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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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 Link Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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I suggest that you perform some extra tests on the machine to verify a number of items that are easily overlooked.
There are four H. scanrate frequency bands. Verify that focus, astig, convergence, and contrast modulation work properly within all four band ranges.
(Super secret service menu, "adjust start pulses")
Verify that convergence adjustments are true left/right and true up/down, without any up/down component in a left/right move,
and vice versa. This may require you to break the glue seal and individually rotate the convergence coil relative to the deflection yoke.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Link Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | Well shoot Eric, your prospect of going was making me want to go more too. I don't know, it has gotten a bit nasty hasn't it.
I haven't met Rocco in person (only spoken on the phone) so that would be a treat as well.
It's also been since Thanksgiving that I last saw Mike Parker so I hope he surprises me and comes.
We'll find out the date and then the names of who's there. Those will be the primary factors for me. I already know pretty much what all these projectors are going to look like 
craigr |
Yeah, I felt this had the potential to take a negative turn.
I know what the pjs look like as well. I like to got to the events to hang out with the other members.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 1:28 am Post subject: |
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Not to worried about pulling it all together and handheld shots are amusing
to say the least. Yes the glue is off and converges properly. Until glycol is changed
It will not matter and I am confident Kurt and Mp will have it where it needs
to be. Since I have seen and owned a lot crt and digitals this will be a different
viewing experience and you all can only speculate on what you think you know.
Look forward to seeing you all at the meet and being able to share something special.
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VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:54 am Post subject: |
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| CIR Engineering wrote: | Well shoot Eric, your prospect of going was making me want to go more too. I don't know, it has gotten a bit nasty hasn't it.
I haven't met Rocco in person (only spoken on the phone) so that would be a treat as well.
It's also been since Thanksgiving that I last saw Mike Parker so I hope he surprises me and comes.
We'll find out the date and then the names of who's there. Those will be the primary factors for me. I already know pretty much what all these projectors are going to look like
craigr |
I've mentioned this to you before, but hope you now understand why I don't attend some of these meets. I would definitely like to make it, but as usual, that depends on who say they are also going.
I can say I do intend to come that way, so taking you up on your promise of hospitality and then also visiting Greg and Mark is definitely on my to-do list.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | Well shoot Eric, your prospect of going was making me want to go more too. I don't know, it has gotten a bit nasty hasn't it.
I haven't met Rocco in person (only spoken on the phone) so that would be a treat as well.
It's also been since Thanksgiving that I last saw Mike Parker so I hope he surprises me and comes.
We'll find out the date and then the names of who's there. Those will be the primary factors for me. I already know pretty much what all these projectors are going to look like
craigr |
I've mentioned this to you before, but hope you now understand why I don't attend some of these meets. I would definitely like to make it, but as usual, that depends on who say they are also going.
I can say I do intend to come that way, so taking you up on your promise of hospitality and then also visiting Greg and Mark is definitely on my to-do list. |
That would be fantastic Mike.
And I'm just egging you on really, mostly sarcasm from me. I really hope you can make it.
craigr
_________________
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
Fully resolved 1080p on a CRT is impossible anyone with some knowledge knows that as most of you guys watch with MTF around 30% at 1080p.. |
Not that it matters much to you but the Sony GDM-FW900 has been tested to fully resolve 1920x1200 pixels. It is not impossible for a CRT to fully resolve 1080p.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Fully resolved 1080p on a CRT is impossible anyone with some knowledge knows that as most of you guys watch with MTF around 30% at 1080p.. |
Not that it matters much to you but the Sony GDM-FW900 has been tested to fully resolve 1920x1200 pixels. It is not impossible for a CRT to fully resolve 1080p. |
Nice post and on point..........
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VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Fully resolved 1080p on a CRT is impossible anyone with some knowledge knows that as most of you guys watch with MTF around 30% at 1080p.. |
Not that it matters much to you but the Sony GDM-FW900 has been tested to fully resolve 1920x1200 pixels. It is not impossible for a CRT to fully resolve 1080p. |
Fully resolved according to industry standard is above 15-20% MTF, a good digital has 90%+ MTF at 1080p normal 9" CRT has around 30% MTF at 1080p.
So I would not say fully resolved according to industry standard is very important...
So for me to say fully resolved is impossible is not accurate, but if you put a 1080p testpattern on a CRT it does not look good at all so to me it does not fully resolve 1080p or even close to it.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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....and you're wrong again.
I'm quite sure that Mike Parker, and a few others, can come along shortly with full 1080p test patterns, VERY sharply resolved, on CRTs, to prove it.
At 4K, you win. At 1080p/2K, no, you don't. Not against the best CRT units.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: | | jbltecnicspro wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
Fully resolved 1080p on a CRT is impossible anyone with some knowledge knows that as most of you guys watch with MTF around 30% at 1080p.. |
Not that it matters much to you but the Sony GDM-FW900 has been tested to fully resolve 1920x1200 pixels. It is not impossible for a CRT to fully resolve 1080p. |
Fully resolved according to industry standard is above 15-20% MTF, a good digital has 90%+ MTF at 1080p normal 9" CRT has around 30% MTF at 1080p.
So I would not say fully resolved according to industry standard is very important...
So for me to say fully resolved is impossible is not accurate, but if you put a 1080p testpattern on a CRT it does not look good at all so to me it does not fully resolve 1080p or even close to it. |
Not sure what the FW900's MTF is but is definitely above 30 percent. Like I said, it doesn't matter to you. Digital is the best and nothing will convince you otherwise. So be it. At the end of the day, CRT is a fine display and you owe it to CRT for being the benchmark that all digitalis were engineered against. Finally, they've arrived, and in some respects, have overtaken CRT. So we all get to have our cake and eat it too. I personally would take a CRT over a digital any day. But then again when my buddies are buying flat panels, I'm not sh*ting on them for their decision. I'm right there with them getting their grayscale perfect.
In the end, isn't it about enjoying the display? And by the way - your tesla may be technically faster, but my corvette has way more personality.
Now... About that meet. 
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | ....and you're wrong again.
I'm quite sure that Mike Parker, and a few others, can come along shortly with full 1080p test patterns, VERY sharply resolved, on CRTs, to prove it.
At 4K, you win. At 1080p/2K, no, you don't. Not against the best CRT units. |
I have seen many from MP modded Marquees and they are not even close to a good digital.
So please post a 1080p pattern that looks even close and I will match it with my RS600 and do it with all tubes not only the green one...
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24301
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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Seriously, you're starting it again? STOP ARGUING!
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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So as much as I'd like to be there (I've never seen any top end projector except a G90), we're due for our second child in the fall. I would have to be one bad father/husband to leave my wife and kids to go to a CRT meet. Haha.
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
I have seen many from MP modded Marquees and they are not even close to a good digital.
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Be honest now, you have never seen an MP modified Marquee, and definitely anything I've been doing lately this past year.
And be mindful that you cannot determine anything by screenshots, because you would have to consider the single chip cameras that's been used to capture what's on the screen. And why you guys on one hand shoot down screenshots and then on the other hand uses them to state facts is beyond reasonable thinking.
So no, I will not post another test pattern, because they have been constantly ignored. And your stamped in brain Barco 1209 is in no way anywhere near what has been going on with the later modified projectors that has been mentioned in this thread.
And since you HAVE NOT SEEN any of the modified Marquees that has been mentioned in this thread, it would only make sense to be quiet. Because in most of your discussions, you have been arguing with someone who presently OWN one of these highly modified Marquee projectors themselves, and this same person has also owned several of the same digital projectors that you keep claiming is better... but even if that's not enough, the person sells them on his job, even the very latest. So at this point, that would make him the ONLY person that could honestly say they have seen the Marquee of discussion and would have both first hand experience with the image of it and the digital projectors you keep mentioning, yet you ignore facts to argue a point you have zero reference to defend.
Again no. No more test patterns because I get tired of the discussions saying the performance level of these "supposed" and "Mystery" projectors have not been verified. And i've posted various test pattern over the months to include one showing the SMPTE pattern at 360mhz. And from a scientific perspective, that should be enough, because it is that pattern that is the BEST reference to prove the point of exceeded (stock) performance. Unless of course, you can also post a shot showing a Barco 1209, or even 909 also do the same with that pattern.
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greg9518lc
Joined: 19 Apr 2016
Posts: 360
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| Link Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:44 am Post subject: |
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[img] [/img]
Of course this hand held shot is a teaser
_________________
VDC 9518LC modded: I do not sell or promote mods only interested in the best PQ possible......
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Andreas21
Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582
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| Link Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| mp20748 wrote: | | Andreas21 wrote: |
I have seen many from MP modded Marquees and they are not even close to a good digital.
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Be honest now, you have never seen an MP modified Marquee, and definitely anything I've been doing lately this past year.
And be mindful that you cannot determine anything by screenshots, because you would have to consider the single chip cameras that's been used to capture what's on the screen. And why you guys on one hand shoot down screenshots and then on the other hand uses them to state facts is beyond reasonable thinking.
So no, I will not post another test pattern, because they have been constantly ignored. And your stamped in brain Barco 1209 is in no way anywhere near what has been going on with the later modified projectors that has been mentioned in this thread.
And since you HAVE NOT SEEN any of the modified Marquees that has been mentioned in this thread, it would only make sense to be quiet. Because in most of your discussions, you have been arguing with someone who presently OWN one of these highly modified Marquee projectors themselves, and this same person has also owned several of the same digital projectors that you keep claiming is better... but even if that's not enough, the person sells them on his job, even the very latest. So at this point, that would make him the ONLY person that could honestly say they have seen the Marquee of discussion and would have both first hand experience with the image of it and the digital projectors you keep mentioning, yet you ignore facts to argue a point you have zero reference to defend.
Again no. No more test patterns because I get tired of the discussions saying the performance level of these "supposed" and "Mystery" projectors have not been verified. And i've posted various test pattern over the months to include one showing the SMPTE pattern at 360mhz. And from a scientific perspective, that should be enough, because it is that pattern that is the BEST reference to prove the point of exceeded (stock) performance. Unless of course, you can also post a shot showing a Barco 1209, or even 909 also do the same with that pattern. |
I have never seen a MP modded Marquee, but your friends have posed several 1080p testpatterns online so I have seen they do not perform as good or even close to a good digital and I would never think they would...
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http://www.minhembio.com/21Andreas
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Tim in Phoenix
Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix
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| Link Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Andreas21 wrote: |
I have never seen a MP modded Marquee, but your friends have posed several 1080p testpatterns online so I have seen they do not perform as good or even close to a good digital and I would never think they would... |
Watch a lot of test patterns do you?
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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The amount of defective thinking that goes into believing that seeing a test pattern posted on a website, as seen from your browser , displayed on your computer monitor, and thinking you're seeing an accurate represenation of what you'd see in person, is absolutely stunning.
You're totally ignoring such factors as resizing, rescaling, and compression.
I COULD take pictures of my machines running, using my 36 megapixel, 3300 dollar Nikon D810 with another 2000 dollars
worth of lens attached to it, but there isn't any way for you to view the full uncompressed 36 MP raw file on this website.
I can't email a picture that big, I could host it on my photobucket account but they limit file sizes for non-paying users,
your computer would probably choke anyway trying to display an uncompressed 36MP image.
So I would have to shoot a smaller image, maybe 12 MP. Still too big. OK, resize it and save it as a jpeg. Now it could
be uploaded, but what you're going to see is going to be a smaller image loaded with compression artifacts. EVERY sharp edge WILL be blurred, that's how .jpg works. So does .png.
You'll never see, on this forum, images that do proper justice to what was photographed.
So don't pay them much credit.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I would argue that my 1800 line Sony GDM monitor could do it partial justice.  But you're right. I really wish that I could attend this meeting, as I've only seen one CRT projector in action - a Sony G90 (no slouch for sure!). I'd love to see this 4K vs CRT matchup. 
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'm currently waiting for a complete set of G90 magnetics to arrive. I already have a set from a 909.
I am exploring the possibilities relating to modifying the magnetics, AND the Marquee driver boards, to make them
run correctly in a Marquee.
If this is successful, it should result in substantial improvements to focus, particularly at high contrast levels, and if I am
able to get this done in time then I would be willing to LOAN the complete set of modded boards and magnetics for purposes
of appearing in this meet.
Since I doubt there's a buck to be made off such mods at this point in the final days of the CRT projector (we all know it's true), then
anything I develop along these lines will be "open source", I'll tell you what was done and no secrets.
But I honestly do not know if I'll have anything to offer in time. No promises yet.
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