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Radiance XE bought used high noise? or Setting?
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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Radiance XE bought used high noise? or Setting? Reply with quote


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I just bought a used Radiance XE off eBay. I get a picture but it is extremely poor with massive noise. The screen prompts seem fine but the picture is hashed (see photos). I tried multiple input sources and tried both on plasma and Barco 1209. I tried with and with out a cheap stripper.... I ran through all the menus and did not see anything that changed it.



IMG_6519 (1).jpg
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Both are feeds to a plasma. One is from a MacBookPro, the other from DirectV box (This is MBP)

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IMG_6518 (2).jpg
 Description:
Both are feeds to a plasma. One is from a MacBookPro, the other from DirectV box (Directv)

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was the unit sold as a working unit or "as is". What you are seeing may be because the unit is defective. Have you contacted the seller?

Kal

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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Was the unit sold as a working unit or "as is". What you are seeing may be because the unit is defective. Have you contacted the seller?

Kal


Was sold as fully working:

"I am selling a Lumagen Radiance XE HD Video Processor/scaler w/ HDMI. Unit is in very clean condition and works great. It comes with remote and power cord. If you are looking at this listing I am sure you already know this unit is the flagship of video processing. Please understand this unit does not do 4k but does go up to 1080p. Thanks"

I sent an email to seller yesterday. I have not heard back. If in the judgment of this forum the unit is defective I will request a refund/return.

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do all of the HDMI inputs do this? How about composite/SVideo/component? Do both HDMI outputs do this?

What about resolutions / refresh rates on the input/output side? You tried 1080i/60Hz YCbCr 444 in and 720Hz/60Hz RGB out. Have you tried 1080p/24 in and out directly to your plasma? (I'm assuming the plasma can do 720p). Ie: No scaling at all.

You've already tried a two different displays as the target so that's good. Stick with testing with the plasma and a 'regular' source like a Playstation or something else well understood (and not a PC or something with a billion options available).

The weird dot pattern I have to say doesn't look like anything you should be able to achieve through Radiance settings. If colour spaces are off or depth is wrong, you may get some odd colours or black/white crush or clip, but nothing should introduce a whole pile of dots like that. Weird.

Kal

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try a different HDMI Cable(s). Probably from the source to the scaler, as the menu overlay does't have the interference.

Also, is the scaler plugged into the same AC circuit as the display or do you have a temporary setup with an extension cord from across the room?

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Last edited by AnalogRocks on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Try a different HDMI Cable

Good point. Always good to replace everything to isolate.

That said, HDMI usually works, or it doesn't. This appears like a really odd but consistent pattern.

You could also try sending an short email with a pic of it to support@lumagen.com. They may have seen it before. You'll know right away if it's a hardware issue with the Radiance if you give you a price to fix it.

If you do end up returning it to the seller and need a cheap Radiance (and don't need analog inputs) consider the Radiance 2020 that is now discontinued. We're liquidating the last stock for cheap. See the announcement on our main page here: http://www.curtpalme.com

Kal

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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Try a different HDMI Cable(s). Probably from the source to the scaler, as the menu overlay does't have the interference.

Also, is the scaler plugged into the same AC circuit as the display or do you have a temporary setup with an extension cord from across the room?


I suspected AC ground loop possibilities and did move so they were on the same circuit. I have been suspecting the HDMI cable as well and agree it would be input cable if any although I use them on my regular setup and they were supposed to be 4k capable for the future.

Seller suggested switching to GAME mode where you essentially lose half your lines (1080i > 540P) and not recommended for high quality BUT it did fix the "problem" and there is a clear albeit reduced resolution picture.

Still working it through....

This would seem to eliminate the HDMI cable as the culprit on the input....(or output)

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes and no. The noise you are seeing reminds me af testing I did on a system here, albeit analog, where the interfearance pattern changed with the scan rate.
If you have a diferent cable or even swap 2 cables around, try your 1080i resolution again and see if the interference pattern changes or is eliminated.

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Yes and no. The noise you are seeing reminds me af testing I did on a system here, albeit analog, where the interfearance pattern changed with the scan rate.
If you have a diferent cable or even swap 2 cables around, try your 1080i resolution again and see if the interference pattern changes or is eliminated.


One more thing I see as a possibility; set your input from your source to RGB to match the output. Or set your output to YCbCr to match the input.

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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Yes and no. The noise you are seeing reminds me af testing I did on a system here, albeit analog, where the interfearance pattern changed with the scan rate.
If you have a diferent cable or even swap 2 cables around, try your 1080i resolution again and see if the interference pattern changes or is eliminated.


One more thing I see as a possibility; set your input from your source to RGB to match the output. Or set your output to YCbCr to match the input.


Given my earlier result changing to game mode and getting a reduced resolution but clear picture, do you think there is value here switching the plasma / Lumagen between color spaces? The change to game mode was suggested by the seller so I am wondering if he has a solution that maintains full resolution.

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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Try a different HDMI Cable

Good point. Always good to replace everything to isolate.

That said, HDMI usually works, or it doesn't. This appears like a really odd but consistent pattern.

You could also try sending an short email with a pic of it to support@lumagen.com. They may have seen it before. You'll know right away if it's a hardware issue with the Radiance if you give you a price to fix it.

If you do end up returning it to the seller and need a cheap Radiance (and don't need analog inputs) consider the Radiance 2020 that is now discontinued. We're liquidating the last stock for cheap. See the announcement on our main page here: http://www.curtpalme.com

Kal


I am thinking my CRT days will end in a year or two. The tubes have 3500hours now of which I added 3100. I am limited to 1K. LG OLED screens selling 77" for $9k now and perhaps jump to 90" next year.... that is about what I have here.... so lets see what CES brings Smile I don't want to put more into this set up right now but thanks for the offer....

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Yes and no. The noise you are seeing reminds me af testing I did on a system here, albeit analog, where the interfearance pattern changed with the scan rate.
If you have a diferent cable or even swap 2 cables around, try your 1080i resolution again and see if the interference pattern changes or is eliminated.


One more thing I see as a possibility; set your input from your source to RGB to match the output. Or set your output to YCbCr to match the input.


Given my earlier result changing to game mode and getting a reduced resolution but clear picture, do you think there is value here switching the plasma / Lumagen between color spaces? The change to game mode was suggested by the seller so I am wondering if he has a solution that maintains full resolution.


Yes absolutley try matching color spaces. In the early days of HDMI we use to see that all the time on the PS3 especially, a collor miss match can cause screen oddness.

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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Barry wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Yes and no. The noise you are seeing reminds me af testing I did on a system here, albeit analog, where the interfearance pattern changed with the scan rate.
If you have a diferent cable or even swap 2 cables around, try your 1080i resolution again and see if the interference pattern changes or is eliminated.


One more thing I see as a possibility; set your input from your source to RGB to match the output. Or set your output to YCbCr to match the input.


Given my earlier result changing to game mode and getting a reduced resolution but clear picture, do you think there is value here switching the plasma / Lumagen between color spaces? The change to game mode was suggested by the seller so I am wondering if he has a solution that maintains full resolution.


Yes absolutley try matching color spaces. In the early days of HDMI we use to see that all the time on the PS3 especially, a collor miss match can cause screen oddness.


Ok, seller sent me some info on what died.:

--- "game mode verified something happened to the GF9450 board. I will send you a UPS label and refund tomorrow."-----

So it looks like a broken unit. Thanks to all who were kind enough to offer some great suggestions!!

Another seller in South SF had a unit so I will buy his.

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Barry wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Yes and no. The noise you are seeing reminds me af testing I did on a system here, albeit analog, where the interfearance pattern changed with the scan rate.
If you have a diferent cable or even swap 2 cables around, try your 1080i resolution again and see if the interference pattern changes or is eliminated.


One more thing I see as a possibility; set your input from your source to RGB to match the output. Or set your output to YCbCr to match the input.


Given my earlier result changing to game mode and getting a reduced resolution but clear picture, do you think there is value here switching the plasma / Lumagen between color spaces? The change to game mode was suggested by the seller so I am wondering if he has a solution that maintains full resolution.


Yes absolutley try matching color spaces. In the early days of HDMI we use to see that all the time on the PS3 especially, a collor miss match can cause screen oddness.


Ok, seller sent me some info on what died.:

--- "game mode verified something happened to the GF9450 board. I will send you a UPS label and refund tomorrow."-----

So it looks like a broken unit. Thanks to all who were kind enough to offer some great suggestions!!

Another seller in South SF had a unit so I will buy his.


You gotta love sellers that know their product. Glad you have a resolution to your poor resolution Wink

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone with the exact same issue:

http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2570&goto=20341&rid=0&S=d84da51301f5fc93ecbbbc1eeac99556

Note the comment from Jim Peterson (president of Lumagen) at the bottom:

Quote:
For everyone's reference:

This could be a power supply, but can't tell without testing.

Could be the GF9450 (or its DRAM) gone bad. You can temporarily bypass the GF9450 in your Radiance by pressing MENU 0939. For an interlaced source the image would be half-height since without the GF9450 to deinterlace the image it would be treat as progressive.

Could be something else of course.


P.S. A bit of trivia: The Radiance Pro features much faster switching than previous models as there is no GF9450 deinterlacing chip to have to setup and wait for.

Kal

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Barry



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Someone with the exact same issue:

http://www.convergent-av.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=2570&goto=20341&rid=0&S=d84da51301f5fc93ecbbbc1eeac99556

Note the comment from Jim Peterson (president of Lumagen) at the bottom:

Quote:
For everyone's reference:

This could be a power supply, but can't tell without testing.

Could be the GF9450 (or its DRAM) gone bad. You can temporarily bypass the GF9450 in your Radiance by pressing MENU 0939. For an interlaced source the image would be half-height since without the GF9450 to deinterlace the image it would be treat as progressive.

Could be something else of course.


P.S. A bit of trivia: The Radiance Pro features much faster switching than previous models as there is no GF9450 deinterlacing chip to have to setup and wait for.

Kal


Yup, that is what my seller told me to do (Game mode) and that proved the problem. I hope I don't find it in my next Radiance XE I am getting from a guy in South SF!

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As soon as I saw the images you posted I was going to suggest GAME MODE to test the Gennum chip. There is a known issue where these are failing. It typically only applies to interlaced sources.

Game mode is actually a good fix as long as you don't intend to us the video filter enhancements in the Lumagen as these are disabled. It's also still a good VP if you primarily intend to use it with progressive sources like BD and DVD.

I have an XE unit sitting here with the same problem. Trying to decide what to do with it...

craigr

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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
As soon as I saw the images you posted I was going to suggest GAME MODE to test the Gennum chip. There is a known issue where these are failing. It typically only applies to interlaced sources.

Game mode is actually a good fix as long as you don't intend to us the video filter enhancements in the Lumagen as these are disabled. It's also still a good VP if you primarily intend to use it with progressive sources like BD and DVD.

I have an XE unit sitting here with the same problem. Trying to decide what to do with it...

craigr


I thought about that and so directly connected my MacBook Pro to the Lumagen since I could go between 1080i and 1080p. 1080p produced a much better result but still very noisy. Not usable.

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the re-sale market for these will be limited eh?
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
I guess the re-sale market for these will be limited eh?


Seems like the thing to avoid.....given how many there are out there and how many seem to have this problem, I would have expected 20 forum ppl to say, oh yeah, it is THAT problem. Hopefully the one I am getting tomorrow will not have the issue.

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