CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

If you have a 4K (upscaling blu-ray or real UHD blu-ray) player and a Moome card in your CRT projector,
what is the highest selectable resolution you can choose in the player that can be displayed via the Moome card?

In theory, an HDMI 2.0 player should be able to connect to an HDMI 1.3 device and provide it with all the
resolutions and formats that are supported by the 1.3 spec, but obviously, nothing beyond that point.,

I'm asking because HDMI 1.3 supports up to 2560x1600 at 75 Hz refresh rates.

I've been looking to push beyond 1080p and it seems that this CAN be done with a Moome card and the
right player, up to (maybe) 2560x1600.

So, how high can you go and what model player are you using?

I've searched and found really almost zero documentation on the range of available output resolutions
that these various players have. The online documentation is simply not that detailed.

I'm asking this because this information will be used to help me choose what 4K (native or upscaling) player to get.

gregstv · Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 628 Location: Australia

I think you will need MP to sort out the bandwidth to accommodate this resolution.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

That's Part 2. First I need an answer to the question.

There ARE HDMI 1.3 resolutions above 1080p and I need to know if an upscaling or 4K player will make any of those resolutions
available to a Moome HDMI card. That's the question and the technical details to be addressed later will be addressed later.

Not only that, but there are HDMI 1.3 standard resolutions that are above 1080p and still come in below 300 MHz total bandwidth
so for those of us who already have high bandwidth modded equipment we can start enjoying higher definition rates right away.

In fact, the max resolution of 1.3, which is 2560x1600, still makes it under the 300 MHz video bandwidth limit at 60 Hz refresh.

I say 300 MHz bandwidth limit because so far that's about as far as anybody has pushed the video chain bandwidth to by any means.

There's lots of room to experiment between 1920x1080 and 2560x1600.

racerxnet · Joined: 20 Jun 2007 Posts: 362 Location: Illinois

Why don't you just use a PC to confirm your bandwidth limitations. Seems easier with the required custom resolutions.

MAK

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Because I don't have an HDMI video card for my PC.

jbmeyer13 · Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135

Syncing to higher BW (>200mhz) is certainly possible but the 1:1 resolving power will start to fall apart. Not sure how to measure the trade off between enhanced color bit depth of UHD and resolution loss associated with going above 200mhz for resolutions >1080p at 60hz. IMO, running something like 2400 x 1350 at 48hz is a waste of time because the flicker/judder will be terrible but perhaps this will be right up your alley. I ran some hgiher resolutions when I had Kurt's signal generator last year and that was before installing his vnb's with Mike's boards (I found that as the best combo). Would have been interesting to see how far we could have pushed that; although the linearity coming out of black would have likely nosedived.

This also depends on your tolerance for raster ringing in the image. I have my 03 VIM resolving 1080p/72 with perfect linearity and 1:1 SMPTE (well for a CRT) so it may be possible to to push to an H RES of say 2200 and have relatively minimal resolution loss but the trade off will be raster ringing.

To really figure this out; beside the UHD player you'd need a Lumagen 21xx or the PRO to be able to output a porch adjusted signal to 250mhz. Couple that with properly modded VIM/VNB and you could possibly find a 60hz resolution greater than 1920 x 1080p that would in theory have better color bit performance. It's going to require a good chunk of dough to do this right.

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject:

[pops pop-corn] sits on sofa and watches. (Can't wait to see what comes of this) Thumbs Up

ElTopo · Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608

4K only makes sense with two CRT projectors.

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

This is only about trying it and seeing what it does. There are no great expectations.

gregstv · Joined: 27 Aug 2007 Posts: 628 Location: Australia

On the OPPO you only have one choice with 4K. There are no other output settings for 4K.

jbmeyer13 · Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

You're WAY overcomplicating this.

In order to answer the question I am asking, the sum and total of equipment required is this:

A 4K BD player, whether it's upscaling or true 4K UHD.
A good HDMI cable.
A CRT projector with Moome HDMI 1.3 or greater card.

NOTHING ELSE. Well, power cords, a screen, and electrical power.

The objective is to answer these questions:

What resolutions beyond 1080P are actually supported by the Moome HDMI 1.3 card? The HDMI 1.3 spec allows up to 2560x1600 with a 75 Hz refresh rate. This is the maximum possible answer.

What output resolutions beyond 1080p and not greater than 2560x1600x75 are supported by the player(s) under consideration?

That is the sum and total of the scope of this inquiry. I do not care about what you can do with a PC and powerstrip or a Lumagen processor or any of that. That is entirely outside the scope of this inquiry and I am not at all interested in them for the purpose of this quest.

Giving answers outside the defined constraints of the question won't do me any good. I'm not running an HTPC, and I'm not using a Radiance scaler nor am I in the market for one.

jbmeyer13 · Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Oppo is not the only player. There are people who have Pioneer, Sony, Samsung, Denon, and other brands, or I could buy examples in those and other brands.

If you know that your Oppo player won't do that, then just say so. It becomes a data point.

So, move on to the next player. Who has a Sony, Pioneer, Samsung, Denon, whatever player that fits the experiment criteria?

Aside from what you linked, I've found really NO detailed specifications online that list the COMPLETE list of resolutions supported by any given player. You can't say that there isn't one that supports any or all "standard" resolutions in the HDMI 1.3 spec above 1080p.

jbmeyer13 · Joined: 03 Dec 2010 Posts: 1135

Pioneer, Samsung, Sony and Denon don't have this feature in their current line up. Perhaps some other company does but I doubt it. There's really no market for such a feature so not really surprising.

hal · Joined: 28 Nov 2012 Posts: 100

Chris, I think that as time goes on more options will be available. A inexpensive solution would be a TVONE unit post (inexpensive stripper box). This way you could output almost any resolution that you could come up with.

Disclaimer, I haven't tried it because I am like many am waiting on which 4K blu ray to buy. I think the Oppo and Panasonic are the top 2.. Again this is just my opinion.

Chris I have a TVONE, and I would send it to you on loan.

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:43 pm Post subject:

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Also look at it this way: HTPC is a solution for some people. with CRU we can generate any resolution we want to within the limits of the HDMI card.

So what are the real resolution capabilities and limits of the Moome HDMI 1.3 card, beyond 1080p? I don't have any documentation on that.

**kal** · Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject:

Not sure which Moome card you're referring to, but check the manual. Here's the Sony one:

http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/ifb_fhdv3_v11_20140228.pdf

Which mentions:

Maxima resolution: 1920X1200 75Hz
Analog bandwidth: 1650MHz

Or you can email Moome.

Kal

cmjohnson · Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s

Yes, I did see that in that manual. But it doesn't answer the question that this information immediately poses:

Is that the true maximum capacity for this card? Or is it the maximum that it has been tested at? Has Moome written code in this
card that either enables or disables specific modes that are within the HDMI 1.3 specification?