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Gathering info for Local community theater

 
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KnottyMan



Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Freeland


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:45 am    Post subject: Gathering info for Local community theater Reply with quote


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I'm helping out my brother in law who is the tech director for a local community theater that has been given a grant to flesh out their remaining tech build of a new rehearsal space and mainstage.

Members on the board are also hot for 4K and presenting remote performances since it looks like the local telco will be bringing in sync gige on fibre.

Their current mainstage projector is a Sanyo PLC XP30 with a long throw LNS T31A lens on it. I'd love to see a G90 or 909 but the twist is that they also have a secondary lens for a secondary target. They have a big motorized screen for presentations, but they can also hit the back wall to put a picture or pattern to paint backdrops. I'm not sure how much of a PITA it would be to adjust a three barrel CRT rig to accomplish this. Focus on the screen, then use zoom to go the extra distance if/when they need it? The current projector is in the booth shooting down just a touch. Max throw is 55' and change. The screen is 8-10' closer?

Then there's the ever louder cry from the peanut gallery, "but does it do 4K?!" At 50 feet, is 4K with this generation a good idea? I'm not thinking there's a ton of lens choices without getting exotic.

In the new rehearsal hall, throw is just 35'. Semi plan currently is to move the Sanyo to the rehearsal space, and hang it from the catwalks.

Theater setup

I've looked at Stewart's site and shouldn't be a big deal to get a basic 12' motorized commercial AV screen in a box to replace the home made one currently in place. It moves by hand right now... The manilla rope is hard on the hands too, I don't know why theaters still have it.


Questions for this peanut gallery:
The long throw lens they have now I'm thinking is specific to that Sanyo, or a limited selection of projectors at least. I'm not thinking it's reusable for modern gear.

What would it take, or is it folly, to get a 4K set (Sony 1100ES?) to get out 50+ feet for the mainstage?

Should I tell them to bag the Sanyo and strap a G90 to the cats or is it 4K projectors for everybody?
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way is a CRT bright enough to do what you want. Not an application for CRT at all.
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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10621
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No kidding. A CRT doesn't have anywhere near the lumens you need for a screen that size, it can't be set up for multiple throw distances, and it can't do 4K.
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you need one of the sony SRX Series 4K LCoS projectors to do what you want, with the size of the screen and distance, it would be ideal for what you're trying to accomplish. As Curt & Gary said, a CRT projector is not at all intended for that type of install.

I mention the sony SRX Series projectors, since it sounds like you're comfortable purchasing used projectors, and you can pick those projectors up online anywhere from $5000 to $15000 (Depending on the model of course) - even the "old" SRX-S105 or SRX-T110 4K DCI projector would be an excellent choice for what you want to do. I don't know what the budget is but anything 4K is not "cheap".

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KnottyMan



Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Freeland


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, figured CRT was not going to be the best application. They have a big volunteer base as well, so need to make it easy. Trying to figure out if there's something higher res than the Sanyo though.

LCoS is an idea, and yes, 4K is not cheap, I have prepared them for that. They were thinking they'd have to shell out 30k+ though. I've seen the 1100ES go for 10-15. I'm just worried about the geometry.
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15821
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Gathering info for Local community theater Reply with quote

KnottyMan wrote:
Members on the board are also hot for 4K ...

Why?

Questions:

1. What sources will be used?

2. What is the screen size? I see a lot of talk about 35-55' throw but nothing about screen size other than it be be 12'? Is that diag or width?

3. How will the screen be viewed? How much ambient lighting? Or complete darkness?

4. Budget?

Regardless of the response, agreed that CRT doesn't make any sense here.

Unless you truly need it (doubtful), a bright 1080p projector probably makes a lot more sense. Especially if the screen's only 12' (wide/diag) and people are sitting reasonably far away from it (from what I can tell from the photo you posted).

Kal

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garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10621
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Gathering info for Local community theater Reply with quote

kal wrote:
2. What is the screen size? I see a lot of talk about 35-55' throw but nothing about screen size other than it be be 12'? Is that diag or width?

With 20/20 vision you can't resolve 1080p pixels more than about 0.8 - 1.0 screen width away. With 4k it would be roughly half that. So unless your viewers are going to be sitting 5' from a 12' screen, they won't be able to see the pixels.

Now you can see pixel *artifacts* (Moire &etc) from farther away. But I seriously doubt you could tell the difference between 1080p and 4k more than maybe 1.5-2.0 screen widths away.

IMHO 4k is just silly in most applications.
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KnottyMan



Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Freeland


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know, right? I think it's the 4K buzzword. There is something to be said about buying ahead, but in general, yeah, overkill. But oooooh, 4K!!1one!

As far as source, I'm not sure. You see ads in the movies where you can see a concert at your local theater rather than go to the actual venue. Not sure how it's delivered. That's an idea of what they're thinking about. For backdrops and such, a PC with dvi/hdmi. And then just the basic DVD here and there. So 1080p wins again.

The mainstage screen is about 16' wide. It was up and unavailable to bring down to actually measure. It's 4:3 from what I can tell. The 12' proposed screen (by me) is for the secondary rehearsal hall to replace the DIY one. It's just a basic Stewart electric roll up I quickly found on their site. The DIY is ok, but as I mentioned, it is manually adjusted for height, levelness, and hung by manilla rope. Looking to class it up a bit.

The theater has a complete dimmer system for house and stage lighting on the mainstage. A typical lighting will be similar to this. That's from the actual mainstage. The rehearsal has some lighting control and that's also part of this build out is adding to that. Lighting control will not be an issue.

Another good example

They got a nice grant, so budget is up in the air. Some is going for lights/speakers in the rehearsal hall, new sound board that can bet networked with 802.1AVB. They're trying to balance how much debt to pay off, stuff like that. That's why I don't want to see them drop a ton for 4K if it won't help. Better things to spend the money on.

Like a 1080p light cannon (or two).


Last edited by KnottyMan on Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15821
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.

Sounds like there are a lot of things up in the air still (ie. nobody knows what the source(s) will be) so choosing the end projection system to use at this point doesn't many any sense. That's putting the solution before the requirements.

Kal

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