CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

john t · Joined: 02 Feb 2015 Posts: 8

I just got my g90 set and it has the 3d ready moome card on it. I'm dealing with it being dim from the straight signal from my satellite. I was told it'll be a little dim from the card but the screen just doesn't pop like an dlp projector or plasma flatscreen. Even the Epson 2000.00 projector is sharper and brighter. Am I asking to much from crt? Or is 1080p24 that much better of a signal things just look better? I was really hoping that I speant the money on the moome card and a nice set from Curt would compete. But now it looks like I can spend another bundle of money and get a scaler to see if that does it. Do I just move on or can I get that pop that's expected these days out of electronics?

ecrabb · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:59 am Post subject:

A CRT will generally not be as bright or as sharp as most digitals, but set up correctly, on a decent screen, a G90 should make a stunning picture. What it lacks in sharpness and brightness, it should more than make up for with gorgeous color and eye-popping black level and contrast that wipes the floor with an Epson LCD. If sharpness and brightness are priorities, and contrast and color are not, then CRT probably isn't for you.

What screen size and material are you using? What is the contrast setting on the G90?

SC

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 4:59 am Post subject:

The G90 will take a 1080p 60 signal. The only one it won't take is the 1080p 24.

You can adjust the color saturation from the service menu. You don't HAVE to have the fancy scaler to do that. You will need one to get from 1080p24fps to 1080p60fps but you can get a good used Lumagen like the one that just went on eBay for $100 or so to do that OR get a different satellite box that can output 1080p/60.

If you spend the time tweaking that beast just right it will look fantastic. Combined with the Moome card's gamma boost and you will have a great picture.
It just takes a little time.

What screen are you running? What is the gain on it? I've seen G90's in action and while they don't have the artificial sharpness of digital they are plenty bright. Especially on a good screen.

Plus no annoying trails or rainbows like DLP

CasetheCorvetteman · Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia

No reason a G90 shouldnt be very bright...

Spanky Ham · Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central

Not sure what to say if you have seen the other pj tech. A G90 isn't going to look like a DLP, because the ANSI cr is drastically different. Also, if you want a bright image then you are going to have to have a high gain screen.

john t · Joined: 02 Feb 2015 Posts: 8

I'm not sure of the material. It's a Day-lite screen. White. Not sure of the gains. My other Sony sets seemed brighter n more pop than this one. I'm not sure whatI'm doing wrong then. All I can figure is iit's the moome card like I was told. I'm putting my contrast up at about 60 and around there with the brightness. Don't get me wrong, the colors are there but the whole screen doesn't just pop. It's like looking at a good tv that turned down. My screen size is 96" wide 4:3 set up. And I will try the saturation in the service menu tomorrow.
On the moome card, what exactly is the gamma boost doing? I have not touched those settings at all. I know there's two adjustments...

gnnash · Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN

I don't know about a G90, but I know on my old 1271 and my 1209s, I have to turn the brightness WAY below where you have it in order to get a proper black level, that should help quite a bit to increase depth of the picture.

Starting out with a simple calibration from Digital Video Essentials, an AVS 709 disc, or even the built-in test patterns on Sony blu-rays should help you to get a much better picture than out-of-the-box.

Keep in mind, with a CRT, adjusting the "contrast" control adjusts the intensity (or brightness, really) of white, and adjusting the "brightness" control adjusts the intensity of the picture near black (kinda counter intuitive). So adjusting the brightness to a higher level will not help the picture "pop" by any means, it will just wash out the image. On the machines that I have played with, brightness needs to be down around 30 or so for a proper black level and better depth.

Nashou66 · Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY

What gnnash said .

+1

Nashou

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject:

CIR Engineering · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:17 pm Post subject:

What are you settings for red, green, and blue bias and gain? What about gamma in the G90 menu? What are your contrast and brightness settings.

I don't recommend using any gamma correction on the G90 with the Moome card. The G90 is the only front projection CRT that has full gamma control built into the projector. The gamma on the G90 is usually much lower than any other CRT projector and the Moome can only make the gamma even lower. Lower gamma equals brighter image while higher gamma equals darker image with more depth (very simplified). The gamma on the G90 gets too low if you correct gamma on the Moome board and this will certainly take away depth and pop.

Also, the Moome board will not make the picture dimmer or have less pop so I am not sure what you are referring to? Reed the manual for the Moome card and make sure your card is set to 16-235 or "A" on the Moome remote.

craigr

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject:

CIR Engineering · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject:

mp20748 · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject:

You're right Craig. The G90 is the only, and that gamma system is done right

john t · Joined: 02 Feb 2015 Posts: 8

Thanks a ton Craig. I just hope I can get the expectations out of this Sony. I've been looking around and it just seems crt projection is out of date and it's struggling really hard to keep up. I love projectors and the new stuff is looking sweet. I just hope I really didn't waste my money on something that is just not going to compete. I'm just discouraged with the whole new signal issues and I really thought a nice crt could out do a digital projector. Crt used to be the way to go.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 9:30 pm Post subject:

Well, any mainstream video reference person is going to be under the belief that CRT is dead and not capable. That is totally untrue and most folks today don't understand CRT's capabilities. Manufacturers and retail outlets have no reason to promote CRT because they are much more expensive to build and they are not being sold in stores new anymore (also manu digitals are lighter, smaller, easier to set up). That leads to sales people being literally ignorant.

Current CRT enthusiasts in my mind come in two primary flavors or a mix of the two. You either are going with CRT because you can get some incredible images out of even less desirable and inexpensive (or free) projectors, or you want the very best video you can get.

I work as a subcontractor for a lot of ultra high end home automation and theater installers and integrators. I'm talking about home systems that fall somewhere between $250,000.00 all the way over $3,000,000.00 on some systems. What you may find surprising is that the owners of many of these high end shops still keep their own CRT (or CRT stack or blend) in their own theaters at home. I also work for a lot of individuals who are into movies in some capacity (I have several producer and actor clients) or another and many of them still insist on using CRT in their own home theaters. This is similar to me too, I have a G90 and love it even though I work on new digital projectors that cost close to $100,000 regularly and even more sometimes. When I get home after working on the new ultra high end digitals I am always amazed at how much more I like the image from my G90. One of my clients who has a nice digital and a G90 in the same theater told me that watching the G90 is "like getting a hug." The video just looked so much more natural on the G90 to him.

So if you are willing to take your time, learn, tweak, throw in TLC, you can get a reference quality image out of a G90 that will give any projector out there a run for its money.

Have fun but stay patient.

craigr

john t · Joined: 02 Feb 2015 Posts: 8

Honestly I've gotten some amazing results out of my Sony 1031 I put new tubes in and my 1231 as well. I guess I just gotta tweak. I'm actually working with the set now. Adjust the gains and bias. I had not touched these settings yet. How do I know where it's good? My bias were g-215 r-134 b-134. Green seemed way hi...

john t · Joined: 02 Feb 2015 Posts: 8

Dam, my gains were up around 200ish on all. I put everything Bach down at 128 and I will start there. So far on 1080i it's looking better. My contrast is up about 70 and 50 on the brightness.

john t · Joined: 02 Feb 2015 Posts: 8

Dam, my gains were up around 200ish on all. I put everything Bach down at 128 and I will start there. So far on 1080i it's looking better. My contrast is up about 80 and 50 on the brightness. It's starting to look right now. I didn't realize those settings were so far off.

stridsvognen · Guest

A good start point is to put up a low level test pattern, like the 5% window from the HD basic disc.

Look into the tubes and set all 3 to a level where you can see the bars on the side, but dont elevate black around it.

CIR Engineering · Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:45 pm Post subject: