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JVC X500R
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: JVC X500R Reply with quote


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After a lot of hours of hard work, I finally fitted my new X500R in place of my old (and beloved) Barco Ciné 7.
The hardest part was upgrading the cables, from component to HDMI; I now have an HDMI switch with a 10 m HDMI cable going to the projector; a 7.5 meter HDMI cable from my computer to the HDMI switch; and my BD player with a "normal length" cable hooked to the same switch. I also have a few "old" devices with component outputs, that pass through a Zektor HDS4.2 switch and exit to a component-to-HDMI converter. Everything is working fine, even though I had to splice one of the HDMI cables (I posted a how-to in the cable section, if interested); this alone is a great achievement Smile
The other difficulty I had was mounting the projector to the ceiling, exactly where the Barco was.
I'm projecting to a 4:3 motorised screen, whose base is 44,29" (2 m); the ceiling mount ended at 2.8 m, so after doing some calculations I decided that at that distance I could just cover the whole screen.
Boys, I was right! At the end, I'm in by 1 cm on each side.. Smile
I decided to re-use the original Barco mount; I just ordered the Techniq plate (http://www.ideal-av.co.uk/ItemPages/jvcceilingmount.htm) and modified it by attaching the "knob" of the Barco mount and by drilling a couple of holes for additional nut and bolts; I only sprayed white the center plate. The Techniq plate/Barco mount combo is simply perfect; I could adjust in seconds the pitch, yaw and roll and the quick release hold system is really convenient. I forgot to calculate if I could "move down" the image enough, keeping the mount at its original height (with the original rods); luckily, the JVC is very versatile and the projection height is exactly where I wanted. Below you can see a couple of pictures of the projector in place; I had a metal cover around the old mount, I kept it as it is; the appearance is not too bad, I think that I will keep it that way.
I have not spent much time calibrating the projector, but I would like to share my impressions.
4K e-shift is fantastic: perfectly solid image, just like my old CRT. The BIG difference is definition (way above the Barco), and ease of installation; without even reading the manual, I configured the geometry and set up the PJ in about 10 minutes. Of course, I'm sure it will take A LOT more time tweaking it to perfection.
Blacks are very good; not exactly on par with the Ciné 7 (IMHO), but probably because the projector is too near and the screen has a gain between 1.2 and 1.5 (I'm not sure: I bought it 10 years ago, and I could not find anywhere this information). Maybe blacks would benefit from a 0.8 grey screen, but I'm not willing to shell out more money for a marginal increase in black depth.
Colors seem very natural; these are the main settings I'm using:

Input level: Enhanced (very important!)

Color profile: Cinema
Color temp.: 6500K
Gamma: Normal
Clear Motion Drive: Off
Clear Black: Low
Lamp Power: Low
Lens Aperture: -6

MPC
4K e-shift ON
Enhance 0
Dynamic contrast 34
Smoothing 50
NR 5

Contrast: 0
Brightness: 0
Color: -9

I had to decrease colour, because at 0 the image was a little too saturated for my tastes.
I also touched up a little the red, decreasing its gain, because for me it was too bright.
Of course, I will have to calibrate the PJ properly when I find the time, but for now the result is very satisfactory.
One thing I noticed, though, is that input level MUST be set to "enhanced"; on "normal", image is very dark and you need to pump up brightness otherwise dark details will be completely crushed. I also set the HDMI output of my computer to full RGB.
To avoid artifacts, I set "Enhance" to zero; I spotted a little colour banding in very dark scenes from computer videos of low quality; by decreasing the "smoothing" and "NR" values the effect disappears.
I would be glad to hear opinions from other people having the X500; which settings are you using?

Simone



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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice! By the way, how do you like the Lynnfield 500Ls? I have the 400L set and they are awesome (or they WERE until the crossover failed in both of them, killing the tweeters.)

Looking good all around! Very Happy

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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I LOVE my Lynnfield 500; I'm also using two Lynnfield 300 as the center speaker, go figure Smile
They are driven by an Audio Analogue Cinecittà (65 Kg of horsepower), plus I have a Velodyne SPL 1000 sub; everything is enclosed in a custom made anti-resonant cabinet; a NIGHTMARE for cabling, but sweet when you are done tweaking and finally can sit down enjoying a good movie. The 500s are excellent for pure music, they just need power to shine!

Jeremy112 wrote:
Very nice! By the way, how do you like the Lynnfield 500Ls? I have the 400L set and they are awesome (or they WERE until the crossover failed in both of them, killing the tweeters.)

Looking good all around! Very Happy
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15854
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 1:21 am    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

Thanks for posting!

szp72 wrote:
Blacks are very good; not exactly on par with the Ciné 7 (IMHO), but probably because the projector is too near and the screen has a gain between 1.2 and 1.5 (I'm not sure: I bought it 10 years ago, and I could not find anywhere this information).

To get the best contrast ratio you want to install as far back as possible and close the iris as much as posible (while getting an adequate amount of light output).

Quote:
Maybe blacks would benefit from a 0.8 grey screen...

I don't think so - it'll only make blacks blacker at the expense of light output so you have to open the iris more which "undoes" the benefits of the lower gain screen.

Only real way is to go up a model in projector.

Quote:
One thing I noticed, though, is that input level MUST be set to "enhanced"; on "normal", image is very dark and you need to pump up brightness otherwise dark details will be completely crushed.

It doesn't have to - it only needs to match what your source is doing. If you set both source and projector the same way there's no difference between enhanced and normal. Otherwise you'll completely lose details like you saw.

Kal

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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

kal wrote:

To get the best contrast ratio you want to install as far back as possible and close the iris as much as posible (while getting an adequate amount of light output).


You're completely right, but I did not want to demolish and re-build my living room Smile
Moreover the ceiling mount goes straight through the ceiling and is locked to two steel bars under the roof (the old Barco was a lot heavier than the JVC, but I like to stay on the safe side); it would have been nearly impossible to move them.

Quote:
Maybe blacks would benefit from a 0.8 grey screen...

kal wrote:

I don't think so - it'll only make blacks blacker at the expense of light output so you have to open the iris more which "undoes" the benefits of the lower gain screen.


Good to know! Even though I was not considering the option of changing my screen at the moment, I might in the future, just to have the screen "properly" terminated on top with black border with any picture format.

Something like this:
http://www.adeoscreen.it/default.php?t=site&pgid=480
(two synchronized rollers, one for projection and another for black masking)

Quote:
One thing I noticed, though, is that input level MUST be set to "enhanced"; on "normal", image is very dark and you need to pump up brightness otherwise dark details will be completely crushed.

kal wrote:

It doesn't have to - it only needs to match what your source is doing. If you set both source and projector the same way there's no difference between enhanced and normal. Otherwise you'll completely lose details like you saw.


This setting is not available in every source; for example, my component dtv/sat box has no option for it.
I could be wrong, but before setting my PC to full RGB I still had to put the PJ in "enhanced" mode to avoid crushing details in dark images. But on the PC there are a dozillion of options, starting with nVidia settings, ffdshow settings, Zoom Player settings and so on, thus it's hard to tell if there's something else I missed in the chain Smile
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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15854
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:46 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:
This setting is not available in every source; for example, my component dtv/sat box has no option for it.

True - so you'd have to set the display to match then. Good point.

Quote:
I could be wrong, but before setting my PC to full RGB I still had to put the PJ in "enhanced" mode to avoid crushing details in dark images. But on the PC there are a dozillion of options, starting with nVidia settings, ffdshow settings, Zoom Player settings and so on, thus it's hard to tell if there's something else I missed in the chain Smile

You really shouldn't "have to" use enhanced if the whole display chain can be set up the same way. It's just a way of telling the system what point along the 0-255 scale is black (0 or 16) and what is white (235 or 255). Even though I know it shouldn't matter, when I first set up my RS56 I did a bunch of back and forth testing too setting up my projector and PS3 one way and then the other, and playing test patterns with bars on the 0-20 and 230-255 range to see if any more (or less) detail was coming out and I couldn't tell the difference which is what I should have seen. I ended up leaving it at "normal" (16-235).

Congrats on the X500 (RS49). It's a great bang for the buck projector that lots of people have been very happy with (including ex-CRT'ers).

Kal

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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

kal wrote:

You really shouldn't "have to" use enhanced if the whole display chain can be set up the same way. It's just a way of telling the system what point along the 0-255 scale is black (0 or 16) and what is white (235 or 255). Even though I know it shouldn't matter, when I first set up my RS56 I did a bunch of back and forth testing too setting up my projector and PS3 one way and then the other, and playing test patterns with bars on the 0-20 and 230-255 range to see if any more (or less) detail was coming out and I couldn't tell the difference. I ended up leaving it at "normal" (16-235).


You're probably right; given that 16-235 is the broadcast standard, 0-255 is probably "remapped" to 16-235 internally. It's just a matter of how you prefer to configure your chain.

kal wrote:

Congrats on the X500 (RS49). It's a great bang for the buck projector that lots of people have been very happy with (including ex-CRT'ers).


Thanks! I was really afraid that I would miss my old Barco, but with such an image quality I can recommend it to any CRT owner.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:
kal wrote:

Congrats on the X500 (RS49). It's a great bang for the buck projector that lots of people have been very happy with (including ex-CRT'ers).


Thanks! I was really afraid that I would miss my old Barco, but with such an image quality I can recommend it to any CRT owner.


I had exactly the same reaction when I sold my G70 and went to an RS45. Loved it.

The only major thing I missed was the near-perfect blacks on the CRT. That was always fun. Unfortunately, the CRT also came with major downsides for me, not the least of which was a huge, noise projector on the ceiling that imposed very much on the room visually, but even worse completely destroyed the noise floor in the room. I spent all that money on speakers, amps, and room treatments to have a really nice sounding room, then had to listen to what sounded like a rack of blade servers.

The only other minor thing I missed with the smooth, pixel-free image on the CRT. Of course, I was trading a significant amount of sharpness and detail to get it, but I did like the silky-smooth image of CRT. I really should have had a nine-inch machine... I think if you want to stick with CRT and get all the advantages of CRT, then a nine-inch machine is much preferable over an 8-inch machine.

I sold my house, theater, and projector, but my next machine will be a JVC with eShift - probably a 49/4910/X500. eShift fixes the second of my two biggest concerns. Then, when I go with a slightly larger, slightly lower-gain screen, plus the better native contrast and a little light dynamic iris applied, and I think it'll probably make the black issue mostly moot, too.

Congrats on the new setup. I'm sure it was a very nice upgrade in a multi-use living space.

Cheers,
SC
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:

I had exactly the same reaction when I sold my G70 and went to an RS45. Loved it.

The only major thing I missed was the near-perfect blacks on the CRT. That was always fun. Unfortunately, the CRT also came with major downsides for me, not the least of which was a huge, noise projector on the ceiling that imposed very much on the room visually, but even worse completely destroyed the noise floor in the room. I spent all that money on speakers, amps, and room treatments to have a really nice sounding room, then had to listen to what sounded like a rack of blade servers.


I agree with every single word Very Happy
The one thing that I will surely NOT miss will be that huge spaceship right over my head (and my CRT was small, compared to 8 or 9-inchers!). The noise was not so loud for me, but in "low power" mode the X500 is way below that level, plus it's smaller and easier on the eye.
I'm also getting used to its black level; I must say that, even though I have yet to do a proper, full calibration, the little tweaking I have done so far is taking me there. Maybe it's not exactly the same black depth, but the overall balance between what you take and what you give is absolutely positive, and by a fair amount.

ecrabb wrote:

The only other minor thing I missed with the smooth, pixel-free image on the CRT. Of course, I was trading a significant amount of sharpness and detail to get it, but I did like the silky-smooth image of CRT. I really should have had a nine-inch machine... I think if you want to stick with CRT and get all the advantages of CRT, then a nine-inch machine is much preferable over an 8-inch machine.


e-shift on the X500 gives you a perfectly smooth, solid image. No pixels whatsoever, even if you stick your nose to the screen. I NEVER considered a digital before exactly because I was allergic to pixelation.
I found out my screen is in alkorfix white (with dark back); 1.2 gain, 150° view angle. Probably it would be preferable a reference white with 1.0 gain or less, since the throw is really minimum (2.8 m). I'm considering an upgrade, maybe next year. For now, I'm done with changes and willing to enjoy this "little" beast!

Ciao!
[/i]
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jbmeyer13



Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1131



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:27 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
szp72 wrote:
kal wrote:

Congrats on the X500 (RS49). It's a great bang for the buck projector that lots of people have been very happy with (including ex-CRT'ers).


Thanks! I was really afraid that I would miss my old Barco, but with such an image quality I can recommend it to any CRT owner.


I had exactly the same reaction when I sold my G70 and went to an RS45. Loved it.

The only major thing I missed was the near-perfect blacks on the CRT. That was always fun. Unfortunately, the CRT also came with major downsides for me, not the least of which was a huge, noise projector on the ceiling that imposed very much on the room visually, but even worse completely destroyed the noise floor in the room. I spent all that money on speakers, amps, and room treatments to have a really nice sounding room, then had to listen to what sounded like a rack of blade servers.

The only other minor thing I missed with the smooth, pixel-free image on the CRT. Of course, I was trading a significant amount of sharpness and detail to get it, but I did like the silky-smooth image of CRT. I really should have had a nine-inch machine... I think if you want to stick with CRT and get all the advantages of CRT, then a nine-inch machine is much preferable over an 8-inch machine.

I sold my house, theater, and projector, but my next machine will be a JVC with eShift - probably a 49/4910/X500. eShift fixes the second of my two biggest concerns. Then, when I go with a slightly larger, slightly lower-gain screen, plus the better native contrast and a little light dynamic iris applied, and I think it'll probably make the black issue mostly moot, too.

Congrats on the new setup. I'm sure it was a very nice upgrade in a multi-use living space.

Cheers,
SC


C'mon Steve, a modded 9500LC would be dirt cheap and then you'll see what you've been missing Cool

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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

szp72 wrote:
e-shift on the X500 gives you a perfectly smooth, solid image. No pixels whatsoever, even if you stick your nose to the screen. I NEVER considered a digital before exactly because I was allergic to pixelation.
I found out my screen is in alkorfix white (with dark back); 1.2 gain, 150° view angle. Probably it would be preferable a reference white with 1.0 gain or less, since the throw is really minimum (2.8 m). I'm considering an upgrade, maybe next year. For now, I'm done with changes and willing to enjoy this "little" beast!


Totally agree on eShift and lack of pixels. Definitely very CRT-like., and definitely worth a little loss of sharpness to get that nice, solid image. It wasn't usually noticeable on normal program material on my RS45, but occasionally in fine details like stars, or white-on-black titles or end credits, if I looked closely, I'd see aliasing. It was mostly because of my large angle of view - I sat only about 10 feet (3m) from my 8-foot (2.5m) wide screen. If I sat a little further back, a non-eShift machine would be fine to be honest.

I think you're right that the 1.0 gain screen would be a little better in the blacks department. I ran my RS45 with the aperture completely closed for a long time on my 1.3 gain 96x54 laminate screen, and black level just kept getting better as the lamp aged. By the time I was at 900 hours or so, I'd had to open the aperture up about half-way to get the brightness back.

But, yes - once I'd set it up and calibrated it, I rarely ever did anything but turn it on and off.

Cheers,
SC
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:


C'mon Steve, a modded 9500LC would be dirt cheap and then you'll see what you've been missing Cool


Well, I can't speak for him, but if you asked me if I would consider fitting such a monster in my living room..
Would I get a better picture? Probably yes! Would it be a better overall solution? Surely not!

Peace!

P.S. I spot very high WAF around here... Laughing
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:24 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
C'mon Steve, a modded 9500LC would be dirt cheap and then you'll see what you've been missing Cool

I know you're just pimping me, but been there, done that. Not going back. I'll always love the look of CRT, and I still wish I could have gotten ahold of a G90 or 909 before I left CRT. I respect everybody that's sticking with it, pushing the envelope, stacking, blending, modding, etc., but CRT just isn't inline with my priorities anymore.

In my next room, there will be no equipment in the room, so I want it quiet enough that I don't want to even be able to tell whether a projector is on or off. I want to walk in the room and have the noise floor so damn low that it's assaulting to the senses. I want an AT scope screen. I want as little equipment visible as possible so there's a minimal impact on the room visually. Basically, I just want a super-sweet room to watch movies and listen to music, where the equipment is all essentially hidden and takes a back seat to the room, design, picture, and sound. The equipment should only add to the experience - not take away from it.

That's my personal feeling on the subject, anyway. Your mileage may vary. Wink

But, yeah - anybody still using CRT should definitely be using at least an 8-inch EM/LC, but preferably a 9-inch version of the same, or they're definitely missing out.

Cheers,
SC
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: JVC X500R Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:

Totally agree on eShift and lack of pixels. Definitely very CRT-like., and definitely worth a little loss of sharpness to get that nice, solid image. It wasn't usually noticeable on normal program material on my RS45, but occasionally in fine details like stars, or white-on-black titles or end credits, if I looked closely, I'd see aliasing. It was mostly because of my large angle of view - I sat only about 10 feet (3m) from my 8-foot (2.5m) wide screen. If I sat a little further back, a non-eShift machine would be fine to be honest.


Wow, 2.5 m wide screen from just 3m? You really like getting into the picture!
Talking of blacks, time to revamp Star Wars and Alien franchises to see how they behave.. Very Happy

ecrabb wrote:

I think you're right that the 1.0 gain screen would be a little better in the blacks department. I ran my RS45 with the aperture completely closed for a long time on my 1.3 gain 96x54 laminate screen, and black level just kept getting better as the lamp aged. By the time I was at 900 hours or so, I'd had to open the aperture up about half-way to get the brightness back.

But, yes - once I'd set it up and calibrated it, I rarely ever did anything but turn it on and off.


That's another point for digital. And no waiting: my old Barco needed 20 mins to "stretch up" a little and stop drifting.
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Congrats on the JVC. I check JVC's ebay site every week to see if they have any good deals. If a 4910 comes along in the low $2ks, then I am in.

I must admit after listening to the latest HTgeeks podcast that I am eagerly awaiting laser/led. In three years, pjs could be hitting 1500 calibrated lumens with 20k hour life span with even better performance.
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2014 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
Congrats on the JVC. I check JVC's ebay site every week to see if they have any good deals. If a 4910 comes along in the low $2ks, then I am in.

I must admit after listening to the latest HTgeeks podcast that I am eagerly awaiting laser/led. In three years, pjs could be hitting 1500 calibrated lumens with 20k hour life span with even better performance.


I recently installed a laser Panasonic PJ for a customer. Nothing I would even consider for serious home theater.
Actually I believe that their target is businesses that need the pj on 24h a day.
When they talk about 10K or 20K hour life span I always scratch my head; everything built today is programmed to fail, and not in 10 or 20 years, but a little after warranty expires; UNLESS they have other means to make you pay again and again after you have initially bought your device. UHP lamps are one of these means, IMHO. Their price is kept artificially high, just like printer cartridges. They started with generic light bulbs many many years ago; the principle is that nothing should last too long, or the market falls.
Laser light sources surely have higher life span, but at least for a few years you will pay R&D and, after that, the patent (if the maker has not invented his own method of converting the concentrated laser ray into a uniform diffused light). Then you must be lucky enough that they last so long, because they are not intended for replacement, so if they fail you will have to pay good money to have them fixed (obviously after warranty expires).
By that time, I will probably have changed a couple of lamps and enjoyed a few thousand movies, so I will consider my pj "repaid" and I will happily switch to what JVC will be making then.. Very Happy
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am shocked that Crabb hasn't replied yet. Shocked

You can't compare a business projector to a home theater projector. They are designed for two different purposes. I am not surprised that you didn't like the Panny.

I did see the Epson HT laser/led at Cedia. While I wasn't overwhelmed, I could definitely see the potential. I know JVC already has laser/led pjs for the business market. They strongly hinted that there will be one next year, whether that is CES or Cedia is anyone's guess. I think Sony is in the same ballpark.

I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but you are missing an important factor. That is flat panels. With the decrease in price of large flat panels, it is easier for a lot of businesses to go that route than mess around with a pj. As prices continue to drop, it gets harder to justify the initial purchase price and ongoing maintenance of a projector. Laser/leds can help keep some of those businesses from defecting, at least in the short term. Long term, I would say anything under one hundred inches will be the domain of flat panels.
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szp72



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 25



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
I am shocked that Crabb hasn't replied yet. Shocked

You can't compare a business projector to a home theater projector. They are designed for two different purposes. I am not surprised that you didn't like the Panny.


I know that, I sold it to my customer for a very different reason. I was only saying that the only laser PJ I have seen until now is a business PJ not suitable for HT.

I believe you got me wrong (and maybe I got you wrong).

I read your statement as something in the line of "ok, but let's wait for laser PJs because we need the 10K hour lifespan".
I could be wrong, of course. I was only objecting to this line of thought. I believe that if you want (or need) to switch to digital right now, and are coming from a CRT like me (thus expecting solid images and good blacks), you can buy a JVC of this class with confidence.

Actually, the reasons why I started this thread were:
1) getting hints from other owners; this is a great community, that include highly skilled (and very nice) people from whom I have only to learn;
2) share my experience, so that everybody that finds himself in a similar situation (CRT dying out, changing home, etc.) can read and decide if this is a good solution for him.

I don't know if laser is the future. Maybe it will, maybe it won't. Maybe it will be limited to business projectors, because image quality resulting from these light sources will not be on par with what you get from UHP lamps. Or PJ makers will not consider it a "consumer" technology. Or it will cost too much to justify its production (see plasma/lcd). Or they will find that the duration is not exactly the one they expected/predicted, or there are other side effects such as color drifting.
Anyway, I think that it's likely they will make you pay good money for the laser source, because they won't get any more money from you for a long time, while with previous technology they could harvest some bucks here and there from selling you the lamps. I will be very happy if laser light sources will be adopted in the future, if they prove to be stable and let you achieve HT-grade image quality. I surely won't be an early adopter; I think I will enjoy my PJ in the meantime and let the technology grow up.

I sold a laser PJ to my customer for a very good reason: peace of mind. A dead lamp in your sitting room while you and your family are watching your favorite show is not a big issue (apart from kids getting mad Laughing ).
A dead lamp in the middle of a business presentation, with maybe 100 people before you, is a totally different situation. Even if you have the spare lamp, because you can be sure that the only one who is able to replace it will be on holiday/sick/1000 miles away for whatever reason Very Happy . This is the real advantage I see with laser PJs at the moment.
You talk about flat panels. The same customer has other halls; I sold him 7 large lcd screens. But for the main theater, a video wall the same size would cost him at least 6 times what he spent for the projector + screen. Enough said Smile
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
Posts: 2383


TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laser has always been "right around the corner" for 4 or 5 years now, yet the most we have for HT are a couple $20K+ DLP units that were released just this year. I'm 100% for a long-lasting, stable, scalable light source for digital PJs, but I wouldn't hold my breath for mid-level ($2K-$10K) laser-based units any time in the next 5 years. I think I express that sentiment about once a year here when the subject comes up. I'd love to be wrong on this particular subject, but I just don't see some of laser's major problems being economically solved for use in mid-level HT projectors any time soon.

I also think manufacturers are focusing more of their limited PJ R&D budgets on bringing UHD/4K to market as opposed to laser. No, the two aren't mutually exclusive, but given how small the world-wide HT PJ market is, few companies devote more than a small portion of their resources towards developing new tech for it, and I guarantee they're all prioritizing UHD over laser.

The good news is that, unless you use your projector as your main display and you watch a LOT of TV and movies, the current offering of lamp-based projectors is more than capable of throwing a spectacular image with a relatively low annual cost of operation.

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15854
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say I've been extremely pleased with the stability and lifespan I can get out of my current JVC RS56 projector with the new DC bulbs. This unit's one model behind the current line of JVC DILA models.

I've been using it for almost 2 years now and am at ~1800 or so hours on the first bulb and I've only changed the iris once from -6 to -5 to account for the dimming bulb. In other words, it's barely changed. Very stable.

At 2900 hours the projector will issue a warning to change the bulb (which you can choose to override if you like) but I'll be changing it. That gets me about 3-3.5 years on a $400 bulb assuming an average of 2.7 hrs of watching *every single day* which many will find high. We do use ours a lot. If you're an occasional or only weekend user, you could get many more years out of the bulb. For example, if you watch a 2-hour movie every Friday and Saturday night it'll take almost 14 years to get to 2900 hours. There's no warmup required other than the initial 60 seconds or so which is built into the projector so the image is stable as soon as it kicks in, so a 2 hour movie is truly 2 hours of use. I'm going with the assumption that the bulb is usable until 2900 hours. Given how little it's dimmed in the last 1000 hours for me I don't see this being a problem but you really don't know. It might suddenly drop off.

So the bulb lifespan benefit of laser is not something I get for average or even moderately heavy home use. I see it as a benefit for bars/restaurants or other places where the projector's on 24/7.

Of course, laser should (or will) have other benefits like extreme contrast ratios, low blacks, etc.

My 2 cents.

Kal

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Last edited by kal on Sat Mar 07, 2015 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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