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Moome and/or Fury for Barco Data 801s

 
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Arjan




Joined: 26 Feb 2018
Posts: 8



PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Moome and/or Fury for Barco Data 801s Reply with quote


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Hi,

Long time (+14 years) owner of a Barco Data 801s here. It has always served me well and is still putting out a great picture. That is, if I can find a DVD to play which is getting harder and harder so I'm looking for other solutions to feed it with a signal.

I have always used the S-video output from my DVD player going directly into the Barco but I now want to be able to feed it program material from the following sources:

    - iptv set-top box from our cable provider (kpn) which only has SCART with CVBS (composite) and supposedly RGB output but no S-video signal) and HDMI outputs
    - PC or media player with HDMI output


Output is of course to the Barco Data 801s and I would like to get an audio signal to my +14 year old Yamaha receiver either through coax or optical (don't know the model but it does Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1).

Whatever solution I get I don't really want to spend more than say $500 but I would like it to work with all conceivable HDMI/HDCP sources and it would be nice if it could do scaling to make best use of the Barco's capabilities. I've always fed it standard S-video PAL signal but I wouldn't mind using it with something like 1024x768@72 Hz.

Practical issue: the set-top box is right above the Yamaha receiver and I would like to keep it there. The Barco is say 10feet away from there. If I want to runn a HDMI cable from the set-top/received combo neatly it would have to be 15 feet at least.

I'd been looking into the Fury products before but it is not clear to me which of those products will work with HDCP encrypted content. I seem to remember reading that it doesn't work if the input signal is HDCP version ... but I don't see any clear reference to that on their website anymore.

A few weeks ago I found this website again (been looking at it in the distant past) and noticed this Moome input card which should work on my Barco. However it doesn't do scaling and it's not entirely clear to me if it will work with with all HDMI/HDCP sources as I believe some players might demand HDCP 2.x and I don't think the Moome supports that.

So my basic question is should I get:

    - Moome input card (will this work with all HDMI/HDCP versions?)
    or
    - Some Fury product (HDMI->VGA + scaling?)
    or
    - Moome input card + some Fury product (Fury for dealing with scaling and HDMI conversion or HDCP stripping, Moome to deliver the best picture quality from HDMI to analog)


At the moment I'm thoroughly confused by the available options so I'm hoping that someone here has a similar setup and requirements who has gone through this and can offer some advice.

If the set-top box really does have RGB connected in the SCART socket I could perhaps use something like this http://www.js-technology.com/store/product.php?id_product=17 to convert that signal to s-video but I still would not be able to play anything else from a mediacenter or PC and I'd still be watching in standard interlaced PAL resolution.

I'm an electrical engineer btw so don't be afraid to include gory technical details as to why a certain combination would work best.

Thanks,
Arjan
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Tomwhite




Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used an hdfury1 on my Barco 800 for years, worked very well, I think the 801 requires neg. sync just like the 800, you can add a gamma x to the hdfury 1 to invert the sync. I believe all the other hdfurys have the option built in. You can run blurays on it just fine, the difference will be nite and day, I always liked to run them at 720p72. You can also run an Extron 109 box on the output of the hd fury1 to invert the sync, but that may require a long rgb cable. I also had luck with the extron dvi-rgb 150, this will convert dvi to rgb without any of the (ahem) usual issues. Curt and Kal are the real experts when it comes to this stuff, hope this will help. I can guarantee you will enjoy the projector a lot more with the upgrade. Also you can get most of the extron stuff on eBay, i don't think I spent more than 20$ per box. Again I think most of the later hdfurys come with the inverter so this solves the prob. Hope this helps. Tom.
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Arjan




Joined: 26 Feb 2018
Posts: 8



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your reply Tom. Sorry for not checking in earlier, I came down with the flu.

It's good to know you've had good results with a HDFury1. I guess that was some time ago, before they expanded their range of products to what it is today which is a bit overwhelming.

It seems the Extron DVI-RGB 150 is replaced by the new model 200. https://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=dvirgb200 . Seems you need to login to see a price? Anyway, I guess it would just need a simple passive HDMI->DVI converter to work or...?

Is there anyone who can make a comparison between the HDFury solution and a Moome? Seems like a nice solution too (and I'm thinking it might increase the resale value of my Barco if I ever decide to sell it?) but I'm still a bit worried about it not working with newer players that demand a higher HDMI/HDCP version but I guess that is the same with the Fury solutions?

In any case it seems you were quite happy with the 720p scaled output from your blu-ray player with no need for a dedicated scaler so I suppose I can relax a bit about possibly wanting a scaler.
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Tomwhite




Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Arjan, I've never had a moome card but that would be the best solution. Check eBay for the hdfury, remember the Barco takes neg. sync. I believe. Curt or analog rocks could tell you more about it. Trying to get back into crt again since my Sony 1270 went on the blink about 5 months ago it replaced my Barco 800 that broke to the point that it wasn't worth fixing, but I did have for over 10 years,I really miss playing with it, i have dlp in the Ht. Now but it's just not the same, this is more of a hobby to me I've had crt pjs for over 20 years, I think I'm going to try and fix the Sony when I get a chance. Can't wait to converge again. Good luck in the rgb world.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26022
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arjan wrote:
Thanks for your reply Tom. Sorry for not checking in earlier, I came down with the flu.

It's good to know you've had good results with a HDFury1. I guess that was some time ago, before they expanded their range of products to what it is today which is a bit overwhelming.

It seems the Extron DVI-RGB 150 is replaced by the new model 200. https://www.extron.com/product/product.aspx?id=dvirgb200 . Seems you need to login to see a price? Anyway, I guess it would just need a simple passive HDMI->DVI converter to work or...?

Is there anyone who can make a comparison between the HDFury solution and a Moome? Seems like a nice solution too (and I'm thinking it might increase the resale value of my Barco if I ever decide to sell it?) but I'm still a bit worried about it not working with newer players that demand a higher HDMI/HDCP version but I guess that is the same with the Fury solutions?

In any case it seems you were quite happy with the 720p scaled output from your blu-ray player with no need for a dedicated scaler so I suppose I can relax a bit about possibly wanting a scaler.


Pick up a used Extron 202, 202 plus 202 plus MX etc.. on ebay with a VGA input cable as Extron is wierd and uses a DB9 connector for their input instead of the world standard DB15 pin VGA connector. Also grab a 5 BNC cable to go from the Extron to your projector. IIRC the DB9 input on the Barco is NOT wired the same as Extron so that will not work if you have one of those cable already.

Also if using an HDFury1 you wil need a 15 pin F to F VGA coupler to plug the HDFury1 into the VGA cable.

Plug the HDFury into the VGA cable input on the Extron, set EXtron to negative sync for H and V. Go 5 BNC to projector. Then shift the picture to the right using the controls on the Extron box.

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Tomwhite




Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Arjan tom here, you can also use an extron rgb 109 plus which uses a 15 pin connection on the input and a rgbhv bnc connection on the output. This unit will give you neg sync ,and also gives you peak level adjustment for each gun, this came in handy on my 800. It also gives you a picture centering adjustment.you will also need a gender changer to put the hdfury into the 109 box, you can get them for about a buck on eBay.
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Tomwhite




Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Arjan tom here, you can also use an extron rgb 109 plus which uses a 15 pin connection on the input and a rgbhv bnc connection on the output. This unit will give you neg sync ,and also gives you peak level adjustment for each gun, this came in handy on my 800. It also gives you a picture centering adjustment.you will also need a gender changer to put the hdfury into the 109 box, you can get them for about a buck on eBay.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26022
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomwhite wrote:
Hey Arjan tom here, you can also use an extron rgb 109 plus which uses a 15 pin connection on the input and a rgbhv bnc connection on the output. This unit will give you neg sync ,and also gives you peak level adjustment for each gun, this came in handy on my 800. It also gives you a picture centering adjustment.you will also need a gender changer to put the hdfury into the 109 box, you can get them for about a buck on eBay.


I've been looking at the 109, 109 plus and 109 with ADSP on eBay where is the setting to change sybc to negative?

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26022
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:

Pick up a used Extron 202, 202 plus 202 plus MX etc.. on ebay with a VGA input cable as Extron is wierd and uses a DB9 connector for their input instead of the world standard DB15 pin VGA connector. Also grab a 5 BNC cable to go from the Extron to your projector. IIRC the DB9 input on the Barco is NOT wired the same as Extron so that will not work if you have one of those cable already.



Just checking ebay, Make sure it's a 202 Rxi, or an Extron RGB 202 Plus MX/VS

NOT
EXTRON RGB202 PLUS, no setting for negative sync on the PLUS.

Sorry about that.

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HD done right!
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Tomwhite




Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Arjan tom here, the 109 was built to give just neg. sync. It was used basically for the barcos. Who knows why Barco chose to go with neg. Sync.?
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26022
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tomwhite wrote:
Hey Arjan tom here, the 109 was built to give just neg. sync. It was used basically for the barcos. Who knows why Barco chose to go with neg. Sync.?


Ahh I see. That I did not know. I'll have to see if I can find the manual for a 109.

As for the negative sync issue. It is bizzare isn't it?

--------------

EDIT: you are correct. But the negative sync jumper is INSIDE the box according to the uses manual:

https://www.extron.com/download/files/userman/rgb-103-109-112-xi_RevB.pdf

The user-configurable, internal jumpers control the
following functions:
J20: Sync polarity jumper
This jumper adjusts the
output sync polarity. Horizontal
(H) and vertical (V) sync output
can either follow input sync
polarity, or be forced to negative.
If the jumper is on pins 1 and 2, output H and
V sync polarities are forced to negative

----------------------------------------------------

So one of those with a F/F HD15 gender changer and an HDFury 1 or 2 would work on the Barco. Excelent!



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CRT.

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Tomwhite




Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 26
Location: Commack ny


PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info analog rocks , I only used it on the Barco, most of the Sonys will take neg. or pos. Sync. Also I'm waiting to here about a Sony d50 for sale near me, haven't talked to the seller yet just left a message. I have to ask about the remote like you said, also the tube condition. Hope everyone on the forum has a good holiday. Just picked up the last Jedi on 4K will try to watch this weekend.
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