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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 5681 Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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Link Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I did have a few run of boards that had limited light output, and that's one of the reasons I offered the upgrade. Mak's boards were different, he o lay complained about a blue neck board problem, that he sent to me and I fixed it. One of the small series inductors fell off the board. A part I didn't change during the mod process.
After getting his boards the green has a marking on it that says focus problem. Not sure why that was there. I didn't notice the problem after maki g the changes to the boards, but did noticed it when pushing the contrast. And as he keeps saying, he only mentions a problem with the blue neck board. No mention of the green. Plus he forgets he sent me his contrast settings, when I was trying to find out if he had the limited problem. The green blooming problem had been corrected when the boards were here.
Concerning blooming, it could also be caused from weak tubes or low high voltage. And on an older marquee, it could be a number of other things as well. But for sure, no mention of a limited contrast or bllomimg problem was mentioned, just as in his many reports of the blue neck board failure. He never mentioned the green problem, nor was I made aware of a limited contrast. And it was not seen here
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24301 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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I deleted the last two posts. MAK, you have the tracking number that Mike has given you, he sent it to me as well.
Posting more insults isn't going to do anything. Mike has sent you back your boards, you've accomplished what I allowed you to do by posting publicly.
Enough already.
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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racerxnet wrote: | How come nobody has shown his work with a calibrated projector and light output?
Mark |
Well people like me who have MP's VIM's and Kurt's VNB in a fully calibrated set up don't put much value in screen shots. Kurt spent hours playing with different generations of digital camera's (old/new sensors) along with exposure rates/ISO, etc. I have no such desire to go down that path and I've put forth my opinion on this matter previously.
I haven't seen MP's projector since the fall of 2013 at which time it looked quite impressive (even with a messy set up). I've never been a fan of his screen shots and they never factored into my decision. Craig Rounds was the reason I went to meet with Mike and my friendship and partnering with Kurt/Mike is what kept me in the loop despite the hurdles that come with modifying boards.
The only thing (photo related) I've ever been interested in are test patterns which display bandwidth. Your performance on red (from MP's SMPTE shot) looks outstanding. If green and blue look comparable then I'd say you have a first rate set of boards from a BW perspective. Hopefully, light output and other attributes are on par with red channel BW.
Either way it appears you have moved on to a different solution so I expect this is the last we'll hear of this.
_________________ Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 362 Location: Illinois
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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jbmeyer13 wrote: | racerxnet wrote: | How come nobody has shown his work with a calibrated projector and light output?
Mark |
Well people like me who have MP's VIM's and Kurt's VNB in a fully calibrated set up don't put much value in screen shots. Kurt spent hours playing with different generations of digital camera's (old/new sensors) along with exposure rates/ISO, etc. I have no such desire to go down that path and I've put forth my opinion on this matter previously.
I haven't seen MP's projector since the fall of 2013 at which time it looked quite impressive (even with a messy set up). I've never been a fan of his screen shots and they never factored into my decision. Craig Rounds was the reason I went to meet with Mike and my friendship and partnering with Kurt/Mike is what kept me in the loop despite the hurdles that come with modifying boards.
The only thing (photo related) I've ever been interested in are test patterns which display bandwidth. Your performance on red (from MP's SMPTE shot) looks outstanding. If green and blue look comparable then I'd say you have a first rate set of boards from a BW perspective. Hopefully, light output and other attributes are on par with red channel BW.
Either way it appears you have moved on to a different solution so I expect this is the last we'll hear of this. |
Until the boards come back and the components are tested that I am using, the case is still pending. Would you not agree to make sure the components function as should? Other than that I want to move forward with my projector.
MAK
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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racerxnet wrote: | Would you not agree to make sure the components function as should? Other than that I want to move forward with my projector.
MAK |
Well Mike did hold on to these to test thoroughly so after all of this I'd be stunned if they weren't working. I see you have them up for sale. While I understand your frustration I'd highly recommend you keep them. Always good to have working spare neck cards around.
_________________ Projector: Modded 9501LC ULtra- MP VIM, Vold VNB, ETECH LVPS, Silver VIM Cables, HD10F's & a V1 case!
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racerxnet
Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 362 Location: Illinois
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Link Posted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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jbmeyer13 wrote: | racerxnet wrote: | Would you not agree to make sure the components function as should? Other than that I want to move forward with my projector.
MAK |
Well Mike did hold on to these to test thoroughly so after all of this I'd be stunned if they weren't working. I see you have them up for sale. While I understand your frustration I'd highly recommend you keep them. Always good to have working spare neck cards around. |
I am going with the Giaky mods which seem to be better engineered and have correction for the Blue. No need for the MP cards at this time. Thanks to all for keeping this somewhat civil.
MAK
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2790 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: | I really don't want to get into the middle of this but I am going to say that while I have seen compelling proof that in SOME cases, blooming is directly related to the performance of a neck card, when it comes to the Marquee it always will have some bloom at higher contrast levels due to the inadequate focus yokes that Electrohome continued to use even after switching away from Thomson CRTs (which the yokes were designed for) to Panasonic CRTs. (Which the yokes were NOT designed for.) |
I don't agree with this assumption. All classic (unmodified) VNBs badly bloom at high contrast, with only changing the neckboards to the new style VDC in the same machine the blooming is way less pronounced with the new boards, at least this is how I saw...
_________________ projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:22 am Post subject: |
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I stand by my statement because I've TRIED other focus yokes in a Marquee and while every one of them changed the way the machine focuses in one way or another, most of them caused the machine to exhibit little to no blooming at high contrast levels, even leaving the stock neck cards in place and untouched, aside from of course having to remove and reinstall them as part of the yoke swap.
The fact of the matter is that the Thomson focus yokes that are stock on Marquees were engineered to match the Thomson CRTs that
the earliest Marquees were equipped with, and those Thomson tubes were built for a 40KV anode voltage and that totally changes the beam current profile which alters the magnetic field properties required to focus the beam. That dictates a different focus yoke design.
Even then the Thomson focus yokes did not deliver the sharpness even on Thomson tubes that we have come to expect out of our 8 and 9 inch Barcos and Sonys and even, yes, AmPros, too.
Panasonic's "partner" for magnetics was Kanto-Denshi. Electrohome is the only company that chose Panasonic projection tubes that DIDN'T choose to go with K-D focus magnetics, but when Electrohome switched tube vendors they chose not to re-engineer the Marquee chassis to work with K-D magnetics as it wasn't necessary in order to still meet the specifications set forth for their target market, that being the flight simulation market. If it's good enough, why spend the money to re-engineer it to be better when the customers didn't care?
That still doesn't change the fact that Marquees are the weakest performing projectors when it comes to focus performance, of all projectors that use the same Panasonic family of tubes.
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