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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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 Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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I had my hardware backwards... the HR34 and HR44 are DTV boxes not DISH. I do know that DISH does brodcast some VOD and PPV too, but I can't remember which boxes can do it.
Tom, I had a VIP722 and it could not do 1080p 24Hz. So unless this has been added in firmware I don't think the 722 can do 1080p 24Hz.
craigr
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| ecrabb wrote: | | CIR Engineering wrote: | | I would suggest that your client just not use the 24Hz feature in DISH. He can go into his DISH menu and disable 24Hz. |
That's exactly what I'd suggest. Just disable 1080p for now.
| CIR Engineering wrote: | | Whenever there is a movie in 24Hz 1080p, there is (I think always) the same movie on DISH at 1080i 60Hz. He just needs to click on the correct version for 1080i 60Hz. That is what I would recommend in this situation. |
I don't think there are multiple versions of the movies broadcast. The bandwidth is too precious. I think they're either broadcasting some content (like PPV) in 1080p/24 and then telecining it to 1080i if that resolution is selected (just like a BD player does), or more likely, it's broadcast as 1080i, displayed that way on the older boxes, or on the newer boxes with 1080p selected, the video hardware ITC's it back to 1080p/24. That's my educated guess, anyway.
| CIR Engineering wrote: | | If he's new to the G90 than the last thing he needs right now is more complexity with a VP. |
Agreed. Just set the box to 1080i for the time being, and wait for a deal on an HDQ to make 1080p/60 out of the DISH 1080i/60 output. The quality of satellite content is pretty marginal anyway, so even though the G90 will show scan lines at 1080i, it's better than nothing right now, and it's free. Then, get comfortable with the G90 and wait for a deal on an HDQ that can take 1080i/60 and /24 and make 1080p/60 out of it.
Besides the HDQ option, there's also another option that nobody's mentioned. Most newer AV receivers will take a 1080i input and output 1080p. I ran that way with the G70 before I went digital. It's no Lumagen, but even something like a Onkyo TX-NR636 (under $500) has Marvell Qdeo scaling and can easily upscale a 1080i input to 1080p. Like I said, satellite video quality isn't that great to begin with, so a decent scaler isn't going to hurt it any - especially if it's just doing an ITC on a 24hz-encoded 1080i source.
Cheers,
SC |
Totally agree with everything here. A receiver that can deinterlace 1080i to p would be perfect. Deinterlacing is relatively easy now with modern chips (especially for low quality sat) that if all you want to do is make sat 1080p, a receiver or an older Lumagen will both do an OK job. I think the simplicity of the receiver is a better option in this case.
The real question is what should he do with 720p? Again, the receiver can convert to 1080p here. However, the scaling won't be as good. That being said it's not like most 720p content looks all that good on sat. I think ABC and ESPN are the only 720p stations that actually have decent video quality. FOX is terrible as are most of the other 720p stations (of which there are few). So even here a receiver isn't a bad way to go.
I have the option to run 720p native on my own G90, but I hardly ever set it up for any clients. 720p scaled by the Radiance tp 1080p looks better on my G90 than native 720p. Too much scan line visibility even at 720p.
craigr
_________________
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*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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john t
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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I'm with ecrabb with direct tv, however they are ******* and there customer service blows. Plan on paying a ton for there crapass customer service. But less glitches and better pic I think. But due to the problems I have dish network. Very friendly and good customer service and pricing.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffslife wrote: | | OK this is a little off the topic but I have been meaning to ask and this seemed like a good time. Is there a dish receiver that has better PQ than others ? Does anyone have a preference ? |
Since the adoption of mpeg 4, I don't think there is much difference between DISH and DTV for image quality regarding hardware. I think after having both, DTV may look slightly better, but I think it's a broadcast (compression) thing, not the STB.
Both DTV and DISH hardware seems to suffer from color space conversions internally. For example, both my DISH and DTV boxes can output RGB or YCbCr 444 through HDMI at 8-bit. The RGB may be better video quality though because the native signal (or how the STB handles the signal internally) seems to be in an RGB format.
The boxes will output YCbCr by default if they read the EDID from the display and it shows that it has YCbCr 444 capability. You can force the STB back into RGB with an EDID adjustment in the Lumagen, by using an external EDID box, or by pulling the right pins out of your HDMI cable. Honestly though, I usually just let mine output YCbCr 444 because it's not like sat looks all the wonderful anyway.
craigr
_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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john t
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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Cir engineer, I am also interested in setting up my g90 for 3d. I have the moome card but really don't know what all I need. Since it looks like I need a scaler do I need one for hd also? And do you have any used ones that will do 1080p 3d? I read most only offer 720 for the 3d...
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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john t
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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That looks Luke an older one. It only has dvi inputs and outputs. I need this to work with my moome card which is hdmi. Will that lumagen hdp work?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| john t wrote: | | Cir engineer, I am also interested in setting up my g90 for 3d. I have the moome card but really don't know what all I need. Since it looks like I need a scaler do I need one for hd also? And do you have any used ones that will do 1080p 3d? I read most only offer 720 for the 3d... |
At present, the best 3D resolution for CRT single projector 3D is 720p running at 96Hz with a lot of extra blanking. The only video processors that can do this with your Moome 3D output are the Lumagen XS+ and XE+. I moderated the relationship between Moome and Lumagen so that the Moome card can read the Lumagen 3D protocol on the XD, XS, and XE.
The Lumagen 20xx and 21xx can also do 3D on CRT, but you will need to have a 3D output fitted directly onto the video processor because due to hardware changes in the Lumagen, Lumagen could no longer support the 3D protocol for CRT over HDMI. I am the only dealer of Lumagen that offers 3D outputs onboard the 20xx and 21xx with a full Lumagen backed warranty.
The 2143 and 2144 have the bandwidth to run 1080p 96Hz for CRT 3D. However, at present there is no HDMI card for CRT that can handle this bandwidth (you will get either snow or no image). If Moome releases a 4k capable card than 1080p 96Hz would be possible. This may never happen though. However, Moome and I have been talking about doing this for the G90 for some time now.
If you are looking at higher end Lumagen's than look for a PLUS model (XS+, XE+, 2020+, 2021+ or 21xx nonplus). This way you can run higher quality 3D and also run 1080p 72Hz for your 24Hz sources. 72Hz is an even multiple of 24Hz so when you watch 24Hz sources there will be no judder distortion (even film rate) and you will get a much better picture due to better motion.
craigr
_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Link Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| john t wrote: | | That looks Luke an older one. It only has dvi inputs and outputs. I need this to work with my moome card which is hdmi. Will that lumagen hdp work? |
Yes HDMI to DVI cables will get you there.
How do you have your audio run?
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AnalogRocks
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Did you win the bidding on this one?
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john t
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:52 am Post subject: |
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| john t wrote: | | That looks Luke an older one. It only has dvi inputs and outputs. I need this to work with my moome card which is hdmi. Will that lumagen hdp work? |
Also the hdp only excerpts up to a 1080i signal. I want to take the true clean 1080p24 signal and change it to 1080p50 or 60.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:01 am Post subject: |
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| john t wrote: | | john t wrote: | | That looks Luke an older one. It only has dvi inputs and outputs. I need this to work with my moome card which is hdmi. Will that lumagen hdp work? |
Also the hdp only excerpts up to a 1080i signal. I want to take the true clean 1080p24 signal and change it to 1080p50 or 60. |
So you didn't get it then?
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john t
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:03 am Post subject: |
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I did not. Unfortunately I don't want something that can't except the 1080p24 signal. The hdp only is up to 1080i. I guess I'm looking for a 20xx plus series . Used hopefully. Lol. After the picture I saw come thru with 1080p24 I don't want to compromise. So if anyone knows of some and can tl me some prices so I can save up I would really appreciate it. Everyone has been so cool and helpful here. Thanks a bunch.
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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| john t wrote: | | I did not. Unfortunately I don't want something that can't except the 1080p24 signal. The hdp only is up to 1080i. I guess I'm looking for a 20xx plus series . Used hopefully. Lol. After the picture I saw come thru with 1080p24 I don't want to compromise. So if anyone knows of some and can tl me some prices so I can save up I would really appreciate it. Everyone has been so cool and helpful here. Thanks a bunch. |
'
The HDP Pro WILL accept a 1080p/24 signal. That's why I gave you the heads up on it. I discarded any model that coulnd't take a 1080p/24 signal into it.
I wouldn't steer you wrong.
From the Lumagen change log site for firmware: http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=updates_latest
"Production Release 122206- Adds support for 1080-24p, 1080-25p and 1080-30p as input sources on all the current units.
Works great with Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player. The only caveat is that if you're running HDMI into a receiver/audio processor before the Lumagen you'll likely find it doesn't like 1080-24p and won't get a picture that way. So you may have to decide between using coax/optical audio outputs with 1080-24p video going direct to the Lumagen vs. HDMI audio and 1080i going through the receiver to the Lumagen. To get 1080-24p to come out of the Sony you need to make a couple of settings on the Sony and your Lumagen, see the <faq> for how to set things up. There were also a few other small bug fixes."
Too bad you missed that one. Good price.
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john t
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:32 am Post subject: |
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I looked in the manual for it and it also said only 1080i. I couldn't take the chance. What about those dvdo duo scaler? There 700 new and will except hdmi and the 1080p24. I think it'll output 1080p72 also. But I have to check.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2857
Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| AnalogRocks wrote: | | john t wrote: | | I did not. Unfortunately I don't want something that can't except the 1080p24 signal. The hdp only is up to 1080i. I guess I'm looking for a 20xx plus series . Used hopefully. Lol. After the picture I saw come thru with 1080p24 I don't want to compromise. So if anyone knows of some and can tl me some prices so I can save up I would really appreciate it. Everyone has been so cool and helpful here. Thanks a bunch. |
'
The HDP Pro WILL accept a 1080p/24 signal. That's why I gave you the heads up on it. I discarded any model that coulnd't take a 1080p/24 signal into it.
I wouldn't steer you wrong.
From the Lumagen change log site for firmware: http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=updates_latest
"Production Release 122206- Adds support for 1080-24p, 1080-25p and 1080-30p as input sources on all the current units.
Works great with Sony BDP-S1 Blu-ray player. The only caveat is that if you're running HDMI into a receiver/audio processor before the Lumagen you'll likely find it doesn't like 1080-24p and won't get a picture that way. So you may have to decide between using coax/optical audio outputs with 1080-24p video going direct to the Lumagen vs. HDMI audio and 1080i going through the receiver to the Lumagen. To get 1080-24p to come out of the Sony you need to make a couple of settings on the Sony and your Lumagen, see the <faq> for how to set things up. There were also a few other small bug fixes."
Too bad you missed that one. Good price. |
The advice is correct Lumagen HDP PRO definitely accepts 1080p/24 I have one and thats exactly how its setup.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| john t wrote: | | I looked in the manual for it and it also said only 1080i. I couldn't take the chance. What about those dvdo duo scaler? There 700 new and will except hdmi and the 1080p24. I think it'll output 1080p72 also. But I have to check. |
The VisionHDP, VisionHDQ, and VisionPRO will all accept 1080p 24Hz. They will not accept 1080p 60Hz, but they can output 1080p 60Hz with no problem. They are perfect for deinterlacing 1080i to 1080p, converting 1080p 24Hz to 1080p 60Hz, and scaling 720p to 1080p 60Hz.
To use HDMI you just use an adapter:
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10419&cs_id=1041902&p_id=2029&seq=1&format=2
I would certainly take a Lumagen over any DVDO because the DVDO image quality is inferior in almost every way.
I might have an HDQ here that would work for you. I have to check it and make sure it works because I just got it in on a trade. It would be $265 shipped if functional.
craigr
_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Are there any issues with those converters and HDCP?
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Zolzar
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 252
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| Link Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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I can sell you my Lunagen Vision HDP for $150 plus shipping from New Jersey. I don't need it as I already have another scaler. RGBHV and DVI. This was Curs at one time. His name on the box. Remote, manual and power supply are all there. Unit is I excellent condition.
PM me if you are interested.
John
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