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CRT Verses Modern Projector

 
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alank




Joined: 25 Nov 2012
Posts: 16
Location: South Africa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:35 pm    Post subject: CRT Verses Modern Projector Reply with quote


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I have a Sony D50 protector that needs a lot of work to get everything back into alignment and then calibration. Just the thought of it has prevented me from doing it for the last 2 years. Add to that, that I know very little about the D50 and the thought of getting a serious shock while fiddling worries me. I'm wondering if I should rather just get a modern projector and be done with it.

So is it worth going through the process even if it takes me a month or 2 or should I just move on.

To add to this whichever route I take I would like to have the 3D facility which if need be I will purchase for the D50
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm willing to bet a digital projector would be more up your alley. Plug it in, turn it on, focus & zoom it to what you need, and select your input source. That's about all there is to a digital.

CRT isn't that bad either really. As long as you don't go groping wires and parts while the machine is running, you're generally pretty safe Smile . I've never seen a D50 running in person, but at this stage of the game, I firmly believe that a good digital will blow away an ES machine, any of them, and if I remember correctly, the D50 is Electrostatic focusing and not electromagnetic (so the tubes will get fuzzier over time with use)

3D would be pretty dim and probably unwatchable on the D50, there isn't enough light output to give you the wow you expect from 3D. I've seen people on here do 3D on the 9" CRT machines, , I don't think anyone has tried it on a 7" set yet.

So to answer your main question, a digital projector will probably be the best overall option if you are looking for ease of use, relatively good image quality right from the start (no convergence or geometry to have to deal with) CRT machine, and especially if you want to do 3D.

On a good note, your D50 is probably of the newest ElectroStatic sets ever made for CRT. I don't think there were any newer than the D50. If you are willing to put the time and patience into setting your D50 up then you might find it worthwhile. If you just want a image thrown up onto a wall... then yeah a CRT machine probably isn't what you want Wink

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alank




Joined: 25 Nov 2012
Posts: 16
Location: South Africa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why I haven't sold the D50 is because I've heard that no modern projector can give the color that a CRT can once set up correctly. Is this true
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See the comments at the bottom of this thread:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36550&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=100

They're very valid. Also, a digital typically will last 4-6 years as compared to a CRT that will last 20+.

I agree, the D50 will not do 3D well, if at all. you need a digital for that, but for an overall natural looking image, it's still CRT for most of us here.
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jeffslife




Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4181
Location: ohio usa


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CRT has a lot of advantages but from what I have seen it isn't in the color as much as it is in the ability to produce blacks and have so much better shadow detail.(if calibrated properly) If I wouldn't have Craig Rounds calibrating mine I probably would have just went digital. I wish I was a more technical person like most of the guys here but I am not, when my G90 gives up the ghost I will probably go to a digital PJ assuming something decent comes down to a price I can afford by then. That being said, I haven't seen anything that looks as good as a properly calibrated 9 inch CRT. Not yet.
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
See the comments at the bottom of this thread:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=36550&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=100

They're very valid. Also, a digital typically will last 4-6 years as compared to a CRT that will last 20+.

I agree, the D50 will not do 3D well, if at all. you need a digital for that, but for an overall natural looking image, it's still CRT for most of us here.


Curt, I have to ask, after seeing you mention this a few times, what digital sets are you referring to lasting only 4-6 years? I'll agree with you on the cheaper brands such as Epson or Optoma, I have a 6000 hour exact optoma here that the plastic has literally been cooked to being brittle and busted from heat, and the Epson machines I've seen have had pretty much any problem you can throw at a projector, but other than those specific scenarios, and a few bad DLP chip runs from texas instruments, I have had hundreds of digitals that are 8-12 years old and still kicking strong.

I know there are a few other exceptions to that, but overall I have found most digital PJs to be highly reliable as long as they are properly maintained. In fact, I would almost say more reliable than CRT projectors. I've had to swap very few parts between digitals to get them diagnosed/running.

Honestly, out of the last 200 or so digitals I've been through, I've had less than 30 that had some sort of serious or un-repairable issue, and given the hour count on some of these, combined with the complete lack of maintenance that companies/schools do to them, I would call that impressive. Most of these are so packed full of dust balls and lint they weren't even cooling at all, and they still work fine. They were replaced mainly for upgrade reasons.

So I'm just curious as to what machines you are referring to? Razz

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redfox001




Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My HD350 had the mirrors shifting giving magenta sides and I have seen that on many digital either magenta or yellow depending on which mirror shifted. Also my green panel died (light sparks in the panel happens a lot). Ok I might have been unlucky but I tried to repair and look for parts and they are very hard to get. A second broken one for parts is an idea but they are build in a way that it is very difficult to repair or find the problem without damaging the coatings or the mirrors. I would like a digital that makes you chose the type of lamp. But that is not possible because all the filters are exactly for one lamp type. By the way a little smook in your mirror system and the colours are never the same anymore. Basically the digitals are made to be thrown away when broken. No fun al all Very Happy
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redfox001 wrote:
My HD350 had the mirrors shifting giving magenta sides and I have seen that on many digital either magenta or yellow depending on which mirror shifted. Also my green panel died (light sparks in the panel happens a lot). Ok I might have been unlucky but I tried to repair and look for parts and they are very hard to get. A second broken one for parts is an idea but they are build in a way that it is very difficult to repair or find the problem without damaging the coatings or the mirrors. I would like a digital that makes you chose the type of lamp. But that is not possible because all the filters are exactly for one lamp type. By the way a little smook in your mirror system and the colours are never the same anymore. Basically the digitals are made to be thrown away when broken. No fun al all Very Happy


Wrong, aside from having a hard time finding the exact LCoS panel, mirrors and filters can be replaced and are generally interchangeable between projectors. I repair them for a living as well as clean them out (they need that more than repair, that's generally true!)

The mirrors, dichroic filters, etc... can be cleaned. You can NOT use abrasives, and only certain types of cloth are ideal to clean the insides. It can be done, and I've had spectacular results cleaning out almost every projector I've worked on.

I've not come across a bad JVC yet. And the only bad Sony I came across is now sitting in a box in my basement waiting for use. It had a bad board that I had to replace, but other than my specific one, I have never seen the same model have any issue at all.

Odds are yours is a rare case, or a design fault, much like many Epson LCD projectors; the glue comes loose on the back side of the mirrors, which they then come loose, and do the same as you've seen, where yellow/purple color is visible.

Some quick re-gluing (with glue that handles heat) fixes that. Generally those issues aren't complicated. And even LCD projectors with bad LCD panels I've been able to successfully replace. Aligning them can be a pain in the ass, but that's what the jig I've started working on is for Wink

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redfox001




Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I see I needed you than. But the light path is somewhat a touchy part for dust, alignment and other dirt.

I searched on ebay for new panels and that was not cheap by the way. Other points of concern are I think the switching power supply caps and the lamp load caps. They do fail after some time but I trust JVC can deliver spare boards. My JVC lived three years. But do they get to 10 years in general? Servicing here was an expensive thing. Sending to JVC etc. Not something an amateur like me can do with some board swap.

Anyway what I have read is that the JVC light path is very good protected against dust by the way. Better than some Epsons.

Further I have no knowledge on this. I saw a few projectors with similar issues.

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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy, all of them! Sony is all about board sales, no one actually repairs boards, and the price of Sony boards for example are insanely expensive. Most sets I've seen through here are writeoffs, and my guess is that they are on their second or third bulb. With regular use, 4-6 years would be about right.
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UncleWill




Joined: 11 Dec 2012
Posts: 413
Location: WashDC area, ViennaVA


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you already have a machine, you should try it out. Maybe just use it for giggles. They're really not that hard to setup. Just takes a little brainpower and attention span.
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veelangs




Joined: 22 Oct 2014
Posts: 59
Location: Chicago


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Dwin TV3 since new and I haven't had an issue with it other than replacing the bulb once

It has roughly 10k hours on the unit now and it still looks as good as the first day I was awed by it

my biggest concern is always when it goes because dwin doesn't exist anymore. I have a spare TV3 and that all important circular dvi cable for precisely that day :/

but so far it's been fantastic and 99% of the reason why I want a CRT projo in my new space
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Jeremy112




Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2645
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Jeremy, all of them! Sony is all about board sales, no one actually repairs boards, and the price of Sony boards for example are insanely expensive. Most sets I've seen through here are writeoffs, and my guess is that they are on their second or third bulb. With regular use, 4-6 years would be about right.


You're right that Sony only sells boards, and doesn't repair them, and yeah the prices for those boards are ridiculous. So I'll agree there. But I still can't fully agree that all digital projectors are 4-6 year clunkers. I would agree the consumer ones seem to be more down that road, but the commercial and professional projectors seem to hold up a lot longer.

After all, weren't CRT projectors once professional-ultra expensive sets such as a high end 3 chip DLP machine? It would be foolish to expect a $5000 consumer digital to last as long as a former $23,000 professional CRT projector. Two totally different beasts. No one should expect a consumer machine to outlive a CRT projector, since CRT machines were originally not intended for home theaters to begin with. Nowadays there are companies producing projectors specifically for the home theater market; aka the consumer market, or the disposable market.

If consumer projectors were made to the same level of quality as professional/commercial units, I'm pretty sure the 4-6 year rule wouldn't apply. I can't say that it does around here, but I don't work on many consumer projectors unless they come in on a load I purchase.

I still love CRT projectors, they are an awesome piece of tech, and still manage to throw out the best non HD/UHD signal you can get which is great for older games Very Happy

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RaWsHaRk




Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 131
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I loved my D50, great 720p pic and it was the easiest crt to set up of the ones that I have tried, if mine didnt develop a pulsing pic problem I would still be using it. if you have it already, try it, you might like the pic quality. i set up mine in 15 minutes ---
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