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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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 Link Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:05 pm Post subject: LUG to LCP Conversion for Marquee VNB |
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Hi,
I did a write-up for the re-conversion of LUG-modified Marquee video neck boards (VNBs).
Please feel free to comment on any errors...
Unfortunately, it's too big to be attached to a post, so I had to put it over here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/7mlfrxchoz5h7dm/LUG%20to%20LCP%20Conversion%20for%20Marquee%20VNB.pdf?dl=0
Regards,
barclay66
Edit: Updated Link
Last edited by barclay66 on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Great writeup Barclay66
I would only add that the difference between the 8" and 9" neck boards besides the socket key, is the adjustment pot (R86) settings that sets a cut-off limit that's different from the two boards.
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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Added. Thanks!
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia
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| Link Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:57 pm Post subject: |
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What would be a reason for going back?
_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | What would be a reason for going back? |
Hi,
The lack of LUG tubes and NOS LCP tubes ready for installation...
Regards,
barclay66
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:31 am Post subject: |
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Oh i see. I thought there was a good stock of P19LUG tubes available from Greg?
Last time i asked him he still was getting them rebuilt with simulation grade guns and phosphor.
_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | Oh i see. I thought there was a good stock of P19LUG tubes available from Greg?
Last time i asked him he still was getting them rebuilt with simulation grade guns and phosphor. |
Good to know. But Greg's tubes would represent a large investment and the two LCP sets from Curt are here already 
Regards,
barclay66
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Yeah theyre not cheap, but theyre apparently better tubes. I havent fitted mine yet.
_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Yeah theyre not cheap, but theyre apparently better tubes. I havent fitted mine yet.
_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Yeah theyre not cheap, but theyre apparently better tubes. |
Honestly, I'm not quite sure about that.
Although the LUGs have a smaller spot size, You have to drive them harder than the LCPs as the smaller spot emits less light. And my experience with LUGs (I made several tests with different color LUGs) teached me that they are much more prone to blooming when driven at higher contrast levels. So the blooming will eat up the spot size advantage in most cases.
I simply have the feeling that the LUG's system design isn't perfectly compatible with the differential drive of the Marquee where the beam intensity is controlled by the voltage difference between the cathode and the G1 grid.
The BR909 and later models with LUGs do that differently. They leave the G1 grid on a controlled level and drive the cathode with a much higher voltage. Maybe the LUG's design works best in this configuration...
Regards,
barclay66
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24301
Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my only comment is that on my test set, I have drilled out pin 6 on all neck boards as per your first pix, so that I can run LUG and LCP tubes in the Marquee. I simply put the white G2 lead back on pin 2 from pin 6, leave pin 6 floating, and have had no issues over the last 5 or so years of doing that.
Sure, I guess grounding pin 6 gives a tiny bit more protection if a tube arcs internally, but from what I've found, that's pretty rare overall.
Comments?
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barclay66
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
Posts: 1291
Location: Germany
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500 Ultra
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, it's mentioned at the end of my document as I knew that it's possible to leave pin 6 (and maybe 7 too) unconnected. I just feel better having those connectors tied to a defined voltage level. Sometimes You may call me 'anal'. At least I already have been described as dedicated to 'unbutchering' PCBs. That nasty passion...
Regards,
barclay66
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mrbiggleswurth
Joined: 09 Apr 2015
Posts: 7
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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Nice writeup.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia
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| Link Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Yeah theyre not cheap, but theyre apparently better tubes. |
Honestly, I'm not quite sure about that.
Although the LUGs have a smaller spot size, You have to drive them harder than the LCPs as the smaller spot emits less light. And my experience with LUGs (I made several tests with different color LUGs) teached me that they are much more prone to blooming when driven at higher contrast levels. So the blooming will eat up the spot size advantage in most cases.
I simply have the feeling that the LUG's system design isn't perfectly compatible with the differential drive of the Marquee where the beam intensity is controlled by the voltage difference between the cathode and the G1 grid.
The BR909 and later models with LUGs do that differently. They leave the G1 grid on a controlled level and drive the cathode with a much higher voltage. Maybe the LUG's design works best in this configuration...
Regards,
barclay66 |
Im refering to the simulation grade tubes, not the P19LUGs in general.
_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands
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| Link Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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quoted this one in the other lug lcp thread from Mike Parker.
_________________
701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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mp20748
Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 5681
Location: Maryland
TV/Projector: 9500LC Ultra / Super 02 and 03 VIM
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| Link Posted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| barclay66 wrote: | | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | | Yeah theyre not cheap, but theyre apparently better tubes. |
Honestly, I'm not quite sure about that.
Although the LUGs have a smaller spot size, You have to drive them harder than the LCPs as the smaller spot emits less light. And my experience with LUGs (I made several tests with different color LUGs) teached me that they are much more prone to blooming when driven at higher contrast levels. So the blooming will eat up the spot size advantage in most cases.
I simply have the feeling that the LUG's system design isn't perfectly compatible with the differential drive of the Marquee where the beam intensity is controlled by the voltage difference between the cathode and the G1 grid.
The BR909 and later models with LUGs do that differently. They leave the G1 grid on a controlled level and drive the cathode with a much higher voltage. Maybe the LUG's design works best in this configuration...
Regards,
barclay66 |
I agree with a lot this from my experience (The G90 has very similar to Marquee G1/Cathod drive), but would add that the LUG's are not the best when using the standard Marquee neck boards. But in the 909 and G90, they blow away the LCP.
And as I've mention in the other thread, because of their differences, they would need to have specific neck boards or boards designed with them in mind. Simply dropping an LUG into a Marquee is not going to be an equal or better option over the LCP in which it was designed for.
I discovered these things the first time I've had an LUG loaded Marquee here in my setup and was able to evaluate things using my generator and that was not long ago.
Now, the LUG's are higher resolution no doubt, but that's not easy to experience with them, but it's something I hope to demonstrate through screenshots later today or tomorrow after I get the boards finished and in my main setup
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2857
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Link Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:00 am Post subject: |
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I have always used Sony tubes so no experience at all with LUG tubes so I have a simple question that might help me determine how much better the LUG tubes are.
Can anyone who has their PJ dialed in properly with LUG tubes tell me how thick the lines are on a cross hatch pattern at the screen as well as the resolution and distance from the screen.
This seems like a good way to compare tubes as screen shots really don't help.
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Link Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Check the specs on the Barco Cine 9. Max spec'ed resolution is 3200x2560. Equipped with LUG tubes.
Correctly set up, LUGs are the sharpest tubes you're going to find. Anything sharper was a custom product.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2790
Location: Budapest, Hungary
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| Link Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| cmjohnson wrote: | Check the specs on the Barco Cine 9. Max spec'ed resolution is 3200x2560. Equipped with LUG tubes.
Correctly set up, LUGs are the sharpest tubes you're going to find. Anything sharper was a custom product. |
That does not mean it can resolve it... for instance my XG135LC is rated to 2500x2000 but nobody is thinking it can do it. 
_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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cmjohnson
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s
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| Link Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:16 am Post subject: |
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The specs are SUPPOSED to indicate a resolvable resolution. "Resolvable" meaning at a certain specific MTF value.
Problem is, one manufacturer may specify an MTF of 65 percent and another may specify an MTF of 10 percent. There is a HUGE difference there.
As I recall, Barco specifies a pretty high MTF value so if they say it'll do 3200x2560, then I would expect that it can actually resolve it pretty well. Assuming everything is in good order and properly adjusted.
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