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Can moome make a HDMI card for a digital projector?

 
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Can moome make a HDMI card for a digital projector? Reply with quote


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I'm a bit curious if Moome can make a custom HDMI input card for a digital projector? I haven't seen any threads asking something similar, so I thought I would. The projector is a Panasonic PT-DW7000U 3-chip DLP. It has a option card slot for expansion cards such as LAN, HD-SDI, and DVI-D with LAN.

I'd love to have a modern HDMI input card with the Ethernet option on it, as it would really open up some options for this machine. I know I could buy an external device to do this using an RGBHV cable, but I'd like to make it a clean setup if possible.

Jeremy

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about a DVI-D input card with LAN + a $10 DVI-HDMI converter? Producing nice cards in low quantity isn't a cost effective solution, unless it's DIY.
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjaky wrote:
What about a DVI-D input card with LAN + a $10 DVI-HDMI converter? Producing nice cards in low quantity isn't a cost effective solution, unless it's DIY.


Well this projector is going to be my main projector. Overall, aside from the resolution, it has a lot going for it, and as a result I have no problem doing a custom card for the cost. I know one card isn't cheap to make since its not in a batch (though I do think if moome made a batch they would sell like hot cakes on ebay).

I'm also looking to get HDMI 1.4 for a digital input, which the DVI-D card obviously doesn't have Wink

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the construction of the machine it is not sure what does the DVI input board actually does: whether the board is converting the signal to analog, and the projector is converting it back to digital, or passing the digital signal right away. Either way it's not very promising...
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Tom.W




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 6637



PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a DVI input card for the projector ? Its possible you could use a DVI-D to HDMI adapter cable along with one of these...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34454&highlight=stripper
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom.W wrote:
Do you have a DVI input card for the projector ? Its possible you could use a DVI-D to HDMI adapter cable along with one of these...

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34454&highlight=stripper


There is a DVI-D/LAN card for the projector, I don't have it as it didn't come with my projector, but I can get it. It does have HDCP, but as I've already said, it would be nice to make it a bit cleaner of an install than doing DVI to HDMI.

Also I'm not 100% sure on this, but aren't there differences between HDMI 1.4 and DVI-D regarding quality and capabilities? Would the DVI-D card limit the HDMI that is being adapted? I would think so, but I'm not an expert on that area.

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy112 wrote:
Also I'm not 100% sure on this, but aren't there differences between HDMI 1.4 and DVI-D regarding quality and capabilities? Would the DVI-D card limit the HDMI that is being adapted? I would think so, but I'm not an expert on that area.


So let's look in this, there are two possibilities:
-The projector handles natively analog signals, even at output of the option card. All digital signals converted to analog on the input card. The projector resamples the analog signals to digital. In this case you probably loose all the benefits of HDMI 1.4 since we know nothing about the signalpath of the projector, but pretty sure the ADC isn't that good as HDMI 1.4 specifies its maximum signal quality.
-The projector handles the digital signals natively. In this case you simply can't do anything. The pixel clock limitation lies in the construction of the machine along with the lower bit depth. The projector's EDID will simply tell that it couldn't do such things what's in HDMI 1.4 so it will fall back to legacy HDMI mode (DVI-D). Think of it as an old LCD monitor which have a DVI-D input but you want HDMI 1.4, you really can't do much for it except for the cheap HDMI-DVI-D converter.

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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gjaky wrote:
Jeremy112 wrote:
Also I'm not 100% sure on this, but aren't there differences between HDMI 1.4 and DVI-D regarding quality and capabilities? Would the DVI-D card limit the HDMI that is being adapted? I would think so, but I'm not an expert on that area.


So let's look in this, there are two possibilities:
-The projector handles natively analog signals, even at output of the option card. All digital signals converted to analog on the input card. The projector resamples the analog signals to digital. In this case you probably loose all the benefits of HDMI 1.4 since we know nothing about the signalpath of the projector, but pretty sure the ADC isn't that good as HDMI 1.4 specifies its maximum signal quality.
-The projector handles the digital signals natively. In this case you simply can't do anything. The pixel clock limitation lies in the construction of the machine along with the lower bit depth. The projector's EDID will simply tell that it couldn't do such things what's in HDMI 1.4 so it will fall back to legacy HDMI mode (DVI-D). Think of it as an old LCD monitor which have a DVI-D input but you want HDMI 1.4, you really can't do much for it except for the cheap HDMI-DVI-D converter.


So basically I would be better off using the RGBHV BNC and a HDMI 1.4 box then probably? I just don't believe that a HDCP DVI-D card from 2008+ would be worth using over a HDMI to RGBHV conversion (much like we do on CRT). Then again, as you've pointed out, we really don't know anything about the signal path of the projector.

If I could get a service manual would that help? Razz

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i get the specs right, its a 768P projector, so no matter what, you need high quality scaling to match the resolution to those panels, so why not just go with a scaler like the DVDO VP50 or Lumagen HDQ and run RGBHV out, and feed it HDMI via one of those 25$ HDCP strippers.

No matter what you do it will never be a high quality HD image when you cant make a 1:1 pixel mapping.

You might get lucky to make Moome build a card for you, but you still wont get 1:1 pixel mapping, and ill guess a prototype card like that must cost around 3-5000$

Wonder if its not cheaper and better to find a old 1080P 3 chip DLP.
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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy112 wrote:
If I could get a service manual would that help? Razz


Actually I found the SM for PT-D7500/7600 which is compatible with the same option boards, but honestly that SM is a mess I couldn't make out anything about the signal path...

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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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