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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8600
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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km987654 wrote:
Well this just demonstrates that different people can view the same thing and have a very different perspective.
yeah , there's the group that understands it and the group that asks "what the f*ck, where's the shootout and the car chase? This is a STooopppid movie and it's Booorrrinng? Laughing
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jeffslife



Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4031
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My new favorite sci fi film. Period. It was beautiful on BD too. Watched it 3 times.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my British version sitting here but I haven't watched it. I'm finishing up season 7 of The X-Files right now. Then I'll get to it and then back to the XF movies, and then a bunch of other movies.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:07 pm    Post subject: SPOILERS Reply with quote

The wife and I watched this UK BD yesterday. This morning it got us talking.

My first question was how often did Ava need to recharge? Considering that Nathan said the problems existed and power stumbled regularly how is it from his monitoring style of Ava he couldn't make the 'psychic connection' between the two events? Worse, if he was so curious about his work why wouldn't he have implemented battery/offline monitoring well before Caleb's arrival?

Next, if the helicopter pilot knew the only guest was Caleb, why wouldn't he resist in taking Ava from the site? While I understand she could fool him in passing herself off as human, one would thing protocols would be in place to verify before executing flight to/from the site.

This idea is reinforced by the notion that the vastness and remoteness of the site, all of it on Nathan's owned property, would dictate that anyone observed not in accordance would be treated as hostile a la corporate espionage. Yes, the security protocols seem to be nonexistent outside the front gate of the structure. And all this aloofness from a man who created a huge company of intelligence and then an AI?

Finally, this movie really went down the cheesy path of robophobia. I wrote a paper for an English literature class back in the early 90's. It was modern Science Fiction Literature. The teacher loved the paper, acknowledged my love of all things Asimov, but yet this entire precept of building AI with 'laws' that would protect humans was not even touched on. Do I assume this is to pass the Turing test?

Finally, I had read somewhere before seeing the movie that Caleb might actually be the one being tested. Not as a human being tested by AI, but as an AI that doesn't know it is an AI, and the tool to test was Ava. This alternative plot, while intriguing, was confused by Caleb slicing open his forearm* to see inside to make sure he wasn't artificial and then hiding this visually to draw firm conclusions.

Maybe that last point was due to my viewing setup and had I watched it on a brighter setup I would have seen guts inside a forearm as opposed to artificial. * He did slice down the forearm in the correct way, though, if he had intent on committing suicide. Anyway, those are some of my morning thoughts about the topics of discussion the wife and I had.


Highlight to reveal.

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8600
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well you certainly raise some interesting points and it really highlights all the things we've touched on here before about how people interpret and understand things.

I was so engrossed and absorbed in the Philosophical questions and principles being presented that I didn't even stop to ponder the little minutia and details that you picked up on. To be honest, none of those things even matter to me, I mean the power outages were 100% fake, there were no real power fluctuations that I recall except the very last one right?

And her leaving on the helicopter, what does it matter? the point was she got out and blended in with human society, like a virus escaping a containment facility. How she got out is trivial, the point they were making is
"if you do this , you will lose control of it"

Not saying your questions don't matter, but they just seem to miss the point of the movie, no?

It would be like going to a symphony being conducted by one of the best Orchestras and conductors and focusing on the carpet or drapes and saying "boy, those were pretty shabby for a command performance, don't you think?"

Wink

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragan... Thumbs Up

I agree they're minor details. Yes, on the one hand, they're plot holes... On the other, they're very minor. It's a story. Fiction. Philosophy. Not an airtight alibi. It's not like it was challenging the law of gravity like... Gravity. Wink

I'm sure if we thought about it enough, we could come up with plausible explanations for the events.

For instance, if an artificially-intelligent robot realizes sentience, and wants to go see the world, and knows it must escape from what it perceives as captors, and to do so must disable security, then certainly it could also need to know it must need to manipulate other security mechanisms... Perhaps there were illicit emails sent with regard to transport and who would be picked up... A change of plans so to speak. I don't need to see every single meal a character eats to know that he/she probably ate a meal or two that day.

As for the security breach, security protocols are often poorly-designed, failing to accommodate every "what if" scenario. Even when they are brilliantly-designed, people make mistakes.

You get the point. Minor details don't change the value of the overall story, and I don't even see these as significant issues.

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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, I am not saying I did not enjoy the movie. I did. The wife did. Still, there had to have been forethought about actions in all parties. But I was a little disappointed that they had Ava kill. One of the things Asimov came to the conclusion about in terms of artificial, mechanized lifeforms was fear, and in recognizing that fear to place safe guards by design in place.

While I do not wish the berate Nathan's efforts (Who is going to say No to this: http://cdn.free1.cz/media_object/2015/5/20/172683/5/Sonoya-Mizuno-Topless-In-Ex-Machina-01-580x435.61966925.jpg), one might think the most simple thing humans have learned was not playing with the flame of fire a second time--it burned the first time.

Yet, robophobia seemed like the worse path the movie could take. It would have been fine in Kyoko did the killing--she's an earlier model. But why Turing test is it is too dangerous to let out of the rat cage? At least in Jurassic Park they 'thought' they had a safety contingency but that it failed. Here, they didn't even have that.

I get letting the Genie out of the bottle for the story--and the philosophical aspects--but why not call Ava T2000 and be done with it? I guess I got to go watch it again and this time let the analytical side of be to nap. Kyoko can help me get there.

BTW, keep in mind I have a comprehension problem diagnosed 43-44 years ago so if I am slow on the uptake of story portions then give this kid a break.

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draganm



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
BTW, I am not saying I did not enjoy the movie. I did. The wife did. Still, there had to have been forethought about actions in all parties. But I was a little disappointed that they had Ava kill. One of the things Asimov came to the conclusion about in terms of artificial, mechanized lifeforms was fear, and in recognizing that fear to place safe guards by design in place.


"God dam it Hal, OPEN THE HATCH"

" I'm sorry Dave, I can't let you do that" Mr. Green

WanMan wrote:
BTW, keep in mind I have a comprehension problem diagnosed 43-44 years ago so if I am slow on the uptake of story portions then give this kid a break.
movies like this are not meant to fully digested in one sitting. The writer/director had months or years to create it, we only get 2 hours to absorb it. I will watch a great movie multiple times because there is more there than we can see on the first sitting.
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