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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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 Link Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| xmob135lc wrote: | Look at that URL:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/risky-business/ves-douglas-trumbull-peter-jackson-james-cameron-2001-kubrick-288290
since it's not about some established whimsy stuff, it's necessarily risky , wow. |
Thanks for that link! A very interesting read. Yes, my first exposure to Trumbull was his work on '2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)' [not 2011, as the article wrote]. A truly amazing film, that I as an avid reader of sci-fi had no problem with (I think I was barely in my teens at the time). While others leaving the theater had their minds blown, and were totally confused by it.
I was really intrigued to hear the extent he is taking new developments with all his OWN gear/stage/lights/etc. I really hope his '200-years in the future space epic' project makes it through the development process. That would not only be a major triumph for anyone operating mostly independently (as he is), but I am certain, an extremely thought-provoking and amazing film (sorry, movie) as well.
I did find this quote from Trumbull quite interesting:
> "I wouldn’t want to interfere with the core attributes of 24-frame-per-second movies on screens because it’s great."
But what the heck does HE know? He's just a 70-something 'dinosaur' now.  Who also happens to be willing to push every boundary, including HFR, higher rez, greater brightness, and huger screens. While still being willing to not only accept but embrace 24 fps for most movies. I hope he has a few proteges under his wing, working alongside him, who will learn from and be inspired by his genius, to carry his pioneering spirit forward after he decides he's done.
Right now, it's clear he's fighting an uphill battle against the status-quo.
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- Tim
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | | I simply do not consider it likely that in 20 years most new films will still be shot at 24 FPS. |
You may be right! 20 years is a long time. An entire generation. And a lot can change in that kind of time-frame. And if you had said 20 years at the start (recall that you initially thought it was already being used regularly), we may have had a shorter discussion.  But I'm glad we kept it mostly on a friendly balance.
| Quote: | | What I think is remaining that we differ on is that I believe that higher frame rates for future (digitally recorded) films are going to become more common as time goes on. |
For that to happen, I think we really need to see some examples where audiences actually embrace that type of change. For example, if audiences had come out of the Hobbit 48 fps movie saying, "Wow! That was really amazing! I totally loved what they did there!", then I am 100% certain we would have seen others jumping on-board, to cash in on 'the next new thing'. Because that's how the studios operate.
Instead, the response was predominantly negative, with some saying 'meh', and a handful thinking it was 'an interesting variation'. Which helps explain why there have been no followups in the following 5-year span. However if the next Avatar that comes out employs HFR as Cameron was speculating, perhaps that will move the needle a bit in the direction you are anticipating. And stimulate other movie-makers to be more brave in their choices.
For my entire life 'cinematic' has been a constant, and come to embody a certain set of characteristics that are familiar, which I (and millions of others) associate with the movie experience. That certainly doesn't mean that it would be impossible for Cameron and others to redefine what cinematic meant. We will have to see.
[ Mars Colony 2, StarDate 2037: "Grampa, why are those old movies you've shown us all jerky, and not smooth like our movies are today?" ]
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- Tim
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kal
Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| VideoGrabber wrote: | | However if the next Avatar that comes out employs HFR as Cameron was speculating, perhaps that will move the needle a bit in the direction you are anticipating. |
I think if any movie can help push HFR into getting wider acceptance it would be something like Avatar. All of the 'dream sequences' where the actors are in the dream pods and in control of a Navi body (The blue creatures) is basically a form of virtual reality. I think it would be neat if they showed all 'real world' content at 24 fps and then showed the 'dream world' world stuff at 60 fps.
A movie like Hardcore Henry (a 2015 action film told from a first person perspective) would also be interesting in higher frame rates: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI1Ovh5JnOE
Kal
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 933
Location: Michigan
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| Link Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| kal wrote: | | I think it would be neat if they showed all 'real world' content at 24 fps and then showed the 'dream world' world stuff at 60 fps. |
That's a really cool concept.  I hadn't thought about that type of combination, but I agree that would be very interesting to see. An excellent visual differentiator.
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- Tim
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xmob135lc
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 80
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| Link Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | “One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”
― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark |
so it goes- eye tracking: denied, in another cult flavoured whim
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2790
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:03 am Post subject: |
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The last steps of finishing the mods took a bit longer than expected. While I had good results with my previous design in the XG and with this new board on the bench. But once putting the VNB-DB into an actual Marquee it is picked up a lot of noise from the chassis (even with all ground straps and shieldings on its place). So had to eliminate all the noise sources as well. As it turned out the problem was even two fold.
-Once, the modulator power supply (that generates the power for H-deflection) on the HDM generates (and radiates) a lot of RF noise. Fortunately this was also recognized by VDC around 2008 so they had an improved version of the HDM with added filtering (03-270303-09P (Rev. 6) or newer boards). Barclay66 was kind enough to share with me the details of that mod, it is basically 6 parts added / replaced on HDM, very easy to perform, yet absolutely neccesary for my boards.
-Second, the stand-by section of the LVPS also generates and radiates a lot of noise. This can be veryfied by anyone with an oscilloscope, just probe on ANY power line in the Marquee while the projector is turned OFF but is plugged in, and you’ll see noise on the supply lines! So three coils and capacitors should be added to the power outputs in the LVPS as well.
After performing these modifications the VNB-DB is working as expected:
https://youtu.be/deLBamcPv_8
Later I’ll upload a picture how my unmodified Marquee 9000 neckboard (my test neckboard) can perform with this VNB-DB mod and with an MP modded Moome card at 1080P 72Hz.
I can perform all these mods as well for the already announced price, but shipping these heavy boards back and forth may not be efficient, so I’ll make these mods openly available, so anyone is welcome to perform them.
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Great!
So would You offer some kind of board set (three fully assembled and tested Add-on Boards for the VNBs) plus a DIY description for mounting them and modifying the HDM and LVPS?
If so, I would like to have at least one set!
Regards,
barclay66
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2790
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | Great!
So would You offer some kind of board set (three fully assembled and tested Add-on Boards for the VNBs) plus a DIY description for mounting them and modifying the HDM and LVPS?
If so, I would like to have at least one set!
Regards,
barclay66 |
Thanks Barclay!
More or less yes, but the VIM also needs to be modified to some extent, and I'm unsure if I can let that away. I mean it is not a secret what should be modified there, but several SMD parts needs to be removed while a several others have to be added, flying wires for the interface connector board etc. So I don't know how much I can trust generally who performs those steps and how, it may end up in an endless troubleshooting...
But I can imagine that the customer sending in a VIM, that I modify and send back along with the daughter boards with the additional cables and the customer is welcome to perform the LVPS and HDM mods (I can also include the needed parts as well) along with installing them on his VNB (so no VNB have to be sent here) at a lower price. But I can only instruct installing the daughter boards on VNBs those input section was not modified before...
I may even consider releasing a DIY kit where the customer may get all needed parts and can assemble all boards for himself (with assembly instructions), but that would not be free either, think about 150USD or so (the parts are alone cost 100USD) the small addition is to compensate the labour time for collecting the kit parts together and to honorate my designing efforts somewhat 
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
I'm confident that I would be able to do all the board modifications (VNBs, VIM, HDM, LVPS and what else) myself and to source the parts needed for this. Just for comfort I would like to buy the VNB daughter boards preassembled. Do You think that I qualify for such a 'special kit'?
Regards,
barclay66
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2790
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Link Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | Hi,
I'm confident that I would be able to do all the board modifications (VNBs, VIM, HDM, LVPS and what else) myself and to source the parts needed for this. Just for comfort I would like to buy the VNB daughter boards preassembled. Do You think that I qualify for such a 'special kit'?
Regards,
barclay66 |
Sure thing
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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