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What would YOU do with a Barco Cine 9 ?
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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pj-toso All Sonys and other brands degrade even CRT, with the Sony you can`t correct back the contrast.
You can correct the gamma drop in the Sony gamma software, but the contrast just keep on dropping.

With Jvc models that support autocal this problem with degrading is no issue .
You get a gamma drop, but can easy be corrected in software, and keep its extreme high contrast.

That's also why you still have After 10k hours, good gamma tracking and contrast 35000:1 in mid-throw.
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tanwn1




Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 60



PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hang my barco cinemax on the ceiling and 2 jvc x700, x7000 below it on shelf. I never miss my crt with the jvc but to have both technology is a bliss.
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanwn1 wrote:
I hang my barco cinemax on the ceiling and 2 jvc x700, x7000 below it on shelf. I never miss my crt with the jvc but to have both technology is a bliss.


This reminds me of car guys. You can have the coolest NEW car and some people will look and say Meh, ok nice. But you show up in the old classic and people are oooing and ahhhing. Very Happy

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CRT.

HD done right!
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw the new JVC last week. Model 7500 (RS520).

Image was ok with dynamic contrast but there was a clear visible pumping when going from
dark to bright and the other way.


After disabling dynamic contrast you can see a significant loss of depth.

Additional to that i saw that the lamp had also a pumping issue.



The JVC was sharp no question about that.


Right before checking the JVC we watched a movie on a Marquee 9500 LC Ultra.


A complete different experience.
Thumbs Up

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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
I saw the new JVC last week. Model 7500 (RS520).

Image was ok with dynamic contrast but there was a clear visible pumping when going from
dark to bright and the other way.


After disabling dynamic contrast you can see a significant loss of depth.

Additional to that i saw that the lamp had also a pumping issue.



The JVC was sharp no question about that.


Right before checking the JVC we watched a movie on a Marquee 9500 LC Ultra.


A complete different experience.
Thumbs Up


FANTASTIC Smile

Did you just remember how great a scene on CRT was?, and watched the Digital box in another environment and place?.
Did you measure anything? Documented something? Watched the same movie? Guess not Smile

You must be good, have to say that, if you come with this kind of statement. You have to document some of it for the fun of it? Because its so stupid to write this and far form reality.

I have image switched Cine9, 909, SonyG70, G90, 1209 with rs500, Sony Vw1000, VW95, VW55, RS600, RS520 and significant loss of depth??? wow Hell no, the Rs 520 will kick and eat any CRT in debt and dynamic big-time. Even shadow detail black in movie. You will easy see that, if seen in the same room, side by side. And extremely sharper compared to CRT like you say, this because of way higher MTF on all digitals NEW today. And don't forget the ansi Contrast might be 3-5 times better on any digital today or more.
Disabling auto iris with reference punch about 14-16 FL you have around 70000-100000:1, Lower punch than that might get way over 100000:1 Do you think you get significant loss of depth whit this numbers???

If you like CRT,,, like it,,, and enjoy it,,, but don't write idiotic stuff like this.

I have borrowed reasontly a Cine9 , and I can guaranty everyone that a JVC or the RS520 is something totally different overall in picture quality today, compared to any CRT. If you wonder just take a side by side.

But spend some time with CRT lately and this is a nice hobby and you get a great image out of them still. Just like I remembered it long time ago.
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm doing both CRT and digital Wink

I have no problem with digitals.

This was just what i have seen inside a batcave home theater dealer room.

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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
I'm doing both CRT and digital Wink

I have no problem with digitals.

This was just what i have seen inside a batcave home theater dealer room.


I see that form your statement written.

A complete different experience. You forgot this "MY OWN OPINION"
Shocked
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure it's always my own opinion.
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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tanwn1




Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 60



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A jvc can do 4k HDR as well and provide a bigger screen than a crt blend with less distortion.
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanwn1 wrote:
A jvc can do 4k HDR as well and provide a bigger screen than a crt blend with less distortion.


If ElTopo prefer CRT let him do so. His choice alone today.
But when he write total nonsense and untrue "even his own" statements this just get silly.
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer a picture which i think is the best for me.

In this case it's not a JVC.


Enjoy yours Thumbs Up

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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say that if some see a rs420, 520, 620 in a store. Most likely its not correct setup, but some might be lucky.
This just the same with a CRT, if you don't know what you doing you get a poor picture.


After about 100 hours on a JVC you get a huge gamma drop that need to be calibrated. So if you saw a JVC with around 80-120 hours on lamp you might have seen a gamma like a hammock. And with 2.2/natural gamma set in the projector might seen a gamma closer to 1,9- 2.0. That wont look good Smile When you are used to a CRT.

And that will not show or give a great reference JVC picture.

This is also why we calibrate any display, and with any new JVC this can be corrected to preference in JVC autocal before the calibration. Usually happens around 100 hours. Positive with JVC you get the same contrast back. The same happens with Sony projectors, can also be corrected in the Sony gamma software, but contrast will drop on the Sony and can not be corrected back Sad
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cmjohnson




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an RS45, and lots of G90s and Marquee Ultras, some more modded than others.

While there are some technically superior aspects to the RS45's image, at the end of the day I too prefer the image qualities of CRT.

I have found that what is really distracting is to watch a computer generated movie, such as Wreck-It Ralph, on both projectors and compare them. Granted, the JVC is sharper and more detailed, no doubt about it. But the "digitally generated" look of the movie goes off the charts, and in this case I really like the more natural feel given to the movie by the CRT projector.

The JVC constantly reminds me that I'm watching a digitally created movie in a way that CRT does not.

It is a subjective assessment. It's my interpretation, not based on meters and measurements.
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km987654




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2852
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmjohnson wrote:
I have an RS45, and lots of G90s and Marquee Ultras, some more modded than others.

While there are some technically superior aspects to the RS45's image, at the end of the day I too prefer the image qualities of CRT.

I have found that what is really distracting is to watch a computer generated movie, such as Wreck-It Ralph, on both projectors and compare them. Granted, the JVC is sharper and more detailed, no doubt about it. But the "digitally generated" look of the movie goes off the charts, and in this case I really like the more natural feel given to the movie by the CRT projector.

The JVC constantly reminds me that I'm watching a digitally created movie in a way that CRT does not.

It is a subjective assessment. It's my interpretation, not based on meters and measurements.


Exactly Thumbs Up

I have been on about this many times. Digital and analog projectors produce their images in different ways. There is no point comparing them. You either like what you see or you don't.
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tanwn1




Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 60



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both a barco cinemax and jvc 4k. With a properly calibrated Barco Cinemax, the CRT is almost as resolving or shall i say as clear as JVC except for the corners which a CRT can't focus as well. Does that mean the JVC is not natural? Far far from it, a JVC with everything set to neutral (no enhancement whatsoever), it is just as pleasing to the eyes with a native film rate of 24hz (bluray) whereas my barco cannot do 24hz unless you use a scaler to play it at 72hz. For a more immersive experience, the JVC can do a big 2.35 screen which is very very addictive whereas the barco you really need to setup a blend to achieve that kind of size which to me is not practical as over the years, the CRT needs to change parts as it's coming to over 20yrs? or more? And I only have one cinemax!!!! If going for a small 16 by 9 screen, i would probably take the CRT, but if you got the space and going for a big 2.35 (more than 80% of movie are 2.35?), I would definitely go for the JVC. By the way, i setup my JVC for a big 2.35 and my cinemax for 16b9. I am enjoying both but my parts count for CRT is down to 1 controller board.
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1607



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the other Cine9 Mr. Green
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cmjohnson




Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a simple way to improve your sharpness in the corners of the image, but possibly at a slight reduction in brightness.

Place spacers between the lenses and the C element. I would recommend using C element clamping rings as the spacers, Marquee ones work fine. By spacing the lens farther away from the CRT, the angularity of the image thru the lens is decreased, and the image is more centered in the lens. The catch is that this reduces picture size for a given throw distance.

I've done some informal experiments and even the best HD-10 series lenses are not as sharp as even a first generation Minolta DLP lens from an early 3 chip DLP projector. But their aperture is too small for CRT unless you are an optical engineer and can build a condenser lens adapter system to make them work with CRTs.

I did this experiment with HD-10 lenses (several types from plain HD-10 to GT17, E, F, HFQ900, and late model VDC HD-10Ls, and with the minolta DLP lens as well as my Nikon camera lenses. No question, the camera lenses are by far the sharpest but their aperture is also the smallest.

Our CRT lenses are already expensive enough, given their very large diameter. Quality optics in larger aperture sizes get VERY expensive, and when's the last time you saw a lens assembly that was larger than an HD-10 outside of some serious astronomical telescopes costing large amounts of money?

Look into the lenses of your CRT projector while projecting a full HD program. Then look at the screen. I'm sure yoiu'll see the same thing I do: The image on the CRT face is sharper and more detailed than you have ever actually seen it on the screen.
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tanwn1 wrote:
I have both a Barco cinemax and jvc 4k. With a properly calibrated Barco Cinemax, the CRT is almost as resolving or shall i say as clear as JVC except for the corners which a CRT can't focus as well. Does that mean the JVC is not natural? Far far from it, a JVC with everything set to neutral (no enhancement whatsoever), it is just as pleasing to the eyes with a native film rate of 24hz (bluray) whereas my barco cannot do 24hz unless you use a scaler to play it at 72hz. For a more immersive experience, the JVC can do a big 2.35 screen which is very very addictive whereas the barco you really need to setup a blend to achieve that kind of size which to me is not practical as over the years, the CRT needs to change parts as it's coming to over 20yrs? or more? And I only have one cinemax!!!! If going for a small 16 by 9 screen, i would probably take the CRT, but if you got the space and going for a big 2.35 (more than 80% of movie are 2.35?), I would definitely go for the JVC. By the way, i setup my JVC for a big 2.35 and my cinemax for 16b9. I am enjoying both but my parts count for CRT is down to 1 controller board.


I will say only very few enthusiast will still say what some say here, and is completely ok Smile Its a CRT topic thread.

Remember 10%-max30% MTF against way over 95% at resolving 1080P is why. WELCOME TO HD Smile

A Barco cinemax is not comparable in picture quality with todays standards in any way perfect, I will say that the only thing the best CRT is better at something over a JVC RS 5xx-6xx is the complete "black" fade to black. A JVC in this range 98% of the CRT with auto iris then fade to black. Even shadow detail is better on digital. And black in movie.

And have to say I if a Cine 9 is better than a digital today???? World is twisted lol. This is so silly.
a digital "show it", "don't like it" keep CRT nothing wrong with that Smile
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redfox001




Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRT still the best period. I would not want a digital even if it is completely free Very Happy LOL.
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Mr Jaeger




Joined: 24 Mar 2015
Posts: 41



PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smile LOL

Enjoy guys
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