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My new theater build
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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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jbmeyer13 wrote:
Yeah, I tried a few before I settled on the Bosch. I do always double check things with my regular level to be sure.

I need to pick up some half round for the shelving tonight. I'm going to hold off on staining anything until the rest of the wood work is completed. I'm going to get the components up an running.

I'm going to prime the walls and ceiling and paint the ceiling black. For the side walls I've managed to find the AT fabric that I've always wanted (have a sample in transit) but I'm not sure yet how I'm going to utilize it. Building acoustic panels is one option but I've also seen installs where this covered the walls like wallpaper. I'm assuming that there was some type of acoustic treatments that were recessed into the wall but this is not an area where I've devoted any interest in the past so I'm ignorant as to what the options are.

Any thoughts?


I saw some side walls framed with 2x6 then AT fabric over rockwool sound insulation to absorb the reflections from the speakers. This was a dedicated 2 channel room. The rest of the walls were drywall, painted black with the same AT material over them to match the rockwool wall. Neat, cheap effective.

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greg9518lc



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats the update? How is the build coming along?
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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg9518lc wrote:
Whats the update? How is the build coming along?


I finished up installing sheetrock panels last night; carpenter coming by to do the taping. Ceiling will be painted black, walls likely a dark red and the AT panels will have a burgundy/red color Damask material. The millwork will most likely be a dark stained mahogany but that part will most likely be done after Kurt leaves. For now, I just want to get the paint up to get the calibration right and then do the other finishing details over the coming months.

I'm debating whether I want milled recessed panels on the lower portion of the wall or very large AT panels that are from floor to ceiling.


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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
I'm debating whether I want milled recessed panels on the lower portion of the wall or very large AT panels that are from floor to ceiling.


Sorry I haven't responded to your email, Justin. It was crunch time before CEDIA, and I'm just starting to get caught back up on stuff like personal emails.

Well-done rooms are usually a mix of reflective, diffusive, and absorptive materials. If the room is too absorptive, it'll sound dead, so you don't generally want to use floor-to-ceiling absorptive panels. Smaller rooms need more absorption, though.

Generally, you'll want to treat the entire front wall (behind the speakers) with absorption - Linacoustic. The side walls, you want to treat at least the first reflections, with absorption for multi-channel rooms (use mirror method or CAD). The back/rear wall, a little diffusion is usually a good thing, but it depends on how close you'll sit to it, how far away the source is, and other factors.

As for the acoustic panels, you can buy them from somebody like ATS Acoustics, GIK or Ethan's RealTraps...
http://www.atsacoustics.com
http://www.gikacoustics.com
http://www.realtraps.com

If you want to make your own, you can buy 1x material, build frames, and stretch and staple fabric. You can also use a system like FabricMate...
http://fabricmate.com/fabric-mounting-frame-track

I'm not a fan, but some guys get fabric with images printed on them at SpoonFlower...
http://www.spoonflower.com

There's a guy or two on AVS that are doing it now too since SpoonFlower has gotten anal about copyright stuff, apparently.

BTW, with the "wall-to-wall" fabric, it isn't that they "recess" acoustic materials into the wall. Generally, they build a plain drywall (or double-drywall) envelope on isolation channel. That's the "box". Then, they build out columns and cover them with wood or fabric, and fill in the wall space with absorption or diffusion.

If you do a floor-ceiling fabric system, it does give you flexibility on where you place absorption and diffusion, and you can do it without regard to aesthetics. Generally, if you're going to go that far, somebody will come in and take measurements in the room. They'll measure RT60 (room decay), nodes and nulls, etc. and will custom-tailor an acoustic plan with precise amounts of absorption, diffusion, etc. and where to put it. Then, they'll come back in and measure it after it's installed to ensure it's performing as intended.

Cheers,
SC
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jbmeyer13



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Posts: 1094



PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
jbmeyer13 wrote:
I'm debating whether I want milled recessed panels on the lower portion of the wall or very large AT panels that are from floor to ceiling.


Sorry I haven't responded to your email, Justin. It was crunch time before CEDIA, and I'm just starting to get caught back up on stuff like personal emails.

Well-done rooms are usually a mix of reflective, diffusive, and absorptive materials. If the room is too absorptive, it'll sound dead, so you don't generally want to use floor-to-ceiling absorptive panels. Smaller rooms need more absorption, though.

Generally, you'll want to treat the entire front wall (behind the speakers) with absorption - Linacoustic. The side walls, you want to treat at least the first reflections, with absorption for multi-channel rooms (use mirror method or CAD). The back/rear wall, a little diffusion is usually a good thing, but it depends on how close you'll sit to it, how far away the source is, and other factors.

As for the acoustic panels, you can buy them from somebody like ATS Acoustics, GIK or Ethan's RealTraps...
http://www.atsacoustics.com
http://www.gikacoustics.com
http://www.realtraps.com

If you want to make your own, you can buy 1x material, build frames, and stretch and staple fabric. You can also use a system like FabricMate...
http://fabricmate.com/fabric-mounting-frame-track

I'm not a fan, but some guys get fabric with images printed on them at SpoonFlower...
http://www.spoonflower.com

There's a guy or two on AVS that are doing it now too since SpoonFlower has gotten anal about copyright stuff, apparently.

BTW, with the "wall-to-wall" fabric, it isn't that they "recess" acoustic materials into the wall. Generally, they build a plain drywall (or double-drywall) envelope on isolation channel. That's the "box". Then, they build out columns and cover them with wood or fabric, and fill in the wall space with absorption or diffusion.

If you do a floor-ceiling fabric system, it does give you flexibility on where you place absorption and diffusion, and you can do it without regard to aesthetics. Generally, if you're going to go that far, somebody will come in and take measurements in the room. They'll measure RT60 (room decay), nodes and nulls, etc. and will custom-tailor an acoustic plan with precise amounts of absorption, diffusion, etc. and where to put it. Then, they'll come back in and measure it after it's installed to ensure it's performing as intended.

Cheers,
SC


Hey Steve,

I ruled out the wall to wall aka stretch wall system since I've already sheetrocked everything. Basically, it comes down the following options:

A) Run coffered paneling around the perimeter (from the floor up about 3.5') and then on the upper half of the wall install acoustic panels in between the floor to ceiling columns.

B) Skip the coffered paneling and install larger acoustic panels in between the columns.

From a cost stand point it's likely a wash so the real question is do I gain any performance advantage from one way or the other? I'm leaning towards the coffer paneling from an aesthetic stand point but still haven't made my mind up.

I get the absorption behind the screen wall and diffusion on the back wall but it's really the side which I'm trying to figure out. Do I use diffusion near the back of the side wall or only absorption? How many panels are adequate? How much is too much? What factor will the columns play (they are 10" deep)? The room is 19x 12 so it's small and the ceilings are just over 7'.

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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I'm referring to when I mean floor to ceiling acoustic paneling: http://acousticsmart.com/custom-theatres/the-brookville-custom-theatre/

I can either do this or have the panels only cover the upper half of the wall and have coffer paneling on the bottom half.

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VideoGrabber



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
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Location: Michigan


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
Basically, it comes down the following options:

A) Run coffered paneling around the perimeter (from the floor up about 3.5') and then on the upper half of the wall install acoustic panels in between the floor to ceiling columns.

What level will your ears be at? 36, 38, 40"? Earlier you had said the paneling was going up to 48". My concern is that surrounding yourself in hard-surfaced reflective materials will have a negative acoustic result. It will be too live, and reduce intelligibility. Putting absorbers above, as you indicated, will help tame some of the later reflections, and cut back some on RT60, but not enough.

Quote:
B) Skip the coffered paneling and install larger acoustic panels in between the columns.

That may be a better approach. Also, the panels you install don't have to be 100% absorbers, if that's too much. You can control what you choose to put behind each panel (or sections of that panel). I.e., much greater flexibility to adapt the treatments, as you learn more about how your room performs. To me, that seems like a huge advantage.

Quote:
I'm leaning towards the coffer paneling from an aesthetic stand point but still haven't made my mind up.

I think that may look nicer. At the expense of SQ.

Quote:
I get the absorption behind the screen wall and diffusion on the back wall

You don't necessarily want the entire back wall to be diffusive either. Unless your back row is far enough from the ball, absorption behind the seats (a couple feet above ear-level), along with diffusers on the sides may be a better combination. But I've seen it done both ways, and folks have been happy with the results.

Quote:
...but it's really the side which I'm trying to figure out. Do I use diffusion near the back of the side wall or only absorption?

Diffusion can be used on sidewalls as well. You can use 'engineered surfaces', or 'geometric surfaces'. But to be effective over a wide bandwidth, they need to be fairly deep. Your columns will supply that, to some degree, and fall into the second category.

Also, on opposite side walls it's best to stagger reflection/absorption. If you have reflective surfaces symmetrically on each side, you can wind up with 'flutter echoes'.

Quote:
How many panels are adequate? How much is too much?

These aren't trivial questions to answer. Sad It's actually good if you can find a way to defer some of those decisions until you have a sound system in the room, and can evaluate its performance there. Then you can fine-tune things more effectively than by setting a design in stone in advance, and hoping for the best.

Quote:
What factor will the columns play (they are 10" deep)?

They will act as diffusers, since they break up the incident sound waves, and direct portions of it in different directions.

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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2016 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

VideoGrabber wrote:
jbmeyer13 wrote:
Basically, it comes down the following options:

A) Run coffered paneling around the perimeter (from the floor up about 3.5') and then on the upper half of the wall install acoustic panels in between the floor to ceiling columns.

What level will your ears be at? 36, 38, 40"? Earlier you had said the paneling was going up to 48". My concern is that surrounding yourself in hard-surfaced reflective materials will have a negative acoustic result. It will be too live, and reduce intelligibility. Putting absorbers above, as you indicated, will help tame some of the later reflections, and cut back some on RT60, but not enough.

Quote:
B) Skip the coffered paneling and install larger acoustic panels in between the columns.

That may be a better approach. Also, the panels you install don't have to be 100% absorbers, if that's too much. You can control what you choose to put behind each panel (or sections of that panel). I.e., much greater flexibility to adapt the treatments, as you learn more about how your room performs. To me, that seems like a huge advantage.

Quote:
I'm leaning towards the coffer paneling from an aesthetic stand point but still haven't made my mind up.

I think that may look nicer. At the expense of SQ.

Quote:
I get the absorption behind the screen wall and diffusion on the back wall

You don't necessarily want the entire back wall to be diffusive either. Unless your back row is far enough from the ball, absorption behind the seats (a couple feet above ear-level), along with diffusers on the sides may be a better combination. But I've seen it done both ways, and folks have been happy with the results.

Quote:
...but it's really the side which I'm trying to figure out. Do I use diffusion near the back of the side wall or only absorption?

Diffusion can be used on sidewalls as well. You can use 'engineered surfaces', or 'geometric surfaces'. But to be effective over a wide bandwidth, they need to be fairly deep. Your columns will supply that, to some degree, and fall into the second category.

Also, on opposite side walls it's best to stagger reflection/absorption. If you have reflective surfaces symmetrically on each side, you can wind up with 'flutter echoes'.

Quote:
How many panels are adequate? How much is too much?

These aren't trivial questions to answer. Sad It's actually good if you can find a way to defer some of those decisions until you have a sound system in the room, and can evaluate its performance there. Then you can fine-tune things more effectively than by setting a design in stone in advance, and hoping for the best.

Quote:
What factor will the columns play (they are 10" deep)?

They will act as diffusers, since they break up the incident sound waves, and direct portions of it in different directions.


Thanks for the feedback Tim. I have the front channels and subwoofer set up and have been experimenting with them over the past 24-hours. I'm not running into anything; hence my questions which you've been answering. The other thing that makes the situation unique is that the back wall opens to a hallway. At some point, I'll likely add a door but it will be at the end of the hallway which is more than 35' from the screen.

My first step will be to add some absorption behind the screen wall to see what that does and then take it slowly from there. Your point about staggering absorption/reflection is interesting and I hadn't considered that so I'll have to keep that in mind as I move forward.

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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After 40+ hours of diagnosis, tube venting, part replacement/repair/modification and calibration the video chain is ready for prime time. The black ceiling and screenwall just absorb light and really improve the perceived contrast. Still much to be done but it is coming together.

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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a shot of 3 of the 6 columns I'm going to be installing in the theater. They are made of Sapele Mahogany and will have crown and baseboard moldings once permanently installed in the theater. Two of the six will be hold the side speakers when I eventually expand from a 5.1 to 7.1 set up.


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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First one has been stained; waiting for lacquer

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jask



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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good! How big is your room ? Not to get anal but those columns covering over the baseboard heaters are bad mojo! If you cut them to allow 3" in front and 8" above you should be OK. if you enclose those back faces of the columns that face the heater with a masonry board or cement backer you can maintain the enclosure for the speaker columns. painting the baseboard heater to match the wall will help reduce light refection as well.
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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jask wrote:
Looks good! How big is your room ? Not to get anal but those columns covering over the baseboard heaters are bad mojo! If you cut them to allow 3" in front and 8" above you should be OK. if you enclose those back faces of the columns that face the heater with a masonry board or cement backer you can maintain the enclosure for the speaker columns. painting the baseboard heater to match the wall will help reduce light refection as well.


The columns on the wall with the baseboard heating have slots cut in them to allow proper air flow and am also working on custom baseboard covers to match the columns. As is I haven't needed to really run the heat in the basement and we've had some pretty cold temps. Keeping it cool and dry during the summer is much more of an issue.

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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally have the millwork installed

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Tedd



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looking pretty spiffy! Smile
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Great lighting in that shot!

Kal

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jbmeyer13



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Nice! Great lighting in that shot!

Kal


Thanks for noticing- funny because I used the auto setting on my DSLR. However, I didn't focus on the screen which would have destroyed the exposure.

I;m covering the column grilles with fabric tonight so that finishes up the majority of the work. Have to decide on wall sconces and then on to accoustic testing. I just picked up pristine M&K S-5000's for L/R mains which means I'll swap my 750's to the middle columns for 7.1. I'm figuring the columns should help with diffusion so will be interesting to see how much absorption I'll need for panels in between the columns.

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greg9518lc



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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What brand of chairs are those? Nice job on your theater looks amazing
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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg9518lc wrote:
What brand of chairs are those? Nice job on your theater looks amazing


Thanks. Bought them from midwest seating. Going to put some recilners in front. Should have 7.1 in by monday😀

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PostLink    Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
greg9518lc wrote:
What brand of chairs are those? Nice job on your theater looks amazing


Thanks. Bought them from midwest seating. Going to put some recilners in front. Should have 7.1 in by monday😀

Nice and thanks for the info trying to decide between these and recliners. I am sure it will be nice to finally have the sound match your picture quality

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