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Ecrabb's Theater v2
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:07 am    Post subject: Ecrabb's Theater v2 Reply with quote


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OK, here we go. I mentioned that I'd moved and left my old theater behind. For reference, here's my old room:
http://ecrabb.com/ht/

It was 13x18, double-drywall with green glue, Integrity Gasket on the framing, and basic acoustic treatments. Projector was a 1271 when the room was first finished, I upgraded to a G70 later and used that for a few years, then to a JVC RS45 for the last couple of years. I sold the speakers, projector, screen, six recliners, and the acoustic panels, so other than my subs, amps, and sources, I'm starting with a completely blank slate.

The new house has a completely unfinished basement, so a totally blank slate. Last time around, I built the theater and then left the basement unfinished for years, which was a mistake. This time, we're going to do it all at the same time. Basement will be about an 1100 sqft total finish with about 380 sqft of that in the theater, a den w/sleeper sofa outside the theater for guest overflow sleeping (without dedicating the square footage to a fifth bedroom we'll use half a dozen times a year), a game room with fridge, wet bar, some sort of booth or banquette game table, and a MAME cocktail table (always wanted one), and a full bath between the bar/game room and den.

The new basement has a perfect space in the "dead-end" part of the basement with no windows, and it's under the kitchen and living room, not a bedroom. The space's gross dimensions are about 15'6" x 24'6" x 9' tall. My old room width of 13' made it just a bit tight for three recliners wide. My wife really wants seating for eight in the new room, so I'll probably be just as tight with two rows of four as I was in the old room with two rows of three. Rolling Eyes Oh well. It's never enough. So, the goals for the room are as follows:

- Seating for 8 with comfortable recliners
- Nice, clean aesthetic that matches or complements the rest of the basement and house
- False wall hiding main speakers and subs
- 10-foot wide Scope screen, audio-transparent
- Horizontal masking for narrower aspect ratios
- Good room ventilation so it doesn't get hot with 6-8 people in the room
- All source, switching, and amplification in rack outside room
- Projector hidden in soffit; actively cooled
- 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos
- Very large, high-efficiency main speakers
- Medium-sized, wide-dispersion surrounds and Atmos speakers

My old room had bookshelf-sized THX Select speakers with soft-dome tweeters. I also had the center channel about two feet off the floor under the screen, and audio always sucked in the second row, and I never liked how the dialog sounded with the compromised center that the screen forced. This time, I'm doing it right with a taller riser for better sight lines, and a big, high-efficiency mains for the "big" sound that small speakers just can't replicate. More on that later.

I'm considering how far I want to go with sound isolation. I didn't do hat channel and RSIC clips in the old room, both to save construction time, complexity, and expense, but also to save on space. Every inch counted the old room. I think if I use a smaller recliner, I'll have the inches I need if I want to clips and channel, but I'm still working on the details of the wall construction.

The house is in the foothills of the Oquirrh mountains west of Salt Lake City, has views of the Oquirhhs and the Wasatch mountain range to the east, and has a bit of a mountain feel to the design and furniture. Most of the new furniture we've purchased I'd call sort of "rustic modern". The theater will likely follow that theme.

I'll throw a few images in the next post to illustrate the rough design as it stands currently.

Name is tentatively either The Black Ridge Cinema or The Muir, both references to where I live. The name, like other aspects of the room, may change. Wink

Tentative schedule is finalizing the design in January and February, starting on framing and electrical in March, and hoping to watch movies by Thanksgiving 2015.

Merry Christmas, everybody!

Cheers,
SC


Last edited by ecrabb on Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Existing basement
All walls in this plan are load-bearing.




2. Basement Finish Rough Concept
Pretty rough, but starting to get it fleshed out. Kitchenette/bar area definitely needs work.




3. Theater Rough Concept
Soffit plan is very rough. Need to measure for existing HVAC ducting to see how big the soffit nearest and parallel to the utility room will need to be, then mirror that size on the opposite side of the room. Circle and squares at the back of the room are bar-height table and two chairs. Projector will go in empty soffit above that table. Closet mirrored on the bottom-right corner of the room keeps the room symmetrical and acts as media storage. Door to the room and to the storage will both be heavy solid-core with sealed jambs.



SC
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love it so far. Nothing I see that needs to be addressed. But I am sure there probably is.


The room dimensions are close to mine. 15.5 x 30. I bet with the false wall which the sound waves will take into consideration might be even make it closer to mine.



Athanasios

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your room is the same width, Nash? What do you have for seating and how does the space work?

Thanks!

SC
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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

here is my seat layout. I dont have stools in the back but I did plane that as you did.




My front seats a set at 14 feet from front wall were your head would be if seat is upright.


I could fit 4 and wish I did as now as now I can't find a matching seat. Sad

I may try to build one. The second row are seats circa 1950 from an old movie theater that shut down
in a small village near Buffalo. There are 5 seats there. Also my rows are not were not centered as I had a
post next to the front row on the right side. So my screen as well id of centered just a bit.

But your set up should work fine. You might even want to try to curve the second row. I have 20 inches on my left side from second row to wall. that is fine for going up and down.

Athanasios

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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm glad to see someone doing "curved" seating in their theater. I've been thinking about doing exactly this, and as Nash suggested, also with the back row.

So far I think it looks great crabb, what is the small triangle in the bottom right corner of your HT layout? Audio rack closet?

Can't wait to see how it turns out Very Happy

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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wanted to do a curved row in both rows, but I'm afraid it'll be a little tight to walk around with the column and door by that back row. I'll see once I settle on an exact model of chair what I can get away with.

The triangle in the lower-right is media storage behind a closet door. I figured since that back corner was already angled for the door, I'd mirror it on the other side and use it for media storage. All the equipment will be in a 42U rack in the utility space, totally isolated from the theater. That's one of the things I'm really looking forward to in this room - a super-low noise floor. The only thing making any noise will be the projector, and I want to put that in the soffit and have only the lens hole open hopefully.

Thanks for the comments so far! I get wait to get started on it!

SC
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Ecrabb's Theater v2 Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Basement will be about an 1100 sqft total finish with about 380 sqft of that in the theater, a den w/sleeper sofa outside the theater for guest overflow sleeping (without dedicating the square footage to a fifth bedroom we'll use half a dozen times a year), a game room with fridge, wet bar, some sort of booth or banquette game table, and a MAME cocktail table (always wanted one), and a full bath between the bar/game room and den.

What, a bar but no BREWERY??!? Wink

Quote:
The space's gross dimensions are about 15'6" x 24'6" x 9' tall.

Whoa - Perfect for a nice sized scope screen and a couple of rows of seating! (Though 4 seats wide may be a bit tight, depending on the brand you get like you mentioned. I have Jaymar seating and 3 seats is only 94" wide so it's do-able - you be a little over 10 feet wide with 4).

Looking forward to following your build! I like the layout.

Kal

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Curt Palme
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only personal quibble is that given the effort that I put/will put into my room, I demand to sit dead center, and with 4 seats, you don't have that. For that reason only I'd do 3 seats wide, but then again, I live alone and don't entertain much, so if you have more than 4 guests over often, then do the 4 seat wide thing.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point Curt.

Funny enough, in my old HT (at my previous house) I had the same 3 rows of 3 seats, but given the tight space the seats in the front row were actually slightly offset such that in the front row the center position was between seats 1 and 2.

When we set up the HT in the new house a couple of years back I was able to perfectly center both rows so the anal retentiveness in me was finally satisfied, but funny enough, it felt "off" for the first few months of watching movies because I had spent nearly 10 years sitting slightly off center and had gotten used to it! Wink

Kal

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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
My only personal quibble is that given the effort that I put/will put into my room, I demand to sit dead center, and with 4 seats, you don't have that. For that reason only I'd do 3 seats wide, but then again, I live alone and don't entertain much, so if you have more than 4 guests over often, then do the 4 seat wide thing.


Did you consider that his wife was tired of not getting the money shot (I mean seat)? Mr. Green Laughing Seriously, now she is only slightly off center like in Kal's old HT, whereas she used to be more off center.

I truly enjoy the money seat, but I quickly adjust to the other seats. Now, it is a little more difficult in Blendzilla with such a widescreen. Wink
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Spanky Ham



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Ecrabb's Theater v2 Reply with quote

kal wrote:
ecrabb wrote:
Basement will be about an 1100 sqft total finish with about 380 sqft of that in the theater, a den w/sleeper sofa outside the theater for guest overflow sleeping (without dedicating the square footage to a fifth bedroom we'll use half a dozen times a year), a game room with fridge, wet bar, some sort of booth or banquette game table, and a MAME cocktail table (always wanted one), and a full bath between the bar/game room and den.

What, a bar but no BREWERY??!? Wink

Kal


I don't want to get this off topic, but have you or anyone else put in a coffee bar with their brewery. I am seeing a huge increase in interest in high end and exotic coffee (or at least that is my perception).
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
What, a bar but no BREWERY??!? Wink

I wish, Kal! I've done a little home-brewing over the years off and on, and I can honestly say that I love drinking it much more than making it. Also, to say I don't need anymore expensive hobbies is probably an understatement. Wink

kal wrote:
Quote:
The space's gross dimensions are about 15'6" x 24'6" x 9' tall.

Whoa - Perfect for a nice sized scope screen and a couple of rows of seating! (Though 4 seats wide may be a bit tight, depending on the brand you get like you mentioned. I have Jaymar seating and 3 seats is only 94" wide so it's do-able - you be a little over 10 feet wide with 4).

Looking forward to following your build! I like the layout.

Yep, that's what I'm hoping... Just a little tight, but not too tight... Wait, that's what she said! Wink

I was shopping on a couple of the theater seating websites, and there's a huge variance on sating width. Unfortunately, it seems like the chairs with a little narrower seat pan and a little narrower arms are also higher-end, more expensive chairs. I'm not sure what's up with that, but I'll make it work even if I have to spend a little more money.

I can't wait to get started, but obviously I have to get a job before I start spending money. I'm hoping I can finalize the design and large details in January and February, get started on framing and electrical in March, and with any luck, maybe be watching movies by next Thanksgiving.

SC
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ecrabb
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TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
My only personal quibble is that given the effort that I put/will put into my room, I demand to sit dead center, and with 4 seats, you don't have that. For that reason only I'd do 3 seats wide, but then again, I live alone and don't entertain much, so if you have more than 4 guests over often, then do the 4 seat wide thing.


Ordinarily, I'd totall agree. The problem with two rows of three seats is that there is four of us. My wife and two kids. That means, somebody is always banished to the back row. That won't be as bad in the new room, but still... Usually, if it was a kids' movie we were watching together, we put the kids in the front row, and then my wife and I sat in back. If it was something I wanted to watch, then I got pole position, and there were squabbles over the two front row seats. A row of four puts us all in the front row.

Now, honestly, we probably only entertain half a dozen times a year, and probably a little less initially since we just relocated to a new state and know very few, but obviously we hope to change that.

Spanky Ham wrote:
Did you consider that his wife was tired of not getting the money shot (I mean seat)? Mr. Green Laughing Seriously, now she is only slightly off center like in Kal's old HT, whereas she used to be more off center.

I always took the center seat, but surprisingly she never minded that much sitting off-center. I'd offer when it was a move she cared about more than me, but she'd still let me sit in the center. I'll be only be off-center by half that much in the new seats. If I'm watching by myself, I can probably shove a couple seats over if they're not attached. I'll have to tape off a screen and set up a row of folding chairs in actual recliner butt locations and see how I feel about it.

All problems would be solved if I could just do a row of FIVE seats! Twisted Evil

Cheers,
SC


Last edited by ecrabb on Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Ecrabb's Theater v2 Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I don't want to get this off topic, but have you or anyone else put in a coffee bar with their brewery. I am seeing a huge increase in interest in high end and exotic coffee (or at least that is my perception).

I'm not even a big coffee drinker, but I could see getting a good espresso machine to put in the bar. I could see how that would be fun at parties and get-togethers. My wife didn't want one upstairs because she thinks it's too much work, but everybody I know that has one says they can make better coffee at home than they can buy anywhere - including Starbucks. So, might be a fun thing to try. Unlike brewing, it doesn't take much space, time, or effort either.

SC
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt some times dead center seat in a room is actually the worst for sound , that is bass below 90hz . There is usually dead spots there. One of the reasons I off set my seating. Using the Acoustic analyzing spread sheet with your room dimensions it will
closely determine where the peaks and nulls will be in your room for each seat.

I'll try to find it and post it here.


http://www.soundandvision.com/content/reader-david-henderson-provides-spreadsheet-calculate-room-acoustic-measurements

Athanasios

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Ecrabb's Theater v2 Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I don't want to get this off topic, but have you or anyone else put in a coffee bar with their brewery. I am seeing a huge increase in interest in high end and exotic coffee (or at least that is my perception).

Not myself, but a lot of the brewing guys I know are also big into coffee, and some of them roast and even sell their own beans. No coffee bars however...

Kal

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kicking around the overall basement interior wall construction. Building Science Corp and best practices still seems to be 1" or 2" XPS (like Owens Corning Foamular 150) against the foundation, and a 2x3 or 2x4 wall with unfaced fiberglass just inside the XPS.

If I use 1" XPS with an R5, plus a 2x4 wall with unfaced fiberglass batts with an R13, that's a total of R18 - about the same as a 2x6 wall. That's what I did in the old place and it seemed to work well, but I wanted to see if anybody had any different opinion.

Also, any opinions on RSIC clips and channel? It looks like you lose 1-5/8" of room space to the clips and channel, so more than 3" for two opposing walls. Add that to the 1" of XPS, 3-1/2" of framing, 1" of drywall on each opposing wall, and I'm down over 9 inches of room width compared with the bare foundation wall and existing framing! Compare that to XPS, framing, and double-drywall on one side and double-drywall on the other side, the total of which is more like 6 inches. Then there's $1000-plus the clips and channel will cost, plus the much more complex installation.

I'm thinking about chickening out again on this room and just doing double-drywall and Integrity Gasket on the walls, and channel and clips only on the ceiling. I was pretty happy with the level of isolation provided in my old room by double drywall, Green Glue, and Integrity Gasket. The only major shortcoming was really heavy LFE, plus footfalls on the hardwood floor above. Impact from hard objects like heels or kids toys transferred into the HT ceiling like the hardwood upstairs was glued right to the HT ceiling drywall.

On one hand, I feel like I'm going to spend so much money on this room and the rest of the basement, so what's another $1000? On the other hand, it's that "thousand here and thousand there" thing that really puts the budget over the top.

Any opinions on either?

SC
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greg_mitch



Joined: 03 May 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Steve - what are you using for your floor plan design software?

I haven't used sketchup in awhile (besides flying through architectural renderings) and wasn't sure if there was some easy software available with walls, furniture, doors, etc. already prepopulated.

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Spanky Ham



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2014 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this an empty unfinished basement?
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