Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

Epson's Garbage projectors and their cheap auto-iris
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Digital Projectors
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject: Epson's Garbage projectors and their cheap auto-iris Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
So last night I get an email from a customer who bought a nice condition Epson HD projector from me a few weeks ago. The message is basically requesting a return of the projector because it no longer powers on and blinks the lamp and temp LEDs, which according to the user manual are the infamous "Auto-Iris Failure" that I've read so much about online.

Needless to say I had no choice but to accept the return and offer a refund. But this projector got me pissed off enough to give Epson a piece of my mind.

This is the THIRD Epson HD projector that is less than 3 years old that I have had, and sold, that has failed in the exact same fashion. Now keep in mind I generally like to give a heavy test run of every projector I sell, usually a good month of usage to make sure it will stay working with random usage.

So what are the failed models? An Epson 8350, Epson 1925w, and Brightlink 455wi. 3 vastly different models, all with identical problems. And the best part - Epson wont do a damn thing about them because they are literally a few months out of warranty.

It's nice to know Epson has no problem turning their back to customers who are out of warranty... I guess whats getting me to rant like this is the fact that out of the thousands of projectors I have sold, the ONLY other one to EVER come back was a Hitachi that the customer simply didn't want anymore. All other projectors that ever came back were ALL EPSON. That alone says something about their quality of reliability.

I guess what I'm telling you all is - STAY AWAY from Epson unless you want to have a pile of junk shortly after the warranty. Their projectors have cost me over $1000 in returns because of this issue, which I sadly have no control over because none of the 3 machines ever exhibited the iris failure at all while I test ran them.

I most definitely will NOT be buying any Epson projector ever again, or selling one ever again. No one should have to go through a headache on a common failure like this.

_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it Wink
Back to top
ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, my buddy literally had three 8350's in two years. He finally got a good one, but it wasn't easy getting there.

That said, Epson is actually really good about repairs and replacements, even working with some customers which have had failures out of warranty. They do replacement (instead of repair) and they'll even cross-ship if you don't mind putting a credit card on it. They certainly didn't get to be the biggest projector manufacturer in the world by screwing all their customers.

I'm confused, though. You buy and resell projectors, right? So, you're buying a used projector, selling it, it fails at some point later - outside the warranty period - then, you're expecting Epson to honor the warranty for what is at the very least a third owner - after the projector has been through who-knows-what and been who-knows-where? Seriously? Warranties are very rarely extended beyond the original purchaser, and Epson is no exception.

Why are you offering warranties on second- and third-hand projectors at all? Why wouldn't you be selling "working, as-is, manufacturer warranty only (if any)" types of sales?

Just trying to understand your position here, because at this point, I don't.

SC
Back to top
View user's photo album (10 photos)
ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1497



PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Epson did well 5 years.

Now it's a Sony.

_________________
Barco Cine 9 the one and only
Back to top
Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Yeah, my buddy literally had three 8350's in two years. He finally got a good one, but it wasn't easy getting there.

That said, Epson is actually really good about repairs and replacements, even working with some customers which have had failures out of warranty. They do replacement (instead of repair) and they'll even cross-ship if you don't mind putting a credit card on it. They certainly didn't get to be the biggest projector manufacturer in the world by screwing all their customers.

I'm confused, though. You buy and resell projectors, right? So, you're buying a used projector, selling it, it fails at some point later - outside the warranty period - then, you're expecting Epson to honor the warranty for what is at the very least a third owner - after the projector has been through who-knows-what and been who-knows-where? Seriously? Warranties are very rarely extended beyond the original purchaser, and Epson is no exception.

Why are you offering warranties on second- and third-hand projectors at all? Why wouldn't you be selling "working, as-is, manufacturer warranty only (if any)" types of sales?

Just trying to understand your position here, because at this point, I don't.

SC


The projectors in question are actually my own personal machines Razz I liked them well enough to keep a few for myself. I figured the 8350 was a fluke (ditched that one last year) and these 2 720p units im complaining about were newer models and they wouldn't have been prone to the iris issue. Sadly not.

To be fair the reason this rant started me off is because I did sell the 1925w a couple weeks ago since I hadn't used it in a few months, it was a great machine the entire time I had it, and I thought I could trust it (hence why it didn't bother me to put it up for sale).

Since I'm the original owner of the machine and the other 2 I mentioned, I would have thought Epson might have been willing to warranty the product, I guess being a few months out is just a bit too far for them...

Either that or I'm not whining enough on the phone Razz

_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it Wink
Back to top
Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And as for me offering warranties on the projectors I sell, I feel its the least a seller could do, is to offer a buyer a 14 day warranty just in case something does happen. I may not be able to pop out a new replacement but I can at least refund the buyer, who really shouldn't be stuck with an item that went bad a couple weeks after buying it. If I sell anything working and tested out (especially something I've owned its entire existence) then I offer a 14 day warranty, its a good way to get return customers as well Thumbs Up

Edit: For what its worth I've sold probably over 600+ projectors since I got into repairing them, I've only ever had 5 come back that I can think of, out of all I have sold.

4 of them were Epson, one was a Hitachi the guy just didn't want. That says something about reliability...

_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it Wink
Back to top
ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy112 wrote:
And as for me offering warranties on the projectors I sell, I feel its the least a seller could do, is to offer a buyer a 14 day warranty just in case something does happen. I may not be able to pop out a new replacement but I can at least refund the buyer, who really shouldn't be stuck with an item that went bad a couple weeks after buying it. If I sell anything working and tested out (especially something I've owned its entire existence) then I offer a 14 day warranty, its a good way to get return customers as well Thumbs Up


Gotcha. That sucks then if they were your projectors you bought new, you had proof purchase, and were only two months out of warranty. That's lame. I'm personally not a big fan of Epson, so you're really just giving me more ammo. Somehow they're able to remain #1, so they must be doing something right.

A 14-day warranty on your projectors I understand. I misunderstood - thought you were going way beyond that. That's being a good seller on one hand, but of course there's a benefit too... No doubt that seller guarantee increases buyer confidence and pushes bidding significantly higher than an as-is/no warranty listing. So, it's not all altruistic. Wink

Jeremy112 wrote:
Edit: For what its worth I've sold probably over 600+ projectors since I got into repairing them, I've only ever had 5 come back that I can think of, out of all I have sold.

5 out of 600 on used digital projectors is pretty impressive, really. That's less than 1% return rate. Not bad at all!

Jeremy112 wrote:
4 of them were Epson, one was a Hitachi the guy just didn't want. That says something about reliability...

Does it really say something? Hitachi doesn't sell many projectors in terms of volume. Unless you made a point of seeking them out, I'd have to guess they're probably less than a quarter of your business, if not less. Epson on the other hand sells more projectors than a lot of the other manufacturers combined. So, it make sense if you see a couple more Epson come back - because you probably sent a few more Epsons out.

It's a little like looking at a bin of broken phones and concluding that because there are a lot of iPhones in there, they must not be very reliable, when of course the reality is that Apple just ships a shitload of iPhones.

Cheers,
SC
Back to top
View user's photo album (10 photos)
Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is cool that you offer a 14 day warranty. Gazelle does the same. I just bought a Windows phone off of them and I am glad I have another week left in the warranty period.

Wow, 600 pjs! That is a sh$tload.
Back to top
Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Jeremy112 wrote:
And as for me offering warranties on the projectors I sell, I feel its the least a seller could do, is to offer a buyer a 14 day warranty just in case something does happen. I may not be able to pop out a new replacement but I can at least refund the buyer, who really shouldn't be stuck with an item that went bad a couple weeks after buying it. If I sell anything working and tested out (especially something I've owned its entire existence) then I offer a 14 day warranty, its a good way to get return customers as well Thumbs Up


Gotcha. That sucks then if they were your projectors you bought new, you had proof purchase, and were only two months out of warranty. That's lame. I'm personally not a big fan of Epson, so you're really just giving me more ammo. Somehow they're able to remain #1, so they must be doing something right.

A 14-day warranty on your projectors I understand. I misunderstood - thought you were going way beyond that. That's being a good seller on one hand, but of course there's a benefit too... No doubt that seller guarantee increases buyer confidence and pushes bidding significantly higher than an as-is/no warranty listing. So, it's not all altruistic. Wink

Jeremy112 wrote:
Edit: For what its worth I've sold probably over 600+ projectors since I got into repairing them, I've only ever had 5 come back that I can think of, out of all I have sold.

5 out of 600 on used digital projectors is pretty impressive, really. That's less than 1% return rate. Not bad at all!

Jeremy112 wrote:
4 of them were Epson, one was a Hitachi the guy just didn't want. That says something about reliability...

Does it really say something? Hitachi doesn't sell many projectors in terms of volume. Unless you made a point of seeking them out, I'd have to guess they're probably less than a quarter of your business, if not less. Epson on the other hand sells more projectors than a lot of the other manufacturers combined. So, it make sense if you see a couple more Epson come back - because you probably sent a few more Epsons out.

It's a little like looking at a bin of broken phones and concluding that because there are a lot of iPhones in there, they must not be very reliable, when of course the reality is that Apple just ships a shitload of iPhones.

Cheers,
SC


Yep, I agree that the low return rate I've had is pretty impressive, and that's very important to me. Whenever I finish repairing something or sell anything at all, I test the hell out of everything before I sell it. It takes longer, yeah, but I'd rather have that than have a customer on me for something that very likely could have been taken care of before selling it.

Yeah 600 projectors is quite a lot.... believe me I take nice long breaks from working on them to keep myself sane (I don't know how the hell Curt does it without going mad Razz ), but I enjoy working on them and refurbishing them, and especially getting the awesome feedback from customers who are very happy with their projectors, it makes working on this stuff worthwhile to know the people who buy from me are enjoying the items I sell. I actually get a buzz from it probably Razz

I agree with your iphone example as well, I do admit I get more epsons than I care to get in for repair (or when I purchase them in bulk and you get what you get) but I would say the most common projectors I get are InFocus, Epson, Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Panasonic, and Dell, I do get other ones like Toshiba, Vivitek, Sony, JVC, Sanyo, Christie, etc.. but those are more sparse, and I think that's because of a few reasons. First being companies like Vivitek, JVC, and even Sony are consumer brands and I usually don't get them in too often because I deal with business class projectors more than consumer class. Second reason is generally JVC, Sony, Christie, Sanyo (now Panasonic) are higher priced (or specialty) projectors, so that's why I think I see those ones less.

_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it Wink
Back to top
Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
That is cool that you offer a 14 day warranty. Gazelle does the same. I just bought a Windows phone off of them and I am glad I have another week left in the warranty period.

Wow, 600 pjs! That is a sh$tload.



Yep, I think its the least I could do for my customers, since most of the equipment I sell is used or refurbished, I think its only fair. If its something brand new and under manufacturers warranty, I recommend that to the customer vs my 14 day warranty.

Yep, 600 sure is a lot, been doing this for about 3 years now and I still enjoy it as much as I did when I first got into working on them. I've sold projectors in bulk to churches & businesses who usually buy 5+ at a time so they go fast when that happens, and it happens more often than you'd think. A bit of a surprise to me still since they are used machines, but I think the warranty I offer has a lot to do with that. Well, that and the complete interior cleaning almost every machine I sell gets (if it needs it, which most of them usually do). It's always great to hear people say "That projector looks better than the new one we were looking at in Best Buy"

Amazing what something can do if its been maintained Wink

_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it Wink
Back to top
HD-DAVE



Joined: 16 Feb 2007
Posts: 204
Location: Delta, BC


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I have had the opposite experience with Epson, being the owner of two of them now. One is an older WXGA model , then last year I scored a Powerlite Home Cinema 3010 1080p 3D capable unit that is totally awesome. Got it on craigslist with the wireless HD unit, ceiling mount and 5 pairs of 3D glasses for 750 clams.

Yes I admit I knew in advance the auto-iris was problematic, my older one when I first got it (used) made auto-iris "hunting noises" constantly and I simply switched it off ... and have seen no issues with setup or image quality with it off. I have it turned off on my 3010 as well.

The lamp on my older one is slowly dying so it throws the bulb fault at me, but its just a matter of powering off and on a couple of more times and eventually it will fire !!!

.... I bet lots of PJ's end up in the dumpsters for lack of that "retry" process !

BTW Epson Canada has a smoking deal on refurbished 3010's right now -- only $649 CDN:

https://epson.ca/Clearance-Centre/Home-Entertainment/PowerLite-Home-Cinema-3010-1080p-3LCD-Projector---Refurbished/p/V11H421020-N

The 3010's image quality, even over 3D , is really good. The 3D is just as good as my local Cineplex. Only the IMAX 3D is better in my experience but who has $1 bajillion dollars for a home IMAX setup ? Wink


Dave
Back to top
jbltecnicspro



Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 494



PostLink    Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Call me crazy, but I'm not a fan of the sound of an auto-iris anyways. Just another part to fail. I would prefer to have a system that didn't need to rely on one for good contrast. I read something that Epson's entry-level projectors barely offer 1000:1 contrast and that's WITH auto iris enabled. Disabling it brings it down to around 700:1. To me that's simply unacceptable. I can't believe anyone would buy that. I think the model was the 2040 or something like that - it's $700 or so. Absolutely nuts.
Back to top
cmjohnson



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would be astonished to hear how much money and engineering effort is put into ensuring that many products WILL fail AFTER the warranty period expires, and not very long after that date. Obsolescence engineering is an actual engineering discipline.

I read remarks from an engineer who designed precision bearings and they were having a bit of a time designing a bearing that a specific auto manufacturer (their customer) wanted which would last for the warranted mileage plus not more than 10,000 miles. It was not to wear out and fail during the warranty period, and not to last more than 10,000 extra miles.

Your epson projectors are doing what they're designed to do: Fail after out of warranty.
Back to top
whoopn



Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 32



PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then what am I doing wrong, my 8350 has been going strong for years, I rather like my Epson even. One time I had a bulb fail at around 1400 hours and they sent me a new one for free (it was past the warranty if i recall).

Not trying to brag but I wanted to ask this one question:
What altitude are you at? I'm at 5000ft and I enabled high altitude mode (as they recommended).

Maybe I got the one made on a wednesday, either way I'll be knocking on some wood now...

On that same topic, are all of their projectors crap IYO or only the cheaper ones, do you have any experience with the higher end ones? I ask b/c I've seriously considered plunking the cash down on an LS series or a 5040UB.
Back to top
crtbilly



Joined: 01 Apr 2015
Posts: 53



PostLink    Posted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man.... I was thinking of dipping my toe in the digital market with a used Epson 6010 Pro Cinema 3D projector.

I think I'll pass and wait for a jvc.
Back to top
jbltecnicspro



Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 494



PostLink    Posted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whoopn wrote:
Then what am I doing wrong, my 8350 has been going strong for years, I rather like my Epson even. One time I had a bulb fail at around 1400 hours and they sent me a new one for free (it was past the warranty if i recall).

Not trying to brag but I wanted to ask this one question:
What altitude are you at? I'm at 5000ft and I enabled high altitude mode (as they recommended).

Maybe I got the one made on a wednesday, either way I'll be knocking on some wood now...

On that same topic, are all of their projectors crap IYO or only the cheaper ones, do you have any experience with the higher end ones? I ask b/c I've seriously considered plunking the cash down on an LS series or a 5040UB.



You may as well save for a JVC DLA, which doesn't require an auto-iris to achieve their great blacks. That's what I'm doing.
Back to top
Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whoopn wrote:
Then what am I doing wrong, my 8350 has been going strong for years, I rather like my Epson even. One time I had a bulb fail at around 1400 hours and they sent me a new one for free (it was past the warranty if i recall).

Not trying to brag but I wanted to ask this one question:
What altitude are you at? I'm at 5000ft and I enabled high altitude mode (as they recommended).

Maybe I got the one made on a wednesday, either way I'll be knocking on some wood now...

On that same topic, are all of their projectors crap IYO or only the cheaper ones, do you have any experience with the higher end ones? I ask b/c I've seriously considered plunking the cash down on an LS series or a 5040UB.


My apologies that I didn't reply to you inquiry sooner, I don't really keep track of this thread. Out of all of the Epson projectors I've encountered, I can still safely say they are piles of crap.

Now, you're asking about their higher end models like the UB and LS models, those indeed do have a lower failure rate, but I've still encountered a few here or there that had issues (though they were minor and repairable).

Sadly even though they seem to have remedied their auto iris issues in the recent couple of a years, they still produce projectors that have polarizers fail, LCD panels that burn up or just stop working, glue that doesn't hold after a couple thousand hours of use, etc... I mean really, the LCD projector (the design itself in general) has been around for over 2 decades now. You would think by now, they could design and produce a machine that wouldn't have burning up polarizers and crappy LCD panels.

The one thing about any Epson PJ I've worked on, they use a LOT of screws in most of their projectors, more than most companies do, almost as many as Mitsubishi! (which is a good thing when it comes to build quality!) It's about the only positive I can think of regarding an Epson, that and yeah, Epson's look great when they work, otherwise I don't give them a second thought.

My 2 cents, everyone's taste and opinion's on things are different. I'm just telling you the facts from what I have seen working on them over the years. As I said in my OP, I won't ever buy an Epson again, but they come in on loads I purchase once in a while so I can't completely avoid them, they just make so damn many and everyone buys them it seems!

_________________
When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it Wink
Back to top
jbltecnicspro



Joined: 23 Apr 2016
Posts: 494



PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are your thoughts on Benq and Optoma in comparison with Epson? I know you said they're all pretty much garbage but I was thinking about getting a Benq HT-2050 for video gaming purposes. It's bright, 1080p, doesn't have too much input lag (33ms I think?), good motion clarity with DLP, and none of the usual BS that you get with budget-level LCD projectors. Of course this is a pipe dream at the moment as I'd really love a nice JVC unit for movies and I can only have one and not both.
Back to top
cmjohnson



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I say save your money and get a JVC. You can get a very good used RS45 (or other models) that are 1080p, have a great contrast ratio, and can be found for under a thousand dollars, if you shop around and have some patience.

I haven't heard many complaints about the reliability of JVC's D-ILA series.
Back to top
garyfritz



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 10582
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, I didn't realize the RS45's had gotten that cheap. There's one on ebay now, recently serviced and 100-hour bulb, for $800. Hmmm.
Back to top
cmjohnson



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 5180
Location: Buried under G90s


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an RS45. It's quite good. I would not hesitate to buy it again. Very recommended.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Digital Projectors All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum