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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: Anyone still calibrating CRT projectors? |
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So I've gotten my Sony G90 to (I'm guessing) about 70% of the picture quality you can get out of these things and can't help but wonder what it would look like if someone who knew what they were doing came along (for a price of course) and calibrated this bad boy.
Does anyone still do this?
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jbmeyer13
Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Anyone still calibrating CRT projectors? |
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wassup30 wrote: | So I've gotten my Sony G90 to (I'm guessing) about 70% of the picture quality you can get out of these things and can't help but wonder what it would look like if someone who knew what they were doing came along (for a price of course) and calibrated this bad boy.
Does anyone still do this? |
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm located in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. I've gone thru the guide and Sony service manuals but can't quite get the projector to focus correctly.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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Ah! If you're having focus issues that's not really what most would call calibration. Focus is part of initial setup which includes things like physical positioning, geometry, focus, convergence, etc.
Once you get that dialed in you use a specialized smeter and calibration software to do greyscale/gamma/colour. This is the link I provided above. (Before someone else mentions it, yes, defocusing blue is usually done for better greyscale tracking but that's still something I'd consider separate from the initial projector setup and is probably not what you're referring to).
So I take it you're looking for help with all of the above?
Kal
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Last edited by kal on Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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yup help with everything pretty much. I mean I have converged it and am watching movies on there but I feel like it's no where near what it could be.
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Got it - so you're looking for help from the ground up. Hopefully some others can chime in.
Is the projector ceiling mounted? On a mount with which you can slide the projector closer/farther from the screen? Usually the first thing someone wants to do is move the projector closer to the screen as the manufacturer installation guides are sub-optimal. How much tube wear is there? What are the hours?
Kal
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Do you know how to get into the expert and service modes? I'm guessing yes, since you can converge it.
The basic process for getting best focus, or at least the way I do it, is to start with the green tube,
cutoff red and blue, hit MG focus, bring up a grid pattern, and defocus green so that the grid pattern is blurry.
Switch to the dot pattern.
When you defocus, the direction you move focus in determines if the dots will become rings, or if they will become
round blobs with a bright center.
Turn the contrast up to make the shape of the dots clear to the eye.
Work your way down from the 2P to the 6P adjustments, with the idea being that the dots need to be made
into clearly defined round blobs with a bright center at one extreme of focus, and at the other, clearly defined
round rings.
Go through the 2P to 6P adjustments at least twice, in order, just to be sure you got it right, and then, switch to the
E pattern and adjust the focus adjustment on the top of the list for sharpest central focus. Adjust mechanical focus here,
too, if you have not already done so.
Repeat the process in every convergence zone so all the corners are sharp.
Now switch back to the grid pattern and now you will check the scheimpflug adjustment. Go back into MG focus,
and make a note of your focus value. Defocus and look at the width of the grid lines, both horizontally and vertically.
If they are not of uniform width, you may need to adjust scheimpflug (the two hex bolts above each lens) using the wrench
that is stored under the lens hood. Adjust both horizontal and vertical scheimpflug so that the grid lines are of equal width, top to bottom and side to side. Readjust focus to its sharpest value when done.
I've found that looking at the defocused width of the grid lines is the most reliable, and easiest, way to determine if
scheimpflug is adjusted correctly. It's easier when the image is out of focus than when it's sharply focused.
Repeat the process for the red and blue tubes.
Remember to bring the contrast down when you don't NEED it to be that bright to see the shape of the dots in the dot test pattern.
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | Got it - so you're looking for help from the ground up. Hopefully some others can chime in.
Is the projector ceiling mounted? On a mount with which you can slide the projector closer/farther from the screen? Usually the first thing someone wants to do is move the projector closer to the screen as the manufacturer installation guides are sub-optimal. How much tube wear is there? What are the hours?
Kal |
Sorry for delayed response was out of town for the week. Projector is floor mounted. I've done the due diligence in terms of the distance from the projector screen to make sure to use the maximum amount of the raster that I could. I've also squared the projector to the screen. I have checked this literally 10+ times. After doing so I've built the riser around the positioning of the projector so unfortunately that bad boy isn't moving backwards or forwards. I'm not confident about much (lol) but I am confident it is where it needs to be. I've also confirmed these distances/setup with Curt Palme.
There isn't alot of Tube wear maybe 800 hours at this point. That being said these tubes were refurbished by Curt and a new dallas chip placed on the unit, and as we know that resets the hour count on the tubes. So I don't know the actual tube wear but looking at the tubes they don't appear to have any visible wear and tear.
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: |
Now switch back to the grid pattern and now you will check the scheimpflug adjustment. Go back into MG focus,
and make a note of your focus value. Defocus and look at the width of the grid lines, both horizontally and vertically.
If they are not of uniform width, you may need to adjust scheimpflug (the two hex bolts above each lens) using the wrench
that is stored under the lens hood. Adjust both horizontal and vertical scheimpflug so that the grid lines are of equal width, top to bottom and side to side. Readjust focus to its sharpest value when done.
I've found that looking at the defocused width of the grid lines is the most reliable, and easiest, way to determine if
scheimpflug is adjusted correctly. It's easier when the image is out of focus than when it's sharply focused.
Repeat the process for the red and blue tubes.
Remember to bring the contrast down when you don't NEED it to be that bright to see the shape of the dots in the dot test pattern. |
Awesome! K i'm gonna give this another try tonight with the order of events you've given me here! Thanks a bunch! Also there is service and pro mode. The pro gives a few more options in the MGfocus area should I be using that or stick with service?
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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Depending on whether or not the old Dallas chip was copied over to the new one, the timer hours may not have been reset.
When I do a Dallas chip replacement, I have the old chip copied to a new one. This preserves ALL settings, serial number, hours timers, everything.
I do not know if Curt also does that.
Use whatever mode gives you the most control. Set that projector up as far as it CAN be set up. All adjustments in every zone. Only then do you really get the full impact of its picture quality.
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: | Depending on whether or not the old Dallas chip was copied over to the new one, the timer hours may not have been reset.
When I do a Dallas chip replacement, I have the old chip copied to a new one. This preserves ALL settings, serial number, hours timers, everything.
I do not know if Curt also does that.
Use whatever mode gives you the most control. Set that projector up as far as it CAN be set up. All adjustments in every zone. Only then do you really get the full impact of its picture quality. |
The hours were set to zero when I got the projector so it doesn't appear he copied the data from the original Dallas chip and the projector certainly wasn't new. But that's interesting info thanks for sharing :--)
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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wassup30 wrote: | Projector is floor mounted. I've done the due diligence in terms of the distance from the projector screen to make sure to use the maximum amount of the raster that I could. I've also squared the projector to the screen. I have checked this literally 10+ times. After doing so I've built the riser around the positioning of the projector so unfortunately that bad boy isn't moving backwards or forwards. I'm not confident about much (lol) but I am confident it is where it needs to be. I've also confirmed these distances/setup with Curt Palme.
There isn't alot of Tube wear maybe 800 hours at this point. That being said these tubes were refurbished by Curt and a new dallas chip placed on the unit, and as we know that resets the hour count on the tubes. So I don't know the actual tube wear but looking at the tubes they don't appear to have any visible wear and tear. |
Sounds like the throw distance was optimized then - perfect!
Kal
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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What is the distance, across the floor, from the face of the green lens to the screen?
What is the width of your screen?
Normally a G90 has HD10F lenses on it. Are these your lenses?
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jeffslife
Joined: 17 Apr 2010 Posts: 4181 Location: ohio usa
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Link Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Call Craig Rounds. What he can make a pj do is nothing short of amazing. Its been a few years now since Craig calibrated mine all I have done since is a couple quick zone touch ups. I watch mine every day. Worth every cent. It looks like film. I haven't seen a digital that looks like film yet. As an added bonus you get to meet Craig. A great guy.
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: | What is the distance, across the floor, from the face of the green lens to the screen?
What is the width of your screen?
Normally a G90 has HD10F lenses on it. Are these your lenses? |
Ok, sorry it took a day or two to get back to these questions. Lenses are HD10F, distance from across the floor is approximately 131 inches give or take a half inch. View-able width of the screen is 96 inches, height 54.
Going to be replacing the green tube today. Wish me luck :-S After I replace the tube I'm going to try your suggestions for focusing (excited to give it a go!)
Last edited by wassup30 on Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:08 pm; edited 2 times in total
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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jeffslife wrote: | Call Craig Rounds. What he can make a pj do is nothing short of amazing. Its been a few years now since Craig calibrated mine all I have done since is a couple quick zone touch ups. I watch mine every day. Worth every cent. It looks like film. I haven't seen a digital that looks like film yet. As an added bonus you get to meet Craig. A great guy. |
Would love love love to be able to get Craig to come and perform the calibrations but unfortunately he isn't able to come to Canada .... If there are any other suggestions I would love to hear them :--)
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, your setup is good, distance to screen width is pretty much what the book says.
I run a 10 foot distance for an 8 foot screen. (120 distance across the floor, 96" wide screen) and this does a good
job of filling the tube face. You have a little longer throw but the difference is only a few inches and that just means your corner focus should be slightly sharper. Corner focus suffers the closer you get to the edge of the tube face.
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wassup30
Joined: 14 Jun 2017 Posts: 30
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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cmjohnson wrote: | Yeah, your setup is good, distance to screen width is pretty much what the book says.
I run a 10 foot distance for an 8 foot screen. (120 distance across the floor, 96" wide screen) and this does a good
job of filling the tube face. You have a little longer throw but the difference is only a few inches and that just means your corner focus should be slightly sharper. Corner focus suffers the closer you get to the edge of the tube face. |
Ya I kinda remember it being a little further back then the spec now that you mention it but I think I was running into an issue where if I got it any closer because it was floor mounted the angle it needed to use from the ground to screen inhibited me from doing something (can't recall what) I think I had issues fitting the entire image on the screen ... again can't recall the exact issue.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
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Link Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Probably a keystone limit. The closer to the screen the projector is, the more geometry adjustments are needed.
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