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Marquee 8500 - No effect with stigmator setup

 
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Meemil




Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Marquee 8500 - No effect with stigmator setup Reply with quote


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Hey,

I just recently upgraded to Marquee 8500 from my beloved ES Sony and been twiddling with the settings for few days. Everything seems very well laid out but I just can't get the stigmator setup to work. Tried with focus zeroed and contrast maxed but changing the values make no effect at all! I also checked the stigmator amplifier board behind the red tube and it definitely is there with all the 3 leads connected from tubes.

Any ideas with this? Wish the thing just had old school magnets... Shocked

Thanks in advance!
- Eemil
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I would take a look at the Control module (also known as CLM), there is the stigmator waveform generator daughterboard, let's try to reseat it, also you can push the socketed ICs, on the CLM to see if that helps.
Do you have any spare boards?

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^What he said! Smile
There's no special firmware used to upgrade the CLM, so you should be good to go. If it still doesn't work, then either it's an issue on the CLM or the stig board itself. I've got spares of both if you need them.
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noooooo


You are doing it wrong----Focus to 100

See etechvideo website--Tech Tips--- http://etechvideo.com/techtip9.htm
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cmjohnson




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, run focus out until the dots are blobs. Adjust the stigmators for the roundest possible blob.

Occasionally I've seen stig amps that were bad but usually only one channel is out when that happens.
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mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmjohnson wrote:
Yes, run focus out until the dots are blobs. Adjust the stigmators for the roundest possible blob.

Occasionally I've seen stig amps that were bad but usually only one channel is out when that happens.


That's why it's also important when having this problem to unplug the stig amp connectors (all of them) and and do the stig with the connectors un-plugged. This is how you rule out the stig modules as being the problem.
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Meemil




Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjaky wrote:
Hello,

I would take a look at the Control module (also known as CLM), there is the stigmator waveform generator daughterboard, let's try to reseat it, also you can push the socketed ICs, on the CLM to see if that helps.
Do you have any spare boards?


Thanks a lot, the culprit has been found! The waveform generator seems to be completely missing. Also lots of thanks to Curt, Tim, CJ and MP for helpful tips! I'm gonna be in contact with my seller but just in case, if the board is totally vanished, I'd def be interested if you have some laying around, Curt!

Also another little question for you Marquee wizards! I have heard some horror stories regarding the older 8000 HDM board that running 1080p will fry the thing up. Is this true? 1080p is really my goal.

Thanks again,
Eemil
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes there are horror stories about he old HDM, but I'd think that is more related to the board's age as they are approaching 25years, and 1080P is a demanding resolution to any CRT projector, otherwise the design is very similar to the newer HDM in most aspects. The funny thing about the old HDM is that it is easier to make it "more up to date" and cooler running than the newer HDMs...
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meemil, send me an email through the main site.

Overall, I have not seen any age related failures with marquees, I just don't recommend repairing an old 8000 at this point, ditto for the 9000.
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mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meemil wrote:
I have heard some horror stories regarding the older 8000 HDM board hat running 1080p will fry the thing up. Is this true? 1080p is really my goal.

Thanks again,
Eemil


I would stay away from using anything on the 8000/9000 series, with emphasis on the VIM, HVPS and HDM. Those three boards especially and nearly everything else (except the case) required serious remanufacturing, so much so, that they came out with an entirely different model (9500/8500)
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mp20748 wrote:
Meemil wrote:
I have heard some horror stories regarding the older 8000 HDM board hat running 1080p will fry the thing up. Is this true? 1080p is really my goal.

Thanks again,
Eemil


I would stay away from using anything on the 8000/9000 series, with emphasis on the VIM, HVPS and HDM. Those three boards especially and nearly everything else (except the case) required serious remanufacturing, so much so, that they came out with an entirely different model (9500/8500)


so if anyone would like to throw out a M8/9000 HDM just let me know Wink

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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cmjohnson




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the part number(s) of the 8/9000 HDMs you want? I think I have a couple. NOT sure of their functional condition.
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Meemil




Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Meemil, send me an email through the main site.

Overall, I have not seen any age related failures with marquees, I just don't recommend repairing an old 8000 at this point, ditto for the 9000.


Alright, I'll do that! Also, I'm pretty sure HDM is the only 8000 board in the machine. I heard that there's been H-Fails before, so it's prolly just a cheep replacement part from an old machine.

Anycase, I understand the risks of running high resolution through old gear like that, but really am not looking for a new HDM atm. Gjaky, you told about mods for the HDM. Got some quick tips to share how to improve the reliability of board? I'm pretty comfortable with soldering and electronics so mod ideas are always welcome.

And as always, thanks a bunch for the amazing help guys, appreciate it much! Very Happy
-Eemil
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meemil wrote:

Anycase, I understand the risks of running high resolution through old gear like that, but really am not looking for a new HDM atm. Gjaky, you told about mods for the HDM. Got some quick tips to share how to improve the reliability of board? I'm pretty comfortable with soldering and electronics so mod ideas are always welcome.


Here you can find the schematics of the Marquee 8/9000 HDM.
The regular Marquee 8500/9500 HDMs are often claimed to run hot at high scanrates, in it it's stock form this is indeed even worse on the old HDMs. BUT this heat comes from losses in the drive MOSFETS. Thze newer boards use 3 low voltage mosfets in series, while the old design uses 2x4 FETS in series/parallel configuration. With the advances of the semiconductors this 2x4 configuration offes better playroom.
So what I'd do is to remove the old MOSFETS (IXFH10N100) and would put only two (in series) of CREE C3M0065090D SiC MOSFETs. These are basically drop in replacements electrically and they'd reduce the dissipation by a factor of 4 compared to the original FETs. Also the original design (even for the newer HDMs) is completely lacking the damper diodes, only relies on the built in diodes. In other projectors however they use up to 7 additional damper diodes beside what's already in the MOSFETS, so it's not a bad idea to add a few here as well, I1d recommend a few STTH512FP diodes parallel with each MOSFET.
Beside this the power supply filtering would be useful on the HDM like shown in this picture:

Of which circle 2 is less important for regular (ie. non ULTRA) machines. Also note that reference designators are different for the M9000 HDM regarding this picture but you can find this same circuit in the schematzics afterall, so with some creativity you should apply the same mods to it...

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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View user's photo album (1 photos)
Meemil




Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn Gjaky, that's some valuable information and well explained too, thanks a lot man! I'll think about replacing the FETS first and see if that gets me anywhere. Very Happy

- Eemil
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Meemil




Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 96
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Curt, just in case you didn't notice, I've sent you some email! Cool
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