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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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jbltecnicspro wrote:
garyfritz wrote:
That's what I did -- bought a local RS45 for $800. There are lots of deals available on ebay.


Hell of a projector for the money. That's what I love about the time that we live in. We live in an era in which digital projectors are "good enough" to have good contrast and color accuracy. Their convenience (most, if not all natively support 1080p/24, for example), on top of their flexibility are just icing on the cake. And all that for <$1000. Smile

And to clarify, I'm talking the used market. Obviously you ain't gonna buy anything in the league of an RS-45 for <$1000 brand new.

Another interesting thing of the time that we live in. Most entry-level ($1000 or less brand new) projectors cater to the "average viewer" crowd. They apparently like lots of pixels and lots of lumens - quality of the image be damned. Smile


To be fair, you do need a lot of light for a big screen living room set up and HDR.

I do agree though that people are buying into the marketing numbers no matter how they are achieved or the quality of image they put out. One only needs to look at all of the faux-k DLPs that some are saying look outstanding.
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mamawaldee




Joined: 21 Aug 2017
Posts: 17
Location: MI


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know I'm late to the party since my machine was stored for a very long time and now needs parts.

It's a 1208/2 and I'm in need of the EHT, quad and splitter. Especially the splitter, mine is arcing inside.
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tfuller




Joined: 17 Nov 2017
Posts: 22



PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2018 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've only just recently gotten my G90 set up properly in a new location, but have been enjoying it once more immensely. I plan to let it live out the rest of its days in its current temperature and humidity controlled location. Another shoutout is due to Craig for helping get this beast up and running again Very Happy
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I do agree though that people are buying into the marketing numbers no matter how they are achieved or the quality of image they put out.

Yep. It's not just projectors. It's all products. Most consumers are ignorant about what they purchase and look at 'numbers'. The bigger the number the better it must be.

Kal

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I do agree though that people are buying into the marketing numbers no matter how they are achieved or the quality of image they put out.

Yep. It's not just projectors. It's all products. Most consumers are ignorant about what they purchase and look at 'numbers'. The bigger the number the better it must be.

Kal


anyone remember tape decks specks? "Wow and flutter less than .33%" Wow!! Very Happy

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. Most audio (and video) specs have been either been pushed into to be meaningless or were meaningless in the first place.
Example: Something as simple as amplifier watts holds little to no meaning. Or THD.

Kal

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Exactly. Most audio (and video) specs have been either been pushed into to be meaningless or were meaningless in the first place.
Example: Something as simple as amplifier watts holds little to no meaning. Or THD.

Kal


"88dB 1 watt/1 meter, less than 10% harmonic distortion"

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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1335



PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tfuller wrote:
I've only just recently gotten my G90 set up properly in a new location, but have been enjoying it once more immensely. I plan to let it live out the rest of its days in its current temperature and humidity controlled location. Another shoutout is due to Craig for helping get this beast up and running again Very Happy


Mine will be doing same. Instabilities and weird behaviors were eliminated with a fresh Dallas chip. She's purring along nicely in the HT, hopefully for many more years.
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I do agree though that people are buying into the marketing numbers no matter how they are achieved or the quality of image they put out.

Yep. It's not just projectors. It's all products. Most consumers are ignorant about what they purchase and look at 'numbers'. The bigger the number the better it must be.

Kal


Years ago, when I was selling my NEC XG153LC, there was a guy to buy it, he had an EPSON 6600 full HD projector, the guy wanted to browse the net through the projector and he found that on the XG the fonts were too small and hard to read (@ 1080i 96Hz), then it turned out later that he was sending 1024*768 to the EPSON all the time, but hey that was still a fullHD projector... Rolling Eyes

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
"88dB 1 watt/1 meter, less than 10% harmonic distortion"

It's kind of funny that you mention that as I remember (years ago) when I'd look at products if something had a much higher THD than others I would usually give it more credit.

Example: Something with a crazy low THD of say 0.00045% you *knew* was some Japanese made piece of junk that used excessive amounts of negative feedback just to get that number down, while something with 0.1% or similar you knew was built with sound quality primarily in mind (they were not chasing after the numbers).

A lot of that has changed today of course, but the same principles that "numbers tell very little of the story" still hold true.

Kal

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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
"88dB 1 watt/1 meter, less than 10% harmonic distortion"

It's kind of funny that you mention that as I remember (years ago) when I'd look at products if something had a much higher THD than others I would usually give it more credit.

Example: Something with a crazy low THD of say 0.00045% you *knew* was some Japanese made piece of junk that used excessive amounts of negative feedback just to get that number down, while something with 0.1% or similar you knew was built with sound quality primarily in mind (they were not chasing after the numbers).

A lot of that has changed today of course, but the same principles that "numbers tell very little of the story" still hold true.

Kal


I was into car stereo heavy when I was a kid. The radio shack catalog was my bibble. We did all sortss of low end/mid end stuff (Pyramid/ Realistic )for the first 5 or 6 years before we had the money to go into the pro stuff (Pioneer/Blaupunkt/MTX etc)

I would always read the stats. I did the exact opposite of you though. If something said less than 10% harmonic distortion I thought it was probably crap. If it had an ultra low number....well then I started to get excited.

Then at one point I realized, once you are rolling down the road with the windows down on a nice day it didn't really matter. As long as you could crank the music louder than the wind noise without the speakers breaking up it was all good.

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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I came from the 2-channel world so I never understood the idea of sound quality in a place like a motor vehicle. It's both sonically and electrically noisy, has the worst acoustics, and so forth. I get the idea of making a really "loud" car, but sound "quality". That doesn't make any sense. There's no easy or obvious way to recreate the soundstage that the original sound producer of the album was trying to get on tape/record/CD.

Kal

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km987654




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2852
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Radio shack. Now thats a blast from the past.
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jbltecnicspro




Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512



PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I came from the 2-channel world so I never understood the idea of sound quality in a place like a motor vehicle. It's both sonically and electrically noisy, has the worst acoustics, and so forth. I get the idea of making a really "loud" car, but sound "quality". That doesn't make any sense. There's no easy or obvious way to recreate the soundstage that the original sound producer of the album was trying to get on tape/record/CD.

Kal


That's why I still rock my stock Honda sound system. Honestly - with all the road noise intrusion, there's no point. And I sure as hell am not dropping thousands of dollars on deading the sound and making the music more palatable...

Because it's a 2004 and probably would be worth less than the sound system at this point. Very Happy
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jbltecnicspro




Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512



PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaydnG90 wrote:
tfuller wrote:
I've only just recently gotten my G90 set up properly in a new location, but have been enjoying it once more immensely. I plan to let it live out the rest of its days in its current temperature and humidity controlled location. Another shoutout is due to Craig for helping get this beast up and running again Very Happy


Mine will be doing same. Instabilities and weird behaviors were eliminated with a fresh Dallas chip. She's purring along nicely in the HT, hopefully for many more years.


I'd love to have a calibrated G90 in my viewing area. Alas, there's no way in my new living space. When we eventually move out, I may look around at the CRT scene and see what's still happening. But I presume that this is at least 5 years away.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbltecnicspro wrote:
That's why I still rock my stock Honda sound system. Honestly - with all the road noise intrusion, there's no point. And I sure as hell am not dropping thousands of dollars on deading the sound and making the music more palatable...

Agreed! I bought a new vehicle a couple of years ago and there was a B&O upgrade to the stereo that they were asking $4-5K for and I just shook my head reading some of the guys on forums who were talking about how great it is. Think of the non-car audio system you could buy for that! (Not to mention the stock stereo was already pretty darned good in my books: multi-speaker with sub, etc).

Quote:
Because it's a 2004 and probably would be worth less than the sound system at this point. Very Happy

Ha! Wink

Kal

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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I 'upgraded' my stereo in my Mazda3, 2013. Put in amps, subs, and Polk speakers. Found a JBL DSP unit at the recycler that is worth $1200, go figure. It all works, but is it audiophile quality? Hell no! Still, it's better than the stock system was.

Still rocking the 909 stack though. Will get redone over Christmas, with a full alignment and tweaking.
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HaydnG90




Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 1335



PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
jbltecnicspro wrote:
That's why I still rock my stock Honda sound system. Honestly - with all the road noise intrusion, there's no point. And I sure as hell am not dropping thousands of dollars on deading the sound and making the music more palatable...

Agreed! I bought a new vehicle a couple of years ago and there was a B&O upgrade to the stereo that they were asking $4-5K for and I just shook my head reading some of the guys on forums who were talking about how great it is. Think of the non-car audio system you could buy for that! (Not to mention the stock stereo was already pretty darned good in my books: multi-speaker with sub, etc).

Quote:
Because it's a 2004 and probably would be worth less than the sound system at this point. Very Happy

Ha! Wink

Kal


The B&O upgrade in my Audi S4 was only $800. Well worth price of admission vs stock.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17850
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HaydnG90 wrote:
The B&O upgrade in my Audi S4 was only $800. Well worth price of admission vs stock.

That's definitely a bit more reasonable. I just double checked and on my BMW X5 the B&O option is $4900 CAD ($3800 USD) right now. I think it was about the same when I bought ~2 years ago. That's just too much for me.

Kal

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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
I do agree though that people are buying into the marketing numbers no matter how they are achieved or the quality of image they put out.

Yep. It's not just projectors. It's all products. Most consumers are ignorant about what they purchase and look at 'numbers'. The bigger the number the better it must be.

Kal


I think sound repeatable testing can be of benefit. Reading a review like Kris Deerings does give you some number that can give you an idea of what the projector performance should achieve.
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