Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

MPMODS - my latest
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> CRT Projectors
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!







Back to top
thewolfman




Joined: 28 Mar 2011
Posts: 1311
Location: Sweden


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't comment on the images, I'm not qualified, but yes, they look good!

Thanks for posting and shipping them on calendar too.
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote






Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My best work... Clean and Dynamic.

















Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking to get back to the LVPS and being able to completely turn it off/on. May even kill the fans running when not in use. This and looking at the raster ringing. I have some notes from TSE when I was there some years ago, I'll give a look at.

My neck boards are definitely a wrap, and right now I see no need to do anything else to the two Vim's either.

Still no plans to get back to doing anymore mods until next month, or maybe beyond that. Did however get to wrap up a final work, to include a special projector. So that'll free me up to look at the LVPS and a few other things and get to work on my theater room..Very Happy


Planet Earth Blu-Ray









Back to top
jbltecnicspro




Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512



PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg9518lc wrote:
Like I said enjoying my popcorn. No hate here just love baby just don't imply I have unsubstantiated interest since my name is used in this thread. Wish Nike all the best but I am enjoying my popcorn right now. Carry on


And I'm enjoying these screenshots.

I'm not qualified to evaluate either, but today I finally dragged my desktop out with my 21-inch Trinitron monitor which I calibrated (it's what got me into this whole CRT projector mess, but that's another story). But looking at these shots on a CRT monitor is just another thing altogether. Especially the shots of the (Aztek's?) who are apparently by the camp fire. The warm glow of the fire against their skin with that black background is just... Damn! Cool
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posts deleted. Rolling Eyes
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is definitely my best video chain. The neck boards have a tweak feature that allows them to work perfectly with either the new 02 or 03 VIMs. Can be resistor change, or mini pot. Resistor change is standard with preset value that's set for the VIM that it would be modified to match. Solid and stable as a rock.

The matching Moome card, that I'll be posting more about later, unlike what has been posted that there is a better version done by someone else. I'll post lately why a "better board" statement is not possible with these boards. And I'll also go into what I do and why some things are necessary to even make the right changes to the card.










Back to top
racerxnet




Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 362
Location: Illinois


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
unlike what has been posted that there is a better version done by someone else. I'll post lately why a "better board" statement is not possible with these boards. And I'll also go into what I do and why some things are necessary to even make the right changes to the card.


Mike,

Its your thread, but if you continue to throw water on others who may be trying to provide an alternative , you are asking for the same treatment. This becomes a pissing contest that benefits nobody. Just state the facts of your mods and what they accomplish. WE DON"T CARE ABOUT THE PERSONAL BATTLES.

MAK
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

racerxnet wrote:
Quote:
unlike what has been posted that there is a better version done by someone else. I'll post lately why a "better board" statement is not possible with these boards. And I'll also go into what I do and why some things are necessary to even make the right changes to the card.


Mike,

Its your thread, but if you continue to throw water on others who may be trying to provide an alternative , you are asking for the same treatment. This becomes a pissing contest that benefits nobody. Just state the facts of your mods and what they accomplish. WE DON"T CARE ABOUT THE PERSONAL BATTLES.

MAK



I'm not throwing water on anyone. I'm responding here to an UN-truth that was posted concerning My Moome upgrade. I don't do pissing contest or even mention, discuss any work that anyone else does. And definitely do not speak of anything negative or point out any flaws, mistakes and anything that's not positive about anyone else work. That's not me!

When someone post something very wrong about anything I'm doing, and I'm getting asked about it as if it is true. Then would it make sense to use the thread that I discuss what I'm actually doing to state the facts of what I'm doing?


If someone is trying to offer an alternative, that's perfectly alright with me and I have been clear about that. But when they mention what I'm doing in a wrongful and untruthful way on an open public forum, then that is by US standards an illegal act (libel). It's not just someone posting about their opinion, the postings have been lies for the most part, and when asked to prove what they post, they say nothing. So when not clearing up wrongful and blatant lies on someones product its an attack on the person.


And as I've always said when posting, but did not do so today; "I'm posting this here to answer questions I'm getting elsewhere" And with the comment being made public, I think clearing it up public when it confuses people, shouldn't be an act of trying to start a war with anyone. This stuff is very juvenile as I've said so many time, and something that I would never do to anyone. But when it creates a problem for me, I have a tendency to address it.


Last edited by mp20748 on Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over the years I've mentioned why and what I have been doing to the Moome cards. And have also stated why some of what Ive done was done. Now in order to be able to do these changes, it required that I get my hands of certain test gear. With the main piece for the Moome card making an Electrohome Card slot tester the main device. This device allows the tester to insert the Moome card into the tester and be able to gain access to the outputs of the card and the innards of the card while it is in operation. Without this device, you cannot properly test these cards, nor be able to look at the output while it is in the video chain. And an extender for the VIM could be helpful, but not when with noise and frequency issues. The card would have to be tested totally independent of the video chain.

And here is the bigger part on this statement. The most important reason for the changes are more noise related than they are image related (you'll really need a class on this to fully understand). The noise is usually not seen on the screen, but creates other problems in the video chain...this I've recently talked about. With the biggest benefit in the end result being a better low end performance, to include protection from the neck boards running hotter from trying to amplify a bunch of high frequency noise that is generated on the computer card (Moome). So the DAC (the things that converts the video signal to analog, can also pass very high frequency computer noise directly into the video chain. This problem is two fold, with one being a problem for the video chain, and a possible FCC part 15 (Canadian ICES) violation.

So on the basic RGB analog output of the DAC, a filter would be required. This filters purpose is called "Low Pass" - that means it is to allow the video signals to pass to the output of the card, but block those signals above the video rate. That is the only purpose of the filter, and in most cases it can do well without affecting the video image. In the case of these Moome cards, with or without the right filter in there, you'll not notice a difference in the image. This is the part that some seem to not understand. the filtering really does not limit the performance of the video signal when done right, and there is also nothing you could replace the right filter with that would make the image better. Once the right filter has been determined.

Also, and this is something maybe I should not be posting. But the Moome cards did not all use the same DAC's. They were changing over the life of these cards, and because different DACs were being used, the results would be different depending on the particular DAC being used and what has been done with the associated circuitry. So by having the right stuff to test and knowing how to test for this, is what is really needed to get these cards to their best noise performance level. In my working on these cards, is how I found out there were different DAC's being used. And that was found based on testing and being familiar wit the card itself.

And the reason why I've been telling those who purchased and are purchasing my video chain Mods, that they would have to get the Moome card to me as well, because there are certain noises that should not be getting into the modified video chain. And because of the problems these noises can cause, to include neck boards over heating, I have to make sure it is well understood why right source is connected to the input of the VIM. And is also why, I disable the BNC's on the VIM. And when this is done right and the board are installed right. Placing your finger on the heatsink of any of the three nack boards should never be hot to the touch...
Back to top
gregstv




Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Mike,
Any chance you can tell us what frequency you are seeing noise stat to creep in at?
I don't a a MQ projector but it would be interesting to know if it's possible to apply the same mods to the Barco and Sony Moome cards.
Cheers,
Greg.
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregstv wrote:
Hey Mike,
Any chance you can tell us what frequency you are seeing noise stat to creep in at?
I don't a a MQ projector but it would be interesting to know if it's possible to apply the same mods to the Barco and Sony Moome cards.
Cheers,
Greg.



It really would depend on the projector (or video chain) being used. Not sure how it would be helpful for either Sony G70, G90, Barco) projectors, or even a non modified Marquee.

The higher the bandwidth the video chain, the more this would be a concern. Anything less than 100mhz, I wouldn't worry about. Because at the frequencies of concern, they would most likely be muted before the neck boards, but by not knowing for sure from actual testing on this, it could still be a problem somewhat. But no where near what would be the problem once you get higher up in bandwidth, and this was my concern on my later modified boards and I why I felt a need to look into and correct this problem.


The picture (below) show basically what I've been doing to the cards. This one is slightly different from the previous version, but still basically the same thing.

Here is the science behind this:

Almost all DAC's (Digital to Analog Converter chips) are required to have separate supply (B+/B-) that isolates the digital section from the analog section where it connects to the supplied power rail. And the manufacturer of the chip would have this showing on the chips diagram and Pin outs. And in this country (FCC/part 15) and much like with the Canadian ICES-003) this would be a requirement that the chip manufacturers would all be following.

By separating the analog supply from the digital supply inside the chip, it would help isolate the noise or high clock and computing frequencies that would be common when the chip is processing very fast (high frequency data) on it's digital section in the chip, from getting into the analog section of the chip. This is usually referred to in circuit design as a "Mixed Signal" design/environment. These circuits usually require special consideration for PC board design. And with almost all DAC manufacturers, there should be recommendations in the data sheet that shows what to use, along with grounding recommendations.

So in the picture, I'm following the chip manufacturers recommendation, but have also added a few of my own changes because of the uniqueness of the board design. In other words, I needed to add a few caps of various determined values. On the shown board, I still have a few more caps to add.



Anyway, when I took the video chain upwards of 200mhz, I knew I had to look into the board design and see what was going on with the DAC on the Moome, since these requirements are not universal. And that is when I decided to make these changes and made it a must for any of my later version boards. As mentioned previously, if these changes were not made, a lot of the same data noise from the digital section of the DAC would also be getting in the analog section to include the entire video chain of the projector, and this a strain on the neck boards to amplify frequencies beyond its range, which can cause the neck boards to over heat to some degree and would also muddy/cloudy up an otherwise clean video source. The only other part of concern would be to make sure the right Low Pass Filter is also applied to the analog out (RGB) of the DAC, to strip any data frequency from getting into the analog chain. This filter (low pass) is also determined to let only the pass (video signal) into the video chain.

If anyone want to try this I could later do better to make it easier to understand for DIY.




Back to top
gregstv




Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like the Marque Moome has separate output buffers. The Barco has one buffer for all 3 colours. I don't have any real way of doing measurements. I just chase the cleanest picture with the best blacks and cleanest whites.
I am running AD8009 amps all through the switcher and driver board with extra filtering. also using ferrite inductors on rails. these are 60 Ohms@ 100Mhz. They are rated at 6amps and are a 1206 package. easy to fit and play with. I will replace the 1100's on the neck boards next.
The DACs on the Barco Moome only have a single number on them. I think from memory its 4
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregstv wrote:
Looks like the Marque Moome has separate output buffers. The Barco has one buffer for all 3 colours. I don't have any real way of doing measurements. I just chase the cleanest picture with the best blacks and cleanest whites.
I am running AD8009 amps all through the switcher and driver board with extra filtering. also using ferrite inductors on rails. these are 60 Ohms@ 100Mhz. They are rated at 6amps and are a 1206 package. easy to fit and play with. I will replace the 1100's on the neck boards next.
The DACs on the Barco Moome only have a single number on them. I think from memory its 4



I've not seen a Barco Moome and do find it interesting that it uses different buffers. If going after the cleanest picture and best blacks, the Moome would be a good starting point. And if the original filter (the one that came on the cards) is still there, you should be good on the Moome.

There are however, a few other things you can do to get things better, but they would require very tight soldering and even board trace cuts. But I would also think it would be best to just leave as is, because you're not really pushing the bandwidth where very high data junk could get to the neck boards. On the original and last of the Electrohome version neck boards, there is a jumper right after the mini RCA input on the boards. That jumper was put on a 0805 SMD resistor pad, that was meant for a ferrite bead. That bead was to do the same thing as the low pass used on the Moome. My thought is they never saw higher frequency noise coming form the VIM, so they just put a jumper there.


Replacing the 1100 would be a good start and a much necessary upgrade.
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And the Moome card should have its main supply (+5) not tied into the VIM's filtered 5 volt rail. The white wire shown by-passes the filtered +5 volt rail on the VIM and connects directly at the Vim's main supply.

Likewise, if you look at the previous Moome picture, you'll see the -5 fuse (top left in the picture) with one lead removed from the board and connected to a wire drilled through the same pin hole. That wire connects the -5 volt regulator that supplies the buffers to the -14 volt rail on the VIM.


These are must for high bandwidth video chains..



Back to top
gregstv




Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mike,
Tight soldering is not an issue. I work with 0402 components all the time.
I also understand the importance of the solder filet for high frequency.
I am looking at getting some better test gear at some stage.

The picture on the Barco is looking really good. Very clean and lots of depth.
I really enjoy making changes the the projector to improve performance. It's really my hobby.
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sounds good Greg. When you see "clean" and "depth" you're doing good with getting the right results with the mods.

Now start a thread on your Barco, and post pictures of the video boards in that thread, and let's look at taking even further.



gregstv wrote:
Thanks Mike,
Tight soldering is not an issue. I work with 0402 components all the time.
I also understand the importance of the solder filet for high frequency.
I am looking at getting some better test gear at some stage.

The picture on the Barco is looking really good. Very clean and lots of depth.
I really enjoy making changes the the projector to improve performance. It's really my hobby.
Back to top
gregstv




Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 628
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Will do. The other change I have made is going to a high quality semi ridged coax between the boards. This coax has a full metal outer. It still bend quite well. I put heat shrink over it to make sure it didn't short to anything. This gave much better blacks.
Back to top
mp20748




Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland

TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregstv wrote:
Will do. The other change I have made is going to a high quality semi ridged coax between the boards. This coax has a full metal outer. It still bend quite well. I put heat shrink over it to make sure it didn't short to anything. This gave much better blacks.


Absolutely, and you're right on it by knowing the biggest benefit from the better cable is tighter grounding between the two boards.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> CRT Projectors All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 5, 6, 7 ... 11, 12, 13  Next
Page 6 of 13
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum