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Epson laser lcos

 
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nettwerkjohn



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 887
Location: Nelson, sunshine capital of New Zealand


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Epson laser lcos Reply with quote


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Just wondering if anyone has seen one of these running?
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25278
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm Friken' LASERS! Cool Laughing
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is pretty nice, but I wouldn't buy one. Cedia is four months away and there is a probability that there will be at least one more laser pj (JVC).
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nombz



Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 119
Location: Stockholm, Sweden


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are talking about the 10000, yes I have seen it.
(this one http://www.epson.com.au/microsite/elite-home/ )

And it is impressive. I have seen the JVCs that compete with CRTs (I have a 1209s/E myself but looking to replace to reduce noise, heat and increase sharpness). The JVCs (x500, x55 and x700) have some issues I didnt like. The Epson doesnt. To me, this one is a gamechanger. Smooth picture, GREAT blacks (yes, better than the JVCs) and contrast is very good. I believe (I will go for a second demo soon) I can replace my Barco with this one and it will be better, not only different (as many of the other digitals I have seen has been).

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Andreas21



Joined: 02 Oct 2013
Posts: 582



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nombz wrote:
If you are talking about the 10000, yes I have seen it.
(this one http://www.epson.com.au/microsite/elite-home/ )

And it is impressive. I have seen the JVCs that compete with CRTs (I have a 1209s/E myself but looking to replace to reduce noise, heat and increase sharpness). The JVCs (x500, x55 and x700) have some issues I didnt like. The Epson doesnt. To me, this one is a gamechanger. Smooth picture, GREAT blacks (yes, better than the JVCs) and contrast is very good. I believe (I will go for a second demo soon) I can replace my Barco with this one and it will be better, not only different (as many of the other digitals I have seen has been).


I have now seen this Epson side by side with the JVC X500 and to say it has better blacks than the JVC is not correct by far. The JVC has much better native on/off contrast and better ANSI contrast wich results in much better dynamics (intrascene contrast) and blacklevel without any DI or laser shutdown. The Epson does fade to black a little better than the JVC as it shuts down the lasers when fed a 0 IRE signal.

The Epson is a very good projector, but it has its issues like all others and I would not change my JVC X500 for it. If I get the chance I will test it over a weekend and get an even better understanding of this projector.

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andreas21 wrote:
I have now seen this Epson side by side with the JVC X500 and to say it has better blacks than the JVC is not correct by far. The JVC has much better native on/off contrast and better ANSI contrast wich results in much better dynamics (intrascene contrast) and blacklevel without any DI or laser shutdown. The Epson does fade to black a little better than the JVC as it shuts down the lasers when fed a 0 IRE signal.

The Epson is a very good projector, but it has its issues like all others and I would not change my JVC X500 for it. If I get the chance I will test it over a weekend and get an even better understanding of this projector.


Thanks for this! I've seen them both, but not under ideal conditions, and certainly not side-by-side.

I appreciate the feedback.

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SC
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When one considers they eyesight and viewing distance I would think the fill-factor of JVC LCoS is sufficient to not need to introduce gimmicks that JVC has been introducing these past handful of years (ahem, DI, e-shift). I like the picture of what my RS20 gives me with the exception of black level, and I know this had been improved upon on models following the RS20, but things like DI and e-shift seem to marketable technologies not addressing native On/Off CR and BL.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, maybe they have hit the wall as far as native on/off cr goes with a lamp. Hopefully, lasers and leds will improve the situation. The DI is an alternative that you can use or not use. I think some only use it for really dark content.

As for e-shift, it is a personal decision. Some think it really improves the image while others turn it off.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
When one considers they eyesight and viewing distance I would think the fill-factor of JVC LCoS is sufficient to not need to introduce gimmicks that JVC has been introducing these past handful of years (ahem, DI, e-shift). I like the picture of what my RS20 gives me with the exception of black level, and I know this had been improved upon on models following the RS20, but things like DI and e-shift seem to marketable technologies not addressing native On/Off CR and BL.

You say it's been improved in later models, and it has, but the numbers on paper really aren't the big deal some make of it. I pulled down my RS45 last summer when we moved and hung up an RS2 for the new owners, and I was blown away by how damn good the picture looked. If there was a big difference in black level, I sure didn't see it. The lamp was fresher in the RS2 and nearing end-of-life in the RS45, too.

Seriously, unless you had them side-by-side, or busted out a meter, I don't think there was that much difference between the look of the two projectors. Yeah, the RS45 did 3D, 24p, servo lens shift/zoom/focus, but as far as the quality of the image, I'd bet money that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they saw them side by side.

Spanky Ham wrote:
Well, maybe they have hit the wall as far as native on/off cr goes with a lamp. Hopefully, lasers and leds will improve the situation. The DI is an alternative that you can use or not use. I think some only use it for really dark content.

Yeah, I think they're nearing the limit of what's possible absorbing all that light. Unless there's some major technological development to make lamps work better, the move the laser and LEDs will be where the improvements come.

Spanky Ham wrote:
As for e-shift, it is a personal decision. Some think it really improves the image while others turn it off.

The difference of opinion is mostly about viewing angle. If you like a really immersive viewing angle like I do, then 1080p pixels are sometimes viewable, and e-shift is a really nice benefit. If you sit a little further back, it's not necessary. This will all become moot with UHD.

SC
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
WanMan wrote:
When one considers they eyesight and viewing distance I would think the fill-factor of JVC LCoS is sufficient to not need to introduce gimmicks that JVC has been introducing these past handful of years (ahem, DI, e-shift). I like the picture of what my RS20 gives me with the exception of black level, and I know this had been improved upon on models following the RS20, but things like DI and e-shift seem to marketable technologies not addressing native On/Off CR and BL.

You say it's been improved in later models, and it has, but the numbers on paper really aren't the big deal some make of it. I pulled down my RS45 last summer when we moved and hung up an RS2 for the new owners, and I was blown away by how damn good the picture looked. If there was a big difference in black level, I sure didn't see it. The lamp was fresher in the RS2 and nearing end-of-life in the RS45, too.

Seriously, unless you had them side-by-side, or busted out a meter, I don't think there was that much difference between the look of the two projectors. Yeah, the RS45 did 3D, 24p, servo lens shift/zoom/focus, but as far as the quality of the image, I'd bet money that most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference unless they saw them side by side.


Seegs over at AVS swears that there is a huge difference. On the other hand, I asked Steve Smith at Cedia last year and he felt a 4910 wasn't a big improvement over his rs40(?). He has a very nice unit and thought the gamble wasn't worth it. Darin mentioned that the DI best use is for really dark content.

That is not to say I wouldn't like one, I would. The light output alone I think is significantly more than my 25. For right now, I am content with what I have.

Quote:

Spanky Ham wrote:
As for e-shift, it is a personal decision. Some think it really improves the image while others turn it off.

The difference of opinion is mostly about viewing angle. If you like a really immersive viewing angle like I do, then 1080p pixels are sometimes viewable, and e-shift is a really nice benefit. If you sit a little further back, it's not necessary. This will all become moot with UHD.

SC


I realize that and I have read some feel it softens the image to much for them. IIRC most people say the noticeable distance is around one screen width.
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WanMan



Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 10261



PostLink    Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seeing a difference depends on your sight, no? Not taking anyone's sight to task as it means little to me unless it is like my own sight. As I've said before, I can see detail in the low-end where my wife cannot. Poor wife; I love her for other things. Smile

So, while some may not be able to see a big difference that is on paper (measured or marketed), I would always have to see for myself. I do not think I've been in a HT store in +3 years (and that was for speakers for the music room), and not in another person's HT in >5 years.

When the replacement for the RS20 came out was touted by initial reviewers to have better black levels I was OK with that bit of information and looked forward to 3-4 years down the line when I might be buying again. The RS20 replacement didn't include DI/eS so the early reviewers' conclusions and close-up snaps seemed to show an improvement.

Of course, like with anything in viewing life it is all about what you can see and not that of someone else. For instance, some people are immune to RBE, but not me. Dear lord I could have a seizure looking at DLP. Power to those that are immune; now gimme my black levels.

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GREG1292



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sell Epson laser and is awful waste of money. Picture is not good by any sense of the word. I will keep my
Mcintosh DLP with awesome glass optics and give up a little on the dark side to do everything else right.

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I wouldn't say the picture is not good in any sense. I have seen the Epson laser and it is a nice pj. If you prefer DLP then that is fine.
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GREG1292



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana


PostLink    Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
Well, I wouldn't say the picture is not good in any sense. I have seen the Epson laser and it is a nice pj. If you prefer DLP then that is fine.


We also sell the sony 4k it kills it as well but epson is good for the masses.

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They all have their strengths and weaknesses.

I own a Marantz DLP and JVC LCOS. There are things I like about the Marantz over the JVC and vice versa.
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GREG1292



Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 417
Location: indiana


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well noise and specks at 8000.00 should not be one off them. Good read on avs Sony 4K native contrast 17000:1
goes down to DLP level black levels and JVC has colorshift issues from calibration.

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