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Turn a 100HZ CRT into a 1080i CRT?
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[Frankie]



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 86
Location: Italia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:39 am    Post subject: Turn a 100HZ CRT into a 1080i CRT? Reply with quote


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Hi! I'm here to ask you a question: is it possible to turn a regular 100 HZ CRT into a HD CRT by hardware modifications?
Because i have at home a PHILIPS 32PW9528 which is a 100 Hz CRT with Pixel Plus, Progressive Scan and all that stuff and
there is a function in the service menů that got me thinking, which it's named "1050i/1250i". So searching on the internet (so correct me if i'm wrong) i have found that a regular CRT TV 32' has got more than 2000 horizontal lines printed in the tube.
So i've searched the service manual of my TV and i kinda studied it, and there is a function for VGA/HDTV in the USA/JP chassis.
I tried to force that on the service menu' but without luck. Then i searched the datasheet of the High-end Output Processor (or HOP) that in this case is a TDA9330H. The same IC is used in the HD Prepared Philips TV with HDMI (which i don't remember the exact model). I read also that in the same family of the HOP there are also these ICs: the TDA9331 and the TDA9332 which can process a resolution up to 1280x1024 progressive and has got VGA pins.The pins are the same in the three ICs so i have bought a TDA9332 and i've changed the TDA9330 with it and all seem to work for a standard signal of 576i (since i live in Europe). I haven't tried a to send in a signal a bit more high but since TV can process a 576i 100Hz signal, i guess that the it can handle by itself a bandwidth major than standard 15Khz, am i correct? i mean i know that the 100Hz are not "real" and the signal that comes in is 50hz than modulated to 100hz by adding frames, but anyway the signal that goes to the CRT is a 100Hz 576i signal (or no?) Thanks for any reply!
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15795
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know the complete specs on this TV, but if today it only accepts a 480i SD signal it's highly doubtful that it would have the bandwidth to accept 1080i as it's nearly twice the bandwidth. Lots would have to change, and the manufacturer would not have built anything into the unit to accept higher bandwidths simply to save cost.

Kal

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barclay66



Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1250
Location: Germany

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

In a 100Hz TV, the key technology involved is called frame doubling (sometimes combined with de-interlacing). So, the deflection sytems are designed for double the frequency of 50Hz TVs, i.e. 31KHz vs 15.6KHz (H-deflection) and 100Hz vs 50Hz (V-deflection). Therefore some of the better 100Hz TVs offer a VGA input (800x600 max.) as the corresponding deflection frequencies are close enough. Such inputs are connected to the video chain after the frame doubling circuits. Feeding signals which require higher deflection frequency could either trip the protection circuits or could even damage the TV. The deflection section usually is a well-tuned self-resonant circuit and therefore the operating frequency is critical. Redesigning this section will be a tedious task, if at all possible.
Philips TVs are complex beasts with numerous monitoring and protection circuits, very tricky.
Another show stopper could be the limited bandwidth of the video chain. Don't expect finding more than 10-15 MHz which at 1080i would yield a smeary picture. And there could be a moiré effect if the picture resolution is nearing the dot pitch of the picture tube.
You might get better results with a high-resolution CRT monitor where deflection, bandwidth and dot pitch are designed accordingly. You will have to live with smaller screen size though...

Regards,
barclay66
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing to keep in mind is that CRT tube TVs can't even be given away today (for the most part).

I don't know what it's like where you live, but in North America one only needs to look in the various online classifies to find people giving away big/heavy used CRT TVs, many of which are HD capable (1080i).

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sounds like a fun project.
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[Frankie]



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 86
Location: Italia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi! Thanks for the replies! Now i understand quite better the situation. Unfourtunately i'm from Italy and here there is only a CRT that has High Def inputs which is the the Philips 32PW9551 HD Prepared and there aren't any CRT Hi Def RPTV's or so. I wanted to try this mod for this problem.. It's hard i know, maybe with time and constancy i will make it Rolling Eyes Just for satisfaction also, anyway i guess that the problem it's also in the software/firmware in the Flash Memory, maybe changing it with another one from another model of Philips CRT TV's with 2fh controls (i'm just supposing). Because in the Service Menu' of my television there's a control for picture size, aspect ratio, 2fh controls and for 2 more inputs. The 2fh controls are locked but maybe changing the firmware in the flash would unlock them or by editing some lines of the current firmware. I dont' know, maybe i'll try it out.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15795
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Frankie] wrote:
Unfourtunately i'm from Italy and here there is only a CRT that has High Def inputs which is the the Philips 32PW9551 HD Prepared and there aren't any CRT Hi Def RPTV's or so.

Have you tried searching through Craigs list under the Italian cities/regions to see if anyone's giving one away? See:

http://geo.craigslist.org/iso/it

Have you posted asking if anyone's giving one away?

I find it hard to believe that Italy had no HD displays until HD flat panels arrived?

Kal

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[Frankie]



Joined: 16 Jun 2014
Posts: 86
Location: Italia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried searching on rhe web, in eBay, Kijij or similar but they cost about 600€-700€, and it's the same model that i've told you before which is the 32PW9551 HD Prepared. I've searched also in craiglist bit i haven't found anything..
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15795
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[Frankie] wrote:
I've tried searching on rhe web, in eBay, Kijij or similar but they cost about 600€-700€, and it's the same model that i've told you before which is the 32PW9551 HD Prepared.

I did not mean look for that specific model - I mean any HD capable CRT based TV. That model must be in demand for some odd reason given that it's selling for that much.

Things are obviously different depending where you live in the world, but in North America people old big/heavy CRT based TVs are simply giving them away as long as the "buyer" comes and removes it. Quite a few are HD capable such as the higher end Sony Wega line. Example of a 32" Sony Trinitron that does 1080i, available for free:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Local-pickup-only-Colorado-32-Sony-Trinitron-Color-Flatscreen-TV-with-Remote-/222305844021?hash=item33c275fb35:g:CV8AAOSwoudW4KY~

Kal

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the big E



Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1919
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all of us are giving them away it's just the ones who don't know that crt is better then the new tech.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It depends on your definition of better.
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the big E



Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1919
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spanky if your like case and I you will see my point.

Nothing else works with the older games without making them look like crap plus the light gun from the nes along with the super scope fine only work with crt TV's.

The hd sets look better then the LCD sets that's been on the market even now(minus the top of the line sets)

Not to mention no flat panel I have seen yet does true black.

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the big E



Joined: 20 Apr 2013
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw the one Karl linked to is a older(early model) of the hd crt sets.

Mine are the later 16:9 models(including my projection models) except for one and it's for my older games consoles(nes,snes, n64 etc) the newer consoles are on one of the newer sets.

There is a thrift store that has the older TV's and they do sell them(quite quickly btw) so I doubt that people would get them just to give them away later.

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
It depends on your definition of better.

+1. I have no interest in going back to CRT. The digital I replaced it with is better. More info:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32973

If you're a bargain hunter, I would agree that CRT can be extremely good. Most here would never consider paying $6-10K for a digital.

Kal

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the big E



Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1919
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heck if I did go to digital it would be either Lcos or if the tech is out laser projection with lcos.

I have a sony sxrd set in my bedroom and love the set just hope the lamp doesn't nuke the blue panel anytime soon.

In my home theater along with my classic game corner crt is staying.

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AnalogRocks
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the big E wrote:
Heck if I did go to digital it would be either Lcos or if the tech is out laser projection with lcos.

I have a sony sxrd set in my bedroom and love the set just hope the lamp doesn't nuke the blue panel anytime soon.

In my home theater along with my classic game corner crt is staying.


Did you do the cooling mod for the light engine?

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the big E



Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1919
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
the big E wrote:
Heck if I did go to digital it would be either Lcos or if the tech is out laser projection with lcos.

I have a sony sxrd set in my bedroom and love the set just hope the lamp doesn't nuke the blue panel anytime soon.

In my home theater along with my classic game corner crt is staying.


Did you do the cooling mod for the light engine?


No.(did clean what seemed like a ton of dust out of the set before I even put it into service)

I don't use the set much and keep the fan on high to allow for more airflow.
It was a Sony refurbed light engine I got on eBay literally days after getting the set.

Should I do the mod or will it be ok given I only run the set a half hour to an hour tops each night.

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25451
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the big E wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
the big E wrote:
Heck if I did go to digital it would be either Lcos or if the tech is out laser projection with lcos.

I have a sony sxrd set in my bedroom and love the set just hope the lamp doesn't nuke the blue panel anytime soon.

In my home theater along with my classic game corner crt is staying.


Did you do the cooling mod for the light engine?


No.(did clean what seemed like a ton of dust out of the set before I even put it into service)

I don't use the set much and keep the fan on high to allow for more airflow.
It was a Sony refurbed light engine I got on eBay literally days after getting the set.

Should I do the mod or will it be ok given I only run the set a half hour to an hour tops each night.


I would. As I recall when I looked into it. You needed to cut a vent hole in the light engine and add either a case fan or a fan on the side of the light engine - sorry can't remember which - it was 5-6 years ago I looked into this for a friend.

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the big E



Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1919
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
the big E wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
the big E wrote:
Heck if I did go to digital it would be either Lcos or if the tech is out laser projection with lcos.

I have a sony sxrd set in my bedroom and love the set just hope the lamp doesn't nuke the blue panel anytime soon.

In my home theater along with my classic game corner crt is staying.


Did you do the cooling mod for the light engine?


No.(did clean what seemed like a ton of dust out of the set before I even put it into service)

I don't use the set much and keep the fan on high to allow for more airflow.
It was a Sony refurbed light engine I got on eBay literally days after getting the set.

Should I do the mod or will it be ok given I only run the set a half hour to an hour tops each night.


I would. As I recall when I looked into it. You needed to cut a vent hole in the light engine and add either a case fan or a fan on the side of the light engine - sorry can't remember which - it was 5-6 years ago I looked into this for a friend.


Ok I will look into the mod and how to do it as I have the old light engine to tinker with(bad blue panel) and soon as I can get a helper I will do the mod to the one in the set(sucker weighs almost as much as my crt Sony set.

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crt king of black
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25451
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the big E wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
the big E wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
the big E wrote:
Heck if I did go to digital it would be either Lcos or if the tech is out laser projection with lcos.

I have a sony sxrd set in my bedroom and love the set just hope the lamp doesn't nuke the blue panel anytime soon.

In my home theater along with my classic game corner crt is staying.


Did you do the cooling mod for the light engine?


No.(did clean what seemed like a ton of dust out of the set before I even put it into service)

I don't use the set much and keep the fan on high to allow for more airflow.
It was a Sony refurbed light engine I got on eBay literally days after getting the set.

Should I do the mod or will it be ok given I only run the set a half hour to an hour tops each night.


I would. As I recall when I looked into it. You needed to cut a vent hole in the light engine and add either a case fan or a fan on the side of the light engine - sorry can't remember which - it was 5-6 years ago I looked into this for a friend.


Ok I will look into the mod and how to do it as I have the old light engine to tinker with(bad blue panel) and soon as I can get a helper I will do the mod to the one in the set(sucker weighs almost as much as my crt Sony set.


Yeah the one I was working on had the "liquid blue" panel

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