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El Duderino




Joined: 23 Jan 2011
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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kal wrote:
[i]1. A "debate" forum where all controversial subjects have to be posted such as political, religious, and social issues. People can scream/bitch/insult each other as much as they like. It's the no rules forum.


In the first sticky thread at the top of the present OT forum, that seems to me to be pretty much how you've already defined it? It says generally no rules, no mods, and where politics and religion can be argued. It also says specifically to NOT go bitching to a mod as they wont moderate other than spam.

If #1 is on the table, then that's my vote, and will likely be where I interact most.
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See my previous post.... were posting at roughly the same time.
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El Duderino




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PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
See my previous post.... were posting at roughly the same time.


OK, I see that. Rules are changing as we speak, as they wasn't consistent. I should probably let the dust settle and see how/where things settle. Thanks.
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HogPilot




Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've posted this elsewhere, but I'm in favor of keeping the OT forum completely unmoderated - i.e. no moderator intervention for anything except for illegal activity or anything that is deleterious to Curt's business.

I think compromise solutions such as splitting the OT into an unmoderated forum and a moderated debate forum or trying to enforce rules in the OT forum will all turn out badly. As long as everyone can keep the OT-appropriate stuff in the OT forum, there shouldn't be a problem.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess what I have a problem understanding is why people feel the need to be able to personally attack someone via insults/threats on the OT forum?

By not allowing it, discussions (even heated ones) should be able to run longer and be more interesting than them turning into name calling after the first few posts.

Kal

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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I guess what I have a problem understanding is why people feel the need to be able to personally attack someone via insults/threats on the OT forum?

By not allowing it, discussions (even heated ones) should be able to run longer and be more interesting than them turning into name calling after the first few posts.

Kal


I agree it would be much nicer if we all stopped the name calling. However we all know we all will slip and it will happen.
What all the back lash is that after the three recent ban's we are afraid just because we call someone an idiot( which I dont think is that bad) once or maybe a few times we will be banned.

Some times we need to be called names . As silly as it sounds it can be a good thing. When I get called an ass hole for example ,it makes me pause and rethink the action I just did, and if it has merit I will follow up with an apology.


So it depends on how the name calling and ridiculing is delivered. And THAT can be very subjective for for a mod or the web owner to decide the fate of a forum member.


Athanasios

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
I agree it would be much nicer if we all stopped the name calling. However we all know we all will slip and it will happen.

It's the "sometimes" vs "all the time" that I see an issue, and if we say that the OT forum has no rules (anything goes) I see that as a can of worms.

Part of the reason we're here today is because of the mandate Mr_ro_co vocally and publicly took on to try and get Ron off this forum. He announced time and time again that he would continually insult and attack Ron personally in the hopes that he would stop posting.

Should personal vendetta's like that be allowed? If we say that the OT has no rules, how can that sort of behaviour not be allowed?

Nashou66 wrote:
What all the back lash is that after the three recent ban's we are afraid just because we call someone an idiot( which I don't think is that bad) once or maybe a few times we will be banned.

I think everyone understands that feathers get ruffled sometimes and sometimes people break rules by accident. While I can't speak for how other mods would behave, but with a "no personal attacks" rule in the OT forum where things get a little heated sometimes, I don't see myself banning someone for slipping up from time to time as long as they apologize or more importantly show at least a bit of remorse for their actions. Even no response after they are warned is better than Mr_ro_co's responses which stated that he would in no way stop his personal attacks/insults. IMHO that sort of behaviour should not be allowed, but maybe that's just me.

Kal

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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well we all know Rocco had another level of personal attacks way above and beyond than what we all do from time to time.

I can not argue your point there Kal.

Nashou

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looking for a way to avoid something like that in the future. To do that, it has to be in the rules somehow.

While there 'weaselly' words in the rules that state that the mods can "ban or delete users as they see fit without prior consent or cause", I would prefer that it be obvious as to which rules someone is breaking. If the OT forum is turned into a truly "no rules" forum, we don't have a leg to stand on.

Kal

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HogPilot




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Part of the reason we're here today is because of the mandate Mr_ro_co vocally and publicly took on to try and get Ron off this forum. He announced time and time again that he would continually insult and attack Ron personally in the hopes that he would stop posting.

Should personal vendetta's like that be allowed? If we say that the OT has no rules, how can that sort of behaviour not be allowed?


I'm just curious, why does the flip side of this coin always get ignored? I don't think I've ever seen ron contribute to the HT portion of this forum, and most of his posts in the OT forum are to stir the sh*t and get reactions out of people. That - combined with his almost complete inability to have an honest, focused conversation - are reasons why he is the only person on the whole forum with whom I generally avoid engaging. He clearly annoys a large number of people here, makes racist/bigoted comments that have been pointed out by many, many forum members, yet he still remains here. You say Steve was attacking ron, I say Steve was just calling ron out on a very well established pattern of behavior that plenty here are tired of tolerating.

I know that Steve rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but he also had a LOT of great knowledge to offer to the hobby side of things here, which is far more than what can be said about ron's presence here.

Do I think ron should be banned? Nope. But allowing him to stay while banning Steve is the kind of inconsistent policy enforcement that I've been pointing out.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen ron contribute to the HT portion of this forum, and most of his posts in the OT forum are to stir the sh*t and get reactions out of people. He clearly annoys a large number of people here, makes racist/bigoted comments that have been pointed out by many, many forum members, yet he still remains here.

Do I think ron should be banned? Nope.

I would disagree. If Ron breaks the rules then Ron should be warned. If he continuously breaks the rules and doesn't seem to want to change, then after repeated warnings he should be banned.

The rules state that people should not troll (post just to 'stir the sh*t' to get reactions out of people), nor should racist/bigoted posts be allowed (that's breaking the 'insulting others' rule).

Kal

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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:
kal wrote:
Part of the reason we're here today is because of the mandate Mr_ro_co vocally and publicly took on to try and get Ron off this forum. He announced time and time again that he would continually insult and attack Ron personally in the hopes that he would stop posting.

Should personal vendetta's like that be allowed? If we say that the OT has no rules, how can that sort of behaviour not be allowed?


I'm just curious, why does the flip side of this coin always get ignored? I don't think I've ever seen ron contribute to the HT portion of this forum, and most of his posts in the OT forum are to stir the sh*t and get reactions out of people. That - combined with his almost complete inability to have an honest, focused conversation - are reasons why he is the only person on the whole forum with whom I generally avoid engaging. He clearly annoys a large number of people here, makes racist/bigoted comments that have been pointed out by many, many forum members, yet he still remains here. You say Steve was attacking ron, I say Steve was just calling ron out on a very well established pattern of behavior that plenty here are tired of tolerating.

I know that Steve rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but he also had a LOT of great knowledge to offer to the hobby side of things here, which is far more than what can be said about ron's presence here.

Do I think ron should be banned? Nope. But allowing him to stay while banning Steve is the kind of inconsistent policy enforcement that I've been pointing out.


I totally Disagree here. Ron never made it a vendetta to piss off Anyone here. Like Steve did. Two different things.
Rons post are to stimulate discussion, debate and learn from it.

Some here look at his threads as racist, bigoted, and or ignorant. I just do not see it that way .


And Ron does have a to of knowledge as well that he offers, I enjoy most of Rons posts. Not all but most.

nashou

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HogPilot




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
HogPilot wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen ron contribute to the HT portion of this forum, and most of his posts in the OT forum are to stir the sh*t and get reactions out of people. He clearly annoys a large number of people here, makes racist/bigoted comments that have been pointed out by many, many forum members, yet he still remains here.

Do I think ron should be banned? Nope.

I would disagree. If Ron breaks the rules then Ron should be warned. If he continuously breaks the rules and doesn't seem to want to change, then after repeated warnings he should be banned.

The rules state that people should not troll (post just to 'stir the sh*t' to get reactions out of people), nor should racist/bigoted posts be allowed (that's breaking the 'insulting others' rule).

Kal


My "ron shouldn't be banned" remark was based on my position that the OT forum should be unmoderated. But yes, as the rules currently stand in the OT forum, all of those things are not tolerable. Especially when the member is so brazen as to admit to breaking the rules:

ronholm wrote:
More trolling.. the choice to take the bait is yours.


[youtube link removed]


Here's the rub: we already disagree on what is racist/bigoted - see Nash's post above or quoted below. We are talking shades of grey here. But based on the recent poll - and past remarks for numerous forum members - the number of people who find some of his remarks racist is significant.

So where do we draw the line? Who wins out in that scenario? Does any complaint of being offended win out, even if others don't agree that it's offensive? Or do we have to meet some threshold of consensus before someone is deemed as trolling/offensive/etc.?

Nashou66 wrote:
HogPilot wrote:
kal wrote:
Part of the reason we're here today is because of the mandate Mr_ro_co vocally and publicly took on to try and get Ron off this forum. He announced time and time again that he would continually insult and attack Ron personally in the hopes that he would stop posting.

Should personal vendetta's like that be allowed? If we say that the OT has no rules, how can that sort of behaviour not be allowed?


I'm just curious, why does the flip side of this coin always get ignored? I don't think I've ever seen ron contribute to the HT portion of this forum, and most of his posts in the OT forum are to stir the sh*t and get reactions out of people. That - combined with his almost complete inability to have an honest, focused conversation - are reasons why he is the only person on the whole forum with whom I generally avoid engaging. He clearly annoys a large number of people here, makes racist/bigoted comments that have been pointed out by many, many forum members, yet he still remains here. You say Steve was attacking ron, I say Steve was just calling ron out on a very well established pattern of behavior that plenty here are tired of tolerating.

I know that Steve rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, but he also had a LOT of great knowledge to offer to the hobby side of things here, which is far more than what can be said about ron's presence here.

Do I think ron should be banned? Nope. But allowing him to stay while banning Steve is the kind of inconsistent policy enforcement that I've been pointing out.


I totally Disagree here. Ron never made it a vendetta to piss off Anyone here. Like Steve did. Two different things.
Rons post are to stimulate discussion, debate and learn from it.

Some here look at his threads as racist, bigoted, and or ignorant. I just do not see it that way .


And Ron does have a to of knowledge as well that he offers, I enjoy most of Rons posts. Not all but most.

nashou


With the frequency that you cheerlead ron's posts, there is no doubt amongst anyone here that you generally enjoy his presence and posts. There are a lot of people who disagree with you and find ron to be annoying and/or a disturbance here. I think most of those people steer clear of him, but the recent poll makes the forum population's view of his presence clear.

As far as the HT forum goes, ron has made ZERO contribution there. In my time here I have yet to see a single post from him in which he offers useful help to another forum member on an HT topic. We can argue the utility of his copy-n-paste posts in the OT forum all day long, but we will never see eye to eye on that. But there are a significant number of people here who agree that he is an annoyance and offensive, and either the rules on that apply across the board or not at all.

I will give him some credit: as of late he's changed his tune and dropped much of the hyperbole, trolling, and his posts are actually written in a way that make them "legible" (for lack of a better internet term). If that continues - and if he truly demonstrates the ability to have a real, focused, informed conversation - I think a lot of people would welcome that.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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Nashou66




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that poll was bull****. Ron voted for himself too I bet.

And 40 or so people is not a many.


He has made more than ZERO Hog, sorry. And most of it in the Off topic threads. Many here have learned a lot of things from his post ....and most of it is about the behavior of other members here. Including my own. That is a contribution i will defend even if it get's me banned.


Athanasios

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HogPilot




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
I think that poll was bull****. Ron voted for himself too I bet.


Of course ron would vote for himself, he knew he would earn himself a lot of votes to begin with. That way he - or you - can claim the poll was a joke/inaccurate/etc. The bottom line remains that he got more votes than Steve, but more importantly he got 21 votes, and there is no way that you can argue that most of those weren't people legitimately annoyed with him and his intolerance. I know that you really look up to ron, and frankly your bias is so heavy that I don't think you could ever see him as the annoyance here that most do.

Nashou66 wrote:
He has made more than ZERO Hog, sorry. And most of it in the Off topic threads. Many here have learned a lot of things from his post ....and most of it is about the behavior of other members here. Including my own. That is a contribution i will defend even if it get's me banned.


I'll say it again: he has made ZERO contribution to the Home Theater - i.e. projectors, source equipment/material, calibration, audio/video theory, etc. - portion of this forum. If you can dig up a single post where he has offered useful information or help to someone else on the subject of Home Theater, I'd be happy to see it. I certainly haven't in all of my time here. And contrary to what some may think, HT - and Curt's business supporting it - is the primary reason this forum exists. Sure, ron's posted a lot in the OT forum, but there are a large number of people here who disagree with you and find his presence - overall - to be of little value. Steve, on the other hand, contributed quite a bit on the HT side of things, especially in the CRT and audio sub-sections.

This whole discussion has strayed from my original thrust - I don't think the OT forum should be moderated, and I think that both ron and Steve should be allowed to bicker with one another to their heart's content in there. I never saw either of them shy away from responding to or taking a jab at the other, whether it was Steve calling ron an idiot or ron claiming Steve had a poor relationship with his father as a child (which one of those was more of a personal attack, btw?). They're both participating adults - worst case scenario you don't read, or you sit back with your popcorn and enjoy the show.

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ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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HK-Steve




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main reason this forum started was because "The Evil Twin" unfortunately was hacked and Nicholas was no longer able to keep the server space and time to keep it going....
was completely un-moderated and lots of fun and mutual respect for fellow members.

Also another forum, had banned so many members, that this was the perfect place to explore CRT and the experience of so many.


Such a shame it has come to this here, from what is an amazing depth of knowledge, experience and characters.




Cheers
Steve

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El Duderino




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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
I guess what I have a problem understanding is why people feel the need to be able to personally attack someone via insults/threats on the OT forum?

By not allowing it, discussions (even heated ones) should be able to run longer and be more interesting than them turning into name calling after the first few posts.


To me, it's a freedom-of-speech thing. Either you have it or you don't. I'm not hoping it 'goes to' unmoderated with generally no rules, I'm hoping that it stays that way. I'm not there just to insult people. You seemed to be unaware about the sticky you placed on the top of it years ago, but I wasn't, and I suspect many others too. I suspect Roco got caught by this somewhat. I'd agree with him on that.

Allowing politics and religion then saying no 'bickering' just makes me shake my head. Politics IS bickering and starting most any political thread is trolling. It's trolling for an argument, and arguing IS bickering.

Nash recently noted he renewed his club-card. When he did, he stated you responded with 'Enjoy the arguing!". How can he enjoy arguing with a no bickering rule?

Another point would be the mods. I've argued both with and against Steve and Hog on several occasions. I never thought twice about getting heated with Crabb in OT, as I didn't view him as a mod there, as it was expressly stated that there was no moderation in OT. Now, I'd think twice about that.

CP wasn't the only forum started when AVS went tight. WBF also started. I had good discussions, and arguments with both Amir and OB, and I entered a few of them on their new forum, only to quickly realize that I couldn't, as we wasn't on equal ground. OB had a rule against no political threads, yet he'd start them. When we'd get into it, he'd close them or delete posts.

Consider the recent threads on race in OT. One of the arguments was that we couldn't have discussions about them because of PC. I argued that we could, as we were. Yes, it got heated and people were called names, including being called a racist. So what? No discussion on race and racism?

You also mentioned threats and violence. That's clearly outside the lines of free speech, and I think we all know that when we see it, but bickering and name-calling isn't.

I suspect most of us was taught to not call others names, but when we are called names we got the stick-n-stones nursery rhyme.

Now I understand if you say no politics and religion, but if there is an area for such, then I think it should be as it was, "unmoderated with generally no rules". I know you would like to see it clean, but that's like mopping a dirt floor IMO. I think trying to mop a dirt floor just makes mud and they only way to make it clean is to not have a dirt floor.
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:
Of course ron would vote for himself, he knew he would earn himself a lot of votes to begin with. That way he - or you - can claim the poll was a joke/inaccurate/etc. The bottom line remains that he got more votes than Steve, but more importantly he got 21 votes, and there is no way that you can argue that most of those weren't people legitimately annoyed with him and his intolerance.

I don't think anybody would disagree that some people aren't legitimately annoyed with Ron's posts. So what? I'm legitimately annoyed with some of Draganm's posts, and legitimately annoyed with some of Jeffslife's posts, and no doubt some others.

The poll wasn't bull**** as much it just asked the wrong question. There are more than just two people on this forum that are annoying at times. If I could have written the poll, I wouldn't have asked who was more annoying. Instead, I would have asked who was more mean-spirited, condescending, and caustic. I'm confident Steve would have won that poll in a landslide.

HogPilot wrote:
With the frequency that you cheerlead ron's posts, there is no doubt amongst anyone here that you generally enjoy his presence and posts. There are a lot of people who disagree with you and find ron to be annoying and/or a disturbance here. I think most of those people steer clear of him, but the recent poll makes the forum population's view of his presence clear.

Steve HATED it when I did this, but it's perfectly apropos here. Swap Ron's name with Steve's, and your post works perfectly to describe Steve, and your view of him vs. others. It illustrates perfectly the duality of opinions and perspective.

HogPilot wrote:
I know that you really look up to ron, and frankly your bias is so heavy that I don't think you could ever see him as the annoyance here that most do.

Athanasios looks up to him? Come on, that's not only unfair, but not even really accurate. Athanasios simply finds many of Ron's posts interesting and agrees with some of them, just as I do. To be honest, we could say the same about you and Steve - you've basically admitted as much. The reality is that we're all biased towards our preferences and world-views. You, Athanasios, and I just aren't that special. Wink

One thing I don't think you and I see eye-to-eye on at all is the relative value of opinions. In my opinion, except in a very few instances, your opinion just isn't worth that much more than mine, Steve's, or even Ron's. It's one thing if we're talking about something quantitative like amplifier and crossover design and one person has a degree in electrical engineering, or aviation and you're a pilot. But, that isn't remotely the same as discussing race relations and politics. Steve ascribed way more value to his own opinions than he deserved to. To be honest, I think you started to fall into that trap, unfairly diminishing the value of Ron's opinions because of his career or education. There's a definite elitist element to that line of thinking, and frankly it runs counter to the direction I think you've been moving in your world view.

Cheers,
SC
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
HogPilot wrote:
Of course ron would vote for himself, he knew he would earn himself a lot of votes to begin with. That way he - or you - can claim the poll was a joke/inaccurate/etc. The bottom line remains that he got more votes than Steve, but more importantly he got 21 votes, and there is no way that you can argue that most of those weren't people legitimately annoyed with him and his intolerance.

I don't think anybody would disagree that some people aren't legitimately annoyed with Ron's posts. So what? I'm legitimately annoyed with some of Draganm's posts, and legitimately annoyed with some of Jeffslife's posts, and no doubt some others.

The poll wasn't bull**** as much it just asked the wrong question. There are more than just two people on this forum that are annoying at times. If I could have written the poll, I wouldn't have asked who was more annoying. Instead, I would have asked who was more mean-spirited, condescending, and caustic. I'm confident Steve would have won that poll in a landslide.


Sure, and I could have written a poll asking who seemed knowledgable on the wide variety of subjects that they want to discuss, and ron would have received some votes from the standard crowd that agrees with him and not many others. You can write the poll a thousand ways.

I think it's interesting that those who disliked Steve focused on his delivery rather than his message. In fact, outside of the Corvette/GTO discussion, there are few people here who can actually discuss on his level, instead bringing "everyman" arguments that sound great when repeated but carry little legitimacy. I think the heavy focus on his tone rather than what he contributed to the forum - especially to the HT side of things - is narrow in its view.

ecrabb wrote:
HogPilot wrote:
With the frequency that you cheerlead ron's posts, there is no doubt amongst anyone here that you generally enjoy his presence and posts. There are a lot of people who disagree with you and find ron to be annoying and/or a disturbance here. I think most of those people steer clear of him, but the recent poll makes the forum population's view of his presence clear.

Steve HATED it when I did this, but it's perfectly apropos here. Swap Ron's name with Steve's, and your post works perfectly to describe Steve, and your view of him vs. others. It illustrates perfectly the duality of opinions and perspective.


Hardly. I'll even invite you to go back and look at ron's posts and read how many "LOL" or emoticon-only responses - or responses of any type - that Nash tags on immediately, post after post. He blows me out of the water in pure frequency, and often there's no quality to them either. If I ever did respond to Steve's posts, it was usually with something substantive or to add to it, but Nash, by far, takes the cheerleader cake in this instance. Of course, I've already admitted - and am admitting once again - that sharing not only many of Steve's views but also his significant military background biases me heavily in his favor. Perhaps Nash would do the same, unless he thinks he has no bias.

ecrabb wrote:
HogPilot wrote:
I know that you really look up to ron, and frankly your bias is so heavy that I don't think you could ever see him as the annoyance here that most do.

Athanasios looks up to him? Come on, that's not only unfair, but not even really accurate. Athanasios simply finds many of Ron's posts interesting and agrees with some of them, just as I do. To be honest, we could say the same about you and Steve - you've basically admitted as much. The reality is that we're all biased towards our preferences and world-views. You, Athanasios, and I just aren't that special. Wink

One thing I don't think you and I see eye-to-eye on at all is the relative value of opinions. In my opinion, except in a very few instances, your opinion just isn't worth that much more than mine, Steve's, or even Ron's. It's one thing if we're talking about something quantitative like amplifier and crossover design and one person has a degree in electrical engineering, or aviation and you're a pilot. But, that isn't remotely the same as discussing race relations and politics. Steve ascribed way more value to his own opinions than he deserved to. To be honest, I think you started to fall into that trap, unfairly diminishing the value of Ron's opinions because of his career or education. There's a definite elitist element to that line of thinking, and frankly it runs counter to the direction I think you've been moving in your world view.

Cheers,
SC


As I find myself continually saying, opinions are only as good as the expertise, life experiences, and education behind them. And I don't find ron's continual name-dropping or braggadocio in lieu of knowledge that is rigorously challenged (in much more learned and experienced circles, mind you) to be anything but distractionary in nature, especially when he repeatedly shirks from providing proof of the very things that he tossed out so as to heavily lean on for his positions.

You and I disagree fairly regularly, but at least you're capable of forming a cogent argument based on facts derived from seemingly reasonable sources, and you can do it without interjecting hyperbole, cut-n-paste nonsense, and completely irrelevant information into the argument as ron often has to when he's pinned down or out of his element. No where that I've ever seen in the "big boy" world is that sort of debating considered useful or acceptable. Except, of course, in Washington. I don't find it to be intelligent, honest, or challenging; it's dishonest, obfuscatory, and distractionary.

I'm sure you and I can continue to argue ron's "usefulness" around here, but there are plenty of people who feel as I do, and I know that neither you nor Nash will be one of them any time soon.

All that said, I for one moment don't believe that 1) the OT forum should be moderated on any level, and 2) being not moderated, that anyone should be kicked out of it. I agree with El Duderino: you either have free speech, or you don't. There's really no in between there.

_________________
ecrabb wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

SC
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-Pjackso




Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 791
Location: Oklahoma


PostLink    Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For consideration:
How about an automated user initiated ban option.
You can only vote for "auto-ban" for attacking/insulting posts.

Each member only gets 1 vote per week to use. (unused votes do not accumulate)
You must have 7 votes (against you) within a week for the auto-ban to engage.
The auto-ban only lasts for 5 day lockout from the forum.
At the beginning of each week - everyone's balance is cleared. (for people with less than 7 votes)

Auto-banned people can petition mods for unfair/uncalled-for banning.
This would relieve a lot of work/hassle from the mods.


(above numbers for example purposes. number may be customized of course)

_________________
-Nothing relevant to add.


Last edited by -Pjackso on Wed Apr 01, 2015 2:05 am; edited 1 time in total
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