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tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland
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 Link Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Aspect ratio:
The most (over 90% for movies) used screen format today is 2.4:1 which is very incompatible with CRT projection tubes (approximately 4:3). The goal is to always use the full width and height of your tubes.
Everything else will decrease the achievable resolution, brightness, sharpness, and tube life.
The best way to use two projectors is a side by side soft edge blend. Which is a complicated procedure.
But trust me in this: Don't part out the second projector, leave it complete.
Use it as a reminder on how to reassemble your other pj if you have to disassemble something during setup (i bet you will).
That's always great.
Use that "first" projector a while with movies, get comfortable with the setup procedure and so on.
That surely can take a while.
And when you are really familiar with the thing after a few months, you can go edge blend and end up with a truly great setup which
won't be beaten by any other setup you could imagine.
2 projector edge blending doubles light output and resolution compared to single projector.
And 2.4:1 will fit natively, because you'll use about 1.3:1 on a single projector (half the width+ 10%) .
Screen:
Also, i recommend not to go with ultra expensive low light screen material (=gain 1 matte white, does not matter how much you pay for it).
Higher gain is the way to go. Will improve contrast and brightness massively, colors will be more vibrant.
I myself use a dirt cheap silver fabric (enables the option of doing polarised 3D setups) from a German cloth store.
PN me if interested.
You'll have to curve your screen for even light spreading, but don't worry. It is quiet easy to do.
I do use two Marquee 9" projectors on a 3,15m (124") wide curved silver screen. Contrast on the projectors is 50%
and that's so bright that you don't need to darken the room to watch the thing.
I hardly recommend a PC as input, because it is the most variable way there is.
Have fun and nice catch, G70s are very good 8" machines.
Regards, Julian
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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Alright so I'm still frustrated with the "Saving the Standard Registration Data" section of the manual. Maybe I'm not getting what it's purpose is. Here's my interpretation of what the manual says...
After adjusting everything in one mode, save the standard registration data so that all modes will now have the same geometric setup information.
Am I correct?
If so, here's the problem. I set everything up and hit Memory and hold for five seconds. At which point the manual tells me the projector should prompt me to save the standard registration (yes or no are my options)... So... Yeah, the projector totally isn't doing that. Why not? Am I doing something wrong? I'm pretty sure my manual isn't for a newer firmware as it still lists the ABG as an option, which I understand isn't an option with the newer firmware. I guess it's not the end of the world, but I'd really like to be able to have a common setting available like the manual says, or implies it should. Thoughts?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24301
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Link Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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Do you have a live input signal going to the set when you are converging and saving? You shouldn't have to hold the save button down for 5 seconds, just press it, and it will save to a memory location. Thing is, you need a running live signal into the projector, as the memories are resolution sensitive. You'll have to do the same setup once for each resolution you use, then it should store each setting into a different memory location, and come back to that set up location each time you use that resolution. If you're running 1080p exclusively, then you only need to do the setup once, but if you have 1080i, 1080p and 720p, you'll need to do the setup three times.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | | Do you have a live input signal going to the set when you are converging and saving? You shouldn't have to hold the save button down for 5 seconds, just press it, and it will save to a memory location. Thing is, you need a running live signal into the projector, as the memories are resolution sensitive. You'll have to do the same setup once for each resolution you use, then it should store each setting into a different memory location, and come back to that set up location each time you use that resolution. If you're running 1080p exclusively, then you only need to do the setup once, but if you have 1080i, 1080p and 720p, you'll need to do the setup three times. |
No, I didn't have a live signal running to the projector. I understand that the projector is resolution sensitive. The GDM CRT monitors behave in a similar fashion. When I hit "Memory" - it saves it no problem. But the problem I'm having is with this procedure from the manual, verbatim:
"Saving the Standard Registration Data
After adjusting all the registrations for the green, red, and blue signals, save the adjustment data as the standard data for the projector.
1. Hold down the MEMORY key for more than 5 seconds. The adjustment data is saved in the memory as the data for the frequency selected in the INT. OSC PATTERN of the SERVIC SETTING menu, and the projector enters the standard data saving mode.
2. Press the (down arrow) or (up arrow) to select YES, then press the ENTER key. All the registration data will be converted into internal signal data and are saved as standard data."
EDIT: Here's what the prompt says:
"The registration data will be used as standard for all inputs OK?"
^^^
That's the part I'm having trouble with. The projector simply won't do it. But I may be misreading its purpose and I'm probably spinning my wheels. Thanks for your response Curt. Sorry - I swear I'm not trying to be a stubborn ass. 
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24301
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Link Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 1:10 am Post subject: |
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What, me read the instructions? 
I've never done it that way. Try some very basic geometry settings, like 5 minutes worth with a signal running into it. then save it. Power down, unplug the projector for 10 minutes, then power back up. If your settings are saved, then I'd just do it my way, and forget about the 'standard registration' data.
If it doesn't save it, then on either the YA or Yb board is what's called a Dallas memory chip. I've never had them fail on a G70, but there's always a first time..
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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: |
If so, here's the problem. I set everything up and hit Memory and hold for five seconds. At which point the manual tells me the projector should prompt me to save the standard registration (yes or no are my options)... So... Yeah, the projector totally isn't doing that. Why not? |
Because in my experience the manual is not completely accurate. Hold MEM for at least 15 seconds maybe longer. The screen will flash the text "memory saved" when it does just that.
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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:29 pm Post subject: |
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With today's 720p/1080p I setup MEM #3 (OSC 3) and save as all reg data, then go back to MEM1 (OSC 1). I believe the warm up screen/menu pulls from MEM1.
If you intend on 1080p perhaps save MEM #4 to all.
If the set is not factory original I would zero out all zone and set mid range (128) all other settings rather than reset to factory before the initial registration setup.
Like mentioned in the other posts don't spend too much time with registration using the internal patterns and oscillator, doesn't need to be perfect here.
When you input test patterns from your source device here is were you optimize everything.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| AFryia wrote: | With today's 720p/1080p I setup MEM #3 (OSC 3) and save as all reg data, then go back to MEM1 (OSC 1). I believe the warm up screen/menu pulls from MEM1.
If you intend on 1080p perhaps save MEM #4 to all.
If the set is not factory original I would zero out all zone and set mid range (128) all other settings rather than reset to factory before the initial registration setup.
Like mentioned in the other posts don't spend too much time with registration using the internal patterns and oscillator, doesn't need to be perfect here.
When you input test patterns from your source device here is were you optimize everything. |
Thank you for your input. I'll try it again later. Still debating on whether or not I'm doing a ceiling mount or floor. I want to go ceiling so that I can get a good sized screen in the room.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Curt Palme wrote: | What, me read the instructions?
I've never done it that way. Try some very basic geometry settings, like 5 minutes worth with a signal running into it. then save it. Power down, unplug the projector for 10 minutes, then power back up. If your settings are saved, then I'd just do it my way, and forget about the 'standard registration' data.
If it doesn't save it, then on either the YA or Yb board is what's called a Dallas memory chip. I've never had them fail on a G70, but there's always a first time.. |
Thanks for the input Curt. It saves everything just fine. I'll mess around with the projector as advised by AFryia, but if I cannot get it working, I'll write the functionality off.
Now, personal opinion question...
I did a white window pattern on my brown wall and no screen. At 75 contrast, I measured 10 foot lamberts. I'm sure that with a white screen, it would likely be brighter. This is with the 8200 hour tubes. I was thinking that if I went ceiling mount, I'd pull the tubes (at least the green and blue ones) and replace them with the ones in the non-working projector, which look to have very light wear on them.
In this situation, would you swap the tubes and then set the projector up?
You see, we don't watch movies constantly - I'm talking maybe once a week. Assuming we watch a four-hour movie every weekend, that's 1000 weekends before we hit the 4000 hour mark. Dividing that number by 52 weeks per year - that's almost twenty years! Cut that number in half for good measure, and I'll be almost forty before we hit that number. The conservationist in me wants to conserve these tubes because P16's are expensive to acquire. But I'm thinking that this is a foolish line of thinking and that I should just enjoy the damn projector.
So...
How easy are the tubes to swap? I see you have a little guide in your setup guide. If I pull the tubes from the non-working projector - electronics and all (deflection yokes, etc) - is it more-or-less a plug and play operation? Obviously, I'll need to adjust the centering and sizing, and geometry controls. But other than that, is there anything else that needs to be done?
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:58 am Post subject: |
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Just swapped the red tube. It's working just fine. Not as hard as I was thinking it is. Virtually plug and play.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Swapped both blue and green. Wow!! Incredible difference! Me getting excited.
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dochlywd
Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Saint Louis, Missouri
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| Link Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:36 am Post subject: |
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Now you are talking!!!! You will love that machine once you get it all dialed in!!!! I was hoping you were going to end up doing the tube swap!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Link Posted: Thu Jun 23, 2016 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| dochlywd wrote: | | Now you are talking!!!! You will love that machine once you get it all dialed in!!!! I was hoping you were going to end up doing the tube swap! |
AND the ceiling mount, especially since you already have the mount. Sitting in a circle, around a a lawn-mower sized machine in your home theater sucks. 
Oh and paint the ceiling and screen wall a dark color, huge contrast benefits
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:42 am Post subject: |
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Okay,
Just did a little bit of measuring and the PSS-70 mount isn't big enough to cover the span of of two of our ceiling joists. So I think that the included ceiling mount won't work as-is. However... I think that if we run two rails across three joists and then mount the mount against those rails, then we'd be okay. This will add flexibility to the placement of the projector.
After doing the tube swap, I'm still noticing retrace lines when using ABG. I've also noticed an odd phenomenon when cranking up the brightness (not contrast - but the black level). The left portion of the green and blue tubes goes "dark". I may have to take pictures to convey what's going on.
Any suggestions? I have another projector for parts so if I need to change an RGB board or something, let me know. I swapped a neckboard on green and it did not fix the issue one iota.
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AFryia
Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q
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| Link Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:38 am Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: |
Just did a little bit of measuring and the PSS-70 mount isn't big enough to cover the span of of two of our ceiling joists. So I think that the included ceiling mount won't work as-is. However... I think that if we run two rails across three joists and then mount the mount against those rails, then we'd be okay. This will add flexibility to the placement of the projector.
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Just use two pieces of Uni-Strut and T nuts. You can slide back and forth along the rails.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1307
[img]http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1307[/img]
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| AFryia wrote: | | jbltecnicspro wrote: |
Just did a little bit of measuring and the PSS-70 mount isn't big enough to cover the span of of two of our ceiling joists. So I think that the included ceiling mount won't work as-is. However... I think that if we run two rails across three joists and then mount the mount against those rails, then we'd be okay. This will add flexibility to the placement of the projector.
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Just use two pieces of Uni-Strut and T nuts. You can slide back and forth along the rails.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1307
[img]http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1307[/img] |
Will my projector be attached to the PSS-70, which will be attached to the Unistrut? Or will the projector be directly mounted to the Unistrut?
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado
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| Link Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| jbltecnicspro wrote: | | Or will the projector be directly mounted to the Unistrut? |
no
| jbltecnicspro wrote: | | Will my projector be attached to the PSS-70, which will be attached to the Unistrut? |
yes
, go the electrical aisle at Home depot and get
1) a 10 foot stick of uni-strut, the low profile stuff- 20 bucks
2) 4 strut nuts that slide into the channel, either 1/2"-13 thread or 3/8"-16
3) some cap screws of the matching thread x 3/4" long thread length,
4) one small box of lag bolts , i like the 5/16ths as they are plenty strong and less likely to split the joist.
5) bag of thick washers to match the lag bolts and span the slots in the bottom the strut..
With a hack -saw cut off 2 pieces strut that will span 3 floor joists, 2 is probly OK but I like 3 for safety. They don't need to be centered to the PJ as the strut will distribute the load over the 3 joists.
With an edge finder , locate and mark the center of each joist. Mark your holes for the lag bolts and pre-drill with a 3/16ths bit. Soap or wax the lag bolts and screw them into the strut with washers.
Slide in and twist-turn your 4 strut-nuts to align with PSS-70, bolt upper half of mount to strut and check for squareness to screen.
Bolt lower half of PSS-70 to PJ.
Lift and hang PJ to upper bracket over pivoting pins, they can hang on these securely with no bolts. Add securing bots over swiveling slots and leave loose. the PJ now can swivel easily up or down to align to screen, tighten bolts to secure.
It's an afternoon project but worth it
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:44 am Post subject: |
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Thank you! This is the route we will go. I'm very excited.
Any advice on the retrace lines? All tubes are now showing retrace lines if I crank the brightness up. Changing the green neck board did not alleviate the issue, so I didn't do the others.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Link Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 3:13 am Post subject: |
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If you're showing retrace lines, and the tubes are good and not near the end of their service life, then G2 is set too high. That's universal for any kind of CRT. Now, how to adjust that?
I'll defer to someone who knows more about the G70 than me when it comes to the details fo how to do that. Which, I admit, is pretty much anybody.
It's reasonable to assume that if your projector had been recalibrated with well worn tubes, and then you replaced the tubes with
tubes that are much fresher, then the higher G2 values that worked with the worn tubes are too high for the newer tubes.
So the projector needs recalibration. No doubt there are people who can help you with that.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 512
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| Link Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | If you're showing retrace lines, and the tubes are good and not near the end of their service life, then G2 is set too high. That's universal for any kind of CRT. Now, how to adjust that?
I'll defer to someone who knows more about the G70 than me when it comes to the details fo how to do that. Which, I admit, is pretty much anybody.
It's reasonable to assume that if your projector had been recalibrated with well worn tubes, and then you replaced the tubes with
tubes that are much fresher, then the higher G2 values that worked with the worn tubes are too high for the newer tubes.
So the projector needs recalibration. No doubt there are people who can help you with that. |
Looking at the service manual I see that there are a few more items that can be adjusted, but I'm not sure which one would do the trick. Would this be at the PA board?
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