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Microsoft finaly getting the message on Windows 10 BS?
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 4:54 am    Post subject: Microsoft finaly getting the message on Windows 10 BS? Reply with quote


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I'm on my laptop which I haven't used in a while. It has the Windows 10 nag on it. When I clicked on it I actualy got a choice to opt out! Has Microcrap finaly figured out people don't want to be forced to upgrade to their spyware?



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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone else thing that "Decline Offer" button should read "GO F%^K YOURSELVES!" ? Laughing I think that would be apropriate no?
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cmjohnson



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see NO reason to move beyond 7. It's close to perfect. The default UI of 8 and higher is stupid, especially if you're not using a touchscreen.

I believe that touchscreens are the future, they will be standard equipment on everything soon. What amazes me is that (usually) foward thinking Apple isn't getting that message.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In two weeks, you won't have to worry about MS nagging you to upgrade anymore.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
In two weeks, you won't have to worry about MS nagging you to upgrade anymore.
Nope, they'll just slip it in on you.
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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My main computer upgraded itself without me asking it to. After bitching about it for a week, I actually really like it now compared to Windows 7. Of course, my motherboard died on my 3 year old computer, so I had NO CHOICE but to go with Win 10 when I bought a replacement a month ago.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll just put this here...
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/170151/20160717/microsoft-forecasts-failure-for-its-1-billion-or-bust-goal-for-windows-10.htm

Quote:
About the same time last year, Microsoft made a bold proclamation: the adoption rate for its new OS, Windows 10, would be so high that by mid-2018, 1 billion devices would be running it. Fast forward to Friday, July 15 roughly a year before that deadline and the tech firm has admitted that those estimates were too ambitious.

"We're pleased with our progress to date, but due to the focusing of our phone hardware business, it will take longer" to reach the goal, Microsoft Corporate Vice President Yusuf Mehdi said in a statement. "In the year ahead, we are excited about usage growth coming from commercial deployments and new devices."

For Microsoft, who counts 350 million devices running Windows 10 as of June, the missed goal is a tough break. Since making that promise in 2015, the company has been banking on that statement to try and draw third-party developers into building apps for Windows 10.


Wow, so they achieved almost exactly a whopping THIRD of their target, and they're "pleased with their progress?" By any measure, it's a massive failure.

To be honest, for Apple fans this is a bit of Schadenfreude. For years, we all had to deal with the hegemony that was Microsoft Windows. For years it existed because people could steal software from the office and install it at home, and developers supported only Windows because "so many more Windows machines are sold". Never mind that Windows marketshare figures were vastly overstated with respect to developer support, because a huge percentage of Windows machines were single-purpose computers and never had anything purchased for them.

I kind of like the direction MS is going. Wink

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmjohnson wrote:
I see NO reason to move beyond 7. It's close to perfect. The default UI of 8 and higher is stupid, especially if you're not using a touchscreen.

I believe that touchscreens are the future, they will be standard equipment on everything soon. What amazes me is that (usually) foward thinking Apple isn't getting that message.


No, Apple is delivering exactly the message they want. They just have a different approach, which is to make two platforms, purpose-built for their intended purposes. When you're using an iOS device, everything on it has been designed from the start to be interacted with via touch. When you use OS X, everything on it has been designed to be interacted with via a pointing device and keyboard. MS' offering is a jack of all trades and a master of none, a patchwork of operating system and applications, some of which are touch-enabled and some of which aren't. In short the touch experience ranges from good to crap.

The whole "convertible" thing is akin to trying to make a sports car that can double as a pickup truck. You just end up with something that isn't that good in either department.

Touch just doesn't make for a good experience on a desktop computer, whereas it's a stellar interaction method in a mobile device. There, the iPad delivers a best-in-class experience, no desktop OS necessary.

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Quote:
"In the year ahead, we are excited about usage growth coming from commercial deployments and new devices."

Translation: "We can't get anybody to voluntarily submit to Windows 10, so we'll stick it to them with new devices where they don't get a choice."

ecrabb wrote:
Touch just doesn't make for a good experience on a desktop computer, whereas it's a stellar interaction method in a mobile device. There, the iPad delivers a best-in-class experience, no desktop OS necessary.

If the iPad is a "stellar best-in-class" touch implementation, then touch is IMHO an abject failure. I hate the iPad keyboard -- among other things, its autocorrect and voice input **suck** compared to Android -- and any time I try to select text or do other simple cursor-movement operations, I'm tempted to smash the f***ing thing. If they would just implement left/right arrow keys it would help monumentally, but I'd still rather have a keyboard and mouse.

And that doesn't even address how often the whole "pop up the magnifying glass" feature just DOES NOT WORK and all you can do is position the cursor at the start of a word. Best-in-class, ptui.
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
In two weeks, you won't have to worry about MS nagging you to upgrade anymore.


Unless they offer a **FREE** extension. Anyone want to make a bet on that one?

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El Duderino



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windows/how-stay-on-windows-7-8-forever-how-stop-windows-10-update-3614204/


I've got both win7 machines and win 10 at home and at work. OS X would love to have the MS adoption rate 'failure'.


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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

El Duderino wrote:
I've got both win7 machines and win 10 at home and at work. OS X would love to have the MS adoption rate 'failure'.


That's a nice story, but nobody was talking about overall marketshare. Obviously Windows still has a huge marketshare, and nobody was debating that.

We were talking about the adoption of a new operating system. Microsoft itself said they'd be at a billion installations in a year and have hit just 350 million. Delivering a third of your stated goal is a failure no matter who says it or why. Instead, a year later, Windows 7 still accounts for nearly 50% of the market, Windows 8 another 10%, Windows 10 at under 20% and the ancient Windows XP still sitting at 10%!

As for OS X, of course it has a much smaller overall marketshare - well under 10% at this point. However, about half of all OS X machines were running the latest version of OS X (10.11 "El Capitan") within a couple of months of its release. Nine months since its release, it's running on nearly 70% of Macs in use. That's a great adoption rate.

I'd also point out that overall PC sales have dropped off signficantly. Most PC manufacturers saw a significant decline between 2014 and 2015, while Apple saw a significant increase over the same period. 2016 doesn't look like it's going to much better.

I think we've just reached a point where computers don't need to be replaced as often as they once did. For most of the general-use market, there just isn't that much difference between a brand new machine and one from three years ago.

It's the same with phones and tablets; they're so powerful at this point, they just don't need to be replaced as often as they once did.

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:


I think we've just reached a point where computers don't need to be replaced as often as they once did. For most of the general-use market, there just isn't that much difference between a brand new machine and one from three years ago.

It's the same with phones and tablets; they're so powerful at this point, they just don't need to be replaced as often as they once did.

SC


Wow I'm going to agree with you :0)

The laptop I'm on I got because my netbook didn't have decent audio and my 2006 laptop started freezing, and neither could play 1080p video; that and this one was a restoration project starting at $2 cost me $189.99 with carrying case start to finish. Got it broken at a garage sale for the $2. Bought the parts on ebay and fixed it up. Retailed at $600 plus $69.95 for the case. Who can pass up a deal like that?

Honestly for forums, surfing, youtube, ebay or amazon, most anything from the last 10 years will do. Unless Microsoft installs Winblows 10 on it and cripples it.

Likewise the only reason I replaced my GF's tablet was the old one was running Android 2.1, was freezing and lagging and I got crazy brownie points for the gift "Santa" left her. Laughing

For assbook, email and pinterest the old one was fine except for the annoying freezing and lagging.

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Spanky Ham



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:


To be honest, for Apple fans this is a bit of Schadenfreude. For years, we all had to deal with the hegemony that was Microsoft Windows. For years it existed because people could steal software from the office and install it at home, and developers supported only Windows because "so many more Windows machines are sold". Never mind that Windows marketshare figures were vastly overstated with respect to developer support, because a huge percentage of Windows machines were single-purpose computers and never had anything purchased for them.

I kind of like the direction MS is going. Wink

SC


You mean following IBM into being a services business, where the money is.

I have always found it humorous that Apple fans used to denounce the large software selection on Windows and now uphold that as the competitive advantage for iPhone.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
You mean following IBM into being a services business, where the money is.

If all you have is commodity hardware to sell, and you use an operating system that's exactly like an unlimited number of other competitors' products, then yes - services are where the profits are.

Spanky Ham wrote:
I have always found it humorous that Apple fans used to denounce the large software selection on Windows and now uphold that as the competitive advantage for iPhone.

Apple fans never "denounced a large software selection on Windows." That doesn't even make sense.

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Spanky Ham



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:


Spanky Ham wrote:
I have always found it humorous that Apple fans used to denounce the large software selection on Windows and now uphold that as the competitive advantage for iPhone.

Apple fans never "denounced a large software selection on Windows." That doesn't even make sense.

SC

No, they did. I used to join in when I was on the Apple bandwagon. Basically, they(we) used to say how many programs do you need outside of the basic selection, which was pretty much covered by Apple and a handful of software companies. My best friend used to say it and now he says it about Lamedroid. I personally only use a couple of programs, so software selection has never been a big attraction for me. That is both for the PC and phone.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I didn't get what you meant. Yeah, nobody needed six different word processors, and that was part of what Windows users touted, was that "massive selection" of software, much of which meant a variety of different variations on the same piece of software.

There is one big difference between the Mac vs. PC of yesteryear and the iOS vs. Android software argument now, and that is the quality of the software. Generally, if you pick any one category of app, the best, highest-quality version will be available on iOS. It'll be available there first, the most polished and refined, and it'll just work and look the best. That's not to say there aren't good Android apps, but in general, they're better on iOS.

Android users get all butt-hurt about it when devs release apps on iOS first, but the numbers are widely known, and developers make more money on iOS. A lot more.

You still using a Windows phone?

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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Android users get all butt-hurt about it when devs release apps on iOS first, but the numbers are widely known, and developers make more money on iOS. A lot more.

How can that be? Do iPhone users spend vastly more money per user? The unit numbers I see say Android is crushing iOS.

Gartner says it was 81% vs 18% in 4Q15: http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3215217

Other sources say the same, e.g.:

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
Android users get all butt-hurt about it when devs release apps on iOS first, but the numbers are widely known, and developers make more money on iOS. A lot more.

How can that be? Do iPhone users spend vastly more money per user? The unit numbers I see say Android is crushing iOS.

Gartner says it was 81% vs 18% in 4Q15: http://www.gartner.com/newsroom/id/3215217


The only thing Android is "crushing" iOS on is gross sales numbers. But, when it comes to developers making money on software, those gross sales and marketshare numbers are massively overshadowed by other factors.

I'll see if I can find a recent article, but the graph you posted doesn't show that a huge percentage of Android phones are low-end phones sold to lower-income demographics, and even more of those kinds of phones are sold to less-developed countries were people don't even use credit cards and couldn't buy apps from Google Play even if they wanted to. So, to answer your question, in the aggregate, iPhone users do spend vastly more money per user.

Then there's the problem of fragmentation. Android apologists love to dismiss this point, but it's a very real challenge for developers. Those low-end phones I mentioned? Yeah, there may be a billion Android phones out there, but how many are capable of running a relatively recent version of the OS and have hardware capable of supporting the apps that developers want to support? A fraction of that larger number.

The takeaway is that there just aren't as many Android phones out there as it appears when you look at graphics like the one you posted, at least as far as a developer is concerned.

The numbers I've heard bandied about are that developers make 60-75% more selling apps on iOS than on Android.

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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds plausible. And I see some articles that support it, e.g. http://bgr.com/2015/04/15/ios-vs-android-developers-revenue-apps/

Though that article says iOS users spend "up to four times as much" as Android users. But if the 81%-vs-18% numbers are accurate, 4x higher spend on iOS would still barely match Android...

You gotta wonder why they would bother selling smartphones -- even "dumb" smartphones -- to third-world areas like that. I would think most of those customers are just looking for a phone, not something to play Pokemon Go. A plain dumb feature-phone would be a lot cheaper, a lot more bombproof, and the batteries last a lot longer. Less stress on the limited cell network too. Sounds like a much better product for that demographic.
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