|
|
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Have you measured how much of a positional improvement this makes for the yoke?
I'm trying to use Barco deflection yokes because they're almost an inch shorter. But their electrical
parameters are very different and I'm not sure that this experiment will be successful.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have tried the move around the yokes routine, and that don't work, they are always the sharpest further forwards. That's why I did this. Very excited about the outcome of this too. Tjeerd would sell me a set of 2 Barco yokes and might build them for me if you can make it work. I would need a third from someone else he said. But this might work out for the best also.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The reason I am trying to use Barco DEFLECTION yokes, and not the stock Thomson deflection yokes, is because the deflection and convergence yoke assembly found in a 909 is about a full inch shorter than the Thomson deflection/convergence yoke assembly, and that extra inch is needed to correctly position the Barco (Kanto-Denshi) focus yoke on the neck.
The sharpest stock CRT projector is the Cine 9/909. Duplicating its magnetic system, if you can drive the coils properly, is a valid exercise in making a Marquee sharper.
The Thomson yokes are NOT equal to the Kanto-Denshi yokes. ANY of them.
Note, the deflection yokes found in Barcos are also Kanto-Denshi products.
The problem, though, is that it may be that the Barco deflection yokes are so electrically off their values that even by making the wiring equivalent to the Thomson deflection yokes, the coil inductance values may still be unworkable with a stock Marquee HDM.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I suck at setting magnets, but it looks like it might be working, at the very least the same as before. But taking screenshots from grid lines is very difficult, and I had to delete a whole bunch, but ended up with a few that does not look like I have ramped up focus on them. Even so, they still look bloated to me, but it is what it is.
Only blue has gotten the treatment so far, it has a stock VNB on it, while green and red has MP versions. Stock VIM 02.
Blue magnet was just briefly touched in daylight, the dots were almost impossible to see, but a little tune up was needed for the shots.
Green looks very thick compared to the others, and shots like these are so reveling so need to work a lot more I know, but red is always the sharpest, well, until today, when blue looks like the sharpest of them all.
It doesn't matter, it is worth proceeding with green and red doing this, and never been this excited before about setting up my pj.
Btw, I took them at various settings on the camera juts randomly.
Contrast: 75
Brightness: 48 (I think is)
800p@72Hz
adult image sharing
free photo upload
screenshot software
image upload no compression
uploading images
image upload free
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24296 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 4:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I didn't read everything above, but Wolfman, your astig magnets are way too far forward on the tube! Those should be back where they were when the stock yokes were on.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 5:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ok, I'll put them back and see.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 7:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
You'd be better off to start your experiments with the green tube, as it's the color that the eye is most sensitive to. Red is the second choice, blue is the worst by far. We just don't see that well in the blue region.
Having the CPC magnets too forward on the tube is likely to just reduce their effectiveness. Which might actually be useful,
as I've found that some CPCs are if anything a little TOO effective. They might have a more subtle touch if set forward on the tube, which might be just what you need in some cases.
You have the latitude to move them around a bit, so I recommend you experiment with how their position on the tube neck affects their operation.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It never occurred to me that the CPC magnets could have anything to do with the sharpness and their positioning, but will move them while running the projector at the same time, there is great of movement to be had and will do it slowly and see.
Does anyone have a opinion of the overall grid pattern and their looking? I never touch the middle rod, I've only done that once, and that was with a rebuilt blue tube, and made it round by it, but other than that never use it unless by accident in the dark.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 305 Location: The Netherlands
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Be very carefull with the high voltage
Did you adjust astig? Problem with your modification is that you can't clamp your coils anymore. I hope you won't have convergence and focus drift because of this.
_________________ Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Astig, as in digital treating, no. That is something left to do and improve the image. IF that is what you meant? But if there is a elephant in the room I'd like to know about it. Be brutal if you have to.
Oh, I have gotten 1000 V thru me so I know it is not that hard to deal with. It might have been the HDM that jolted me working on the green tube but came out of nowhere. I was expecting to be on the floor if it happened, but to my surprise I just carried on like it never happened really. But it takes a Swede to brush that off
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The HDM doesn't really shock you, it BURNS you. 1500 volts AC at 50,000 hertz makes RF burns that look, feel, and smell just liek a soldering iron jabbed you. A hot one.
Been there, done that, and sometimes I can find the scar.
You bet, the CPC adjustments affect sharpness!
My way of adjusting CPC and astig is currently less "textbook" and more related to real on-screen peformance with video material.
I like to pull up a picture like this:
http://www.virtualantarctica.com/downloads/wallpaper/sea_ice.jpg
and use it when adjusting astig, cpc, and focus. I'm trying to maximize the edge sharpness of every edge in every zone with every adjustment.
It's pretty good when you do it that way.
It also REALLY shows how the CPC adjustments affect edge sharpness.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It must have been the inside of the VNB then. I don't see how it could have been anything else, when I was no way near those deflection yokes, that I know will kill me?? But lesson learned, stay away from the HDM more carefully then! How much voltage do they carry each and every part?
Btw, could discharge from the tube make me jolted?
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 2:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
The G2 lead on the VNB can deliver something rather high, and it's DC. 690 volts? I can't remember but it'll give you something to remember, believe that!
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
With 2-3 mm to spare, I fitted a second focus yoke on the tube neck! Pretty cool I got to say, and will turning it on when I get the courage to do it. But first I need a shield between the two, I have one, but it needs to be shaven a bit more. A simple card board shield between should work too.
Anyway, by removing the clamp on the CPC magnets another 10 mm will be had, so that's comforting.
And also, I wonder if the second focus yoke could destroy a perfectly good blue tube.. my last one turned bitter on me so down to my last one.
I wonder what would happen if they both shared the wires going to different boards.
And one more thing, having them back-to-back made them suck tougher quickly so figure the CPC magnets should be between them.
screen shots
upload gifs
image hosting adult
image hosting 20mb
image hosting site over 5mb
picture uploading
20mb image hosting
free upload image
adult photo sharing
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 4:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A another idea would be to have the stock focus yoke between the deflection and convergence yoke..
No, better yet, Frankenyokes between there and stock yokes at the back. I'll try every combination conceivable soon.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 8:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
No, having two focus yokes is probably a bad idea. I predict you'll get raster rotation and if you get the magnetic polarities messed up, you could end up with the electron beam taking a left turn at albuquerque and burning right through the tube neck.
Adding more yokes isn't going to help you. What is needed is one set of magnetics that are all as pure and precise as possible.
One thing you may notice is that as you go up the tube neck heading for the bell, the magnetic fields and voltages involved become stronger and currents become larger.
CPCs are passive. Focus is a low power system, convergence is a little bit more electrically powerful, deflection will light you up real good, and of course, the anode will rock your socks off! And it can KILL you.
Playing around with excess active coils can lead to a tube cut in half. And NEITHER side will deliver a good picture.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
tschaeikaei
Joined: 08 Apr 2013 Posts: 489 Location: Germany/Saarland
|
Link Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 8:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Wolfman, are you using 40kV tubes.. and why?
Anyone got some info about using 1209s focus coils on a Marquee. Mine are KF-3205 KQL4.
I believe i read somewhere people tried them, but cannot find the thread.
About stock Thomson Marquee focus coils: There are two versions, right? The older using smaller gauge wire and do not have the additional astig winding.
The newer with the thicker copper wire and the astig winding.
Since we have a stand-alone astig coil, what does that astig winding on the focus coil do?
How can i verify i got the right coils in my Ultra without disassembling? Is there any setting that wouldn't work with an Ultra using the old FC?
The projector has been build using a lot of different parts, all tubes were bare naked and at that time i thought there's only one type of FC.
Thank you, regards, Julian
_________________ Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
thewolfman
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 1311 Location: Sweden
|
Link Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's over my head, Julian, about the tubes, you must ask someone else. Sorry.
I've been thinking i should have them back-to-back and test very shortly. Naively, I was thinking that the signal wont book a flight to Albuquerque, so easily, if they were back-to-back, with the stronger FY pulling it back in again. Back to Boise, Idaho.
The seller of the FY said the something about the fact, that they are reversed inside, but only because I asked and was reading thru tons of posts. So maybe the stock once should be backwards then.. But I'm sure I got that all wrong.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006 Posts: 5180 Location: Buried under G90s
|
Link Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
tschaeikaei wrote: | Wolfman, are you using 40kV tubes.. and why?
Anyone got some info about using 1209s focus coils on a Marquee. Mine are KF-3205 KQL4.
I believe i read somewhere people tried them, but cannot find the thread.
About stock Thomson Marquee focus coils: There are two versions, right? The older using smaller gauge wire and do not have the additional astig winding.
The newer with the thicker copper wire and the astig winding.
Since we have a stand-alone astig coil, what does that astig winding on the focus coil do?
How can i verify i got the right coils in my Ultra without disassembling? Is there any setting that wouldn't work with an Ultra using the old FC?
The projector has been build using a lot of different parts, all tubes were bare naked and at that time i thought there's only one type of FC.
Thank you, regards, Julian |
The focus coils without astig windings were made for the old 8000 and 9000 models. And the 8110, if I remember right.
I don't know about wire gauge differences. It shouldn't matter a whole lot in any event.
There is no stand-alone astig coil. The astig windings are always part of the focus yoke assembly if they are present at all.
But, the CONVERGENCE yoke, at the end of the Marquee deflection yoke, can be separated from it but normally you would not do this.
Just seeing how many magnetics you can stack on a tube neck is a bad idea. You run the risk of blowing the electron beam right through the tube wall if you get magnetic polarities mixed up and in conflict with each other between the two focus yokes, and then you're looking at a busted tube.
You're NOT going to get better performance by putting two of any yoke on a single tube neck.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
Forum powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
|
|