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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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 Link Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: Looking for input from some smart cookies or smart people. |
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OK, so I picked up a Vivix II processor (DHD version) for converting sources like LaserDisc etc to 720P. I wanted a Vivix II based on reviews specifically related to older content performance.
After purchase, I realized this was one for a plasma panel.
With trickery in the service menu, I can eventually get it to generate a picture and take a source, but it takes about 5 minutes or so worth of tinkering and flipping through output settings.
I attempted to make some changes to the board based on estimation, but lost output completely, and had to revert my changes.
There has to be someone out there who knows how to modify this further, as I have found historical sales that show units that have been modified to work stand alone, but no details can be turned up.
This is definitely a great scaler for old mediums! I'd just like a little more reliability in getting it to display a picture.
Attached are some photos to show i'm not joshing around 
Last edited by CSX on Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:07 am Post subject: |
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The processor is connected via the RGBHV cables to the projector, btw.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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| Link Posted: Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | | I dont understand why it won't work with the CRT PJ as is? I had a Mitsubishi VP built specifically for their plasma. it had RGBHV outs as well that worked fine on my marquee. |
Fixed output resolutions would be my guess. Some old ED plasmas were 1024x1024, 1024x768, 1280x768, etc. and some scalers were purpose-designed to support only those resolutions. I'd guess this is one of those, and that the available output resolutions just aren't very well-suited to CRT.
That said, I'm really not sure it's worth the hassle. Vivix scaling was all the rage, what a decade ago? While I'm sure it was very good for its time, it's not much of a leap of faith to assume that not much later, solutions that were as good or better arrived. It's really easy to get caught up reading an article from 2003 or whatever about a piece of technology that was God's gift to whatever at the time (OMG, this thing is worth every penny at $10,000!!!), but you also have to remember consumer electronics is a highly-competitive marketplace, and save for a few exceptions, usually stuff comes along a few years later (or less) that's easier, cheaper, and better. Such is the case with scaling. What was once a standalone processor that cost as much as a car is now built into a few pieces of silicon that can be purchased by OEMs in quantity for a few bucks.
I can't imagine a lowly VisionPro HDP wouldn't offer a far superior experience, with more configurability, better support (any support at all would be better), and to be quite honest, probably better scaling, too. In fact, I'd bet the SD scaling in an older Lumagen is at least as good as the Vivix (if not better), and I wouldn't be surprised if the Qdeo scaling in an Oppo or even the Reon scaling in a <$500 AV receiver isn't far superior.
Just my two cents.
SC
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| Nashou66 wrote: | I dont understand why it won't work with the CRT PJ as is? I had a Mitsubishi VP built specifically for their plasma. it had RGBHV outs as well that worked fine on my marquee.
Nashou |
The manual calls for the TV to be placed in the DVI out plug, and connected via the internal RS232 COM port.
My guess is that there is a COM handshake that happens before allowing output to happen.
Tom foolery in the output menu and display settings eventually gets the unit to give up blocking the output.
As for resolutions, there are tons in the service menu, each work fine (after the unit "unlocks")
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | Nashou66 wrote: | | I dont understand why it won't work with the CRT PJ as is? I had a Mitsubishi VP built specifically for their plasma. it had RGBHV outs as well that worked fine on my marquee. |
Fixed output resolutions would be my guess. Some old ED plasmas were 1024x1024, 1024x768, 1280x768, etc. and some scalers were purpose-designed to support only those resolutions. I'd guess this is one of those, and that the available output resolutions just aren't very well-suited to CRT.
That said, I'm really not sure it's worth the hassle. Vivix scaling was all the rage, what a decade ago? While I'm sure it was very good for its time, it's not much of a leap of faith to assume that not much later, solutions that were as good or better arrived. It's really easy to get caught up reading an article from 2003 or whatever about a piece of technology that was God's gift to whatever at the time (OMG, this thing is worth every penny at $10,000!!!), but you also have to remember consumer electronics is a highly-competitive marketplace, and save for a few exceptions, usually stuff comes along a few years later (or less) that's easier, cheaper, and better. Such is the case with scaling. What was once a standalone processor that cost as much as a car is now built into a few pieces of silicon that can be purchased by OEMs in quantity for a few bucks.
I can't imagine a lowly VisionPro HDP wouldn't offer a far superior experience, with more configurability, better support (any support at all would be better), and to be quite honest, probably better scaling, too. In fact, I'd bet the SD scaling in an older Lumagen is at least as good as the Vivix (if not better), and I wouldn't be surprised if the Qdeo scaling in an Oppo or even the Reon scaling in a <$500 AV receiver isn't far superior.
Just my two cents.
SC |
I guess I'll just keep my eyes on the lookout for a good deal. I'll finish installing the audio gear in my HT first, then probably invest in a different processor if I can't get this one to behave.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:18 am Post subject: Re: Looking for input from some smart cookies or smart peopl |
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| CSX wrote: | OK, so I picked up a Vivix II processor (DMD version) for converting sources like LaserDisc etc to 720P. I wanted a Vivix II based on reviews specifically related to older content performance.
After purchase, I realized this was one for a plasma panel.
With trickery in the service menu, I can eventually get it to generate a picture and take a source, but it takes about 5 minutes or so worth of tinkering and flipping through output settings.
I attempted to make some changes to the board based on estimation, but lost output completely, and had to revert my changes.
There has to be someone out there who knows how to modify this further, as I have found historical sales that show units that have been modified to work stand alone, but no details can be turned up.
This is definitely a great scaler for old mediums! I'd just like a little more reliability in getting it to display a picture.
Attached are some photos to show i'm not joshing around |
What are you connecting it to?
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:52 am Post subject: Re: Looking for input from some smart cookies or smart peopl |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | CSX wrote: | OK, so I picked up a Vivix II processor (DMD version) for converting sources like LaserDisc etc to 720P. I wanted a Vivix II based on reviews specifically related to older content performance.
After purchase, I realized this was one for a plasma panel.
With trickery in the service menu, I can eventually get it to generate a picture and take a source, but it takes about 5 minutes or so worth of tinkering and flipping through output settings.
I attempted to make some changes to the board based on estimation, but lost output completely, and had to revert my changes.
There has to be someone out there who knows how to modify this further, as I have found historical sales that show units that have been modified to work stand alone, but no details can be turned up.
This is definitely a great scaler for old mediums! I'd just like a little more reliability in getting it to display a picture.
Attached are some photos to show i'm not joshing around |
What are you connecting it to? |
Marquee 9500LC via RGBHV. No serial cables involved.
Laserdisc and DVD into scaler.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:57 am Post subject: |
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Are those inputs DVI-I or just -D
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| macgyver655 wrote: | | Are those inputs DVI-I or just -D |
High probability DVI-D
That's all I can find anyways.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:16 am Post subject: |
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So the inputs on the scaler look like 1 or 2, not 3 or 4?
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:36 am Post subject: |
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The port actually looks like the DVI-I Dual Link style.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:05 am Post subject: |
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And which one does your laser disc player output look like?
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm using Svideo 1 port for that.
Component-SD for DVD
And as of about 5 min ago, am currently testing DVI 1 with an adapter to a Blu Ray player for testing.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:13 am Post subject: |
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| CSX wrote: | I'm using Svideo 1 port for that.
Component-SD for DVD
And as of about 5 min ago, am currently testing DVI 1 with an adapter to a Blu Ray player for testing. |
So the laser disc player hookup works ok?
And now you have the bluray working with an adapter?
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:23 am Post subject: |
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Well, everything works just fine once you get the output to work.
The problem is, even if the unit is turned off, you have to go into the service menu and adjust the RGB output type a few times, then turn it on and off a couple of times then change around the output from DVI to RGB.
Sometimes you have to flip the power on and off, and the chances of you getting an output increases with a factory reset.
Getting video output isn't exactly easy, but it eventually works.-
Runco made several different spec units. 1. Stand alone, 2. Plasma, 3. Projector.
The chassis and boards are identical.
The service menu is accessed with hitting ENTER, LEFT, LEFT, RIGHT RIGHT, ENTER, when you are on the first blank space.
There's a second blank space, and a third blank space that I can get to appear sometimes, maybe there is a factory spec unit there somehow...
Now I'm just speculating...
I haven't made any further hardware changes since I re-soldered a few things I removed.
I thought about calling runco, but I don't even know if they would give 5 cents to the thought of the issue.
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macgyver655
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:53 am Post subject: |
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I would think that when using the Svideo and component input and RGB output it should work fine. HDCP shouldn't come into play until using a DVI port. And seeing how fiddling sometimes gets it to work it makes me wonder if there might be a relay problem. Do you hear any clicking when making any changes?
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CSX
Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 142
Location: Ohio
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| Link Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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After the video output is unlocked, then yes, and everything works well.
The outputs don't work on turn on because it's expecting a runco plasma panel to talk back to it, and were designed to only operate with their equipment, at least that's really only all I can find.
| macgyver655 wrote: | | I would think that when using the Svideo and component input and RGB output it should work fine. HDCP shouldn't come into play until using a DVI port. And seeing how fiddling sometimes gets it to work it makes me wonder if there might be a relay problem. Do you hear any clicking when making any changes? |
Last edited by CSX on Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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