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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:21 pm    Post subject: VDC marquee newest Gen. video neck boards Reply with quote


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I've only seen these posted in pictures before, but now have a set here. Has anyone ever tested these before? It obviously has absolutely nothing in common with the original Electrohome design, and it's hard to tell but it looks like they used the HA1100 op amp, although they attempted to sand off the ID you can still barely make it out.
You can see what happened on the back after they ran out of the Motorola transistors, the new transistors are bolted to the back of the heat sink through holes machined in the sides of the heat sink.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be super nice if you can test those, and document performance like bandwidth, noise/ blooming, gamma tracking, and stuff like that.

If i understood right, they are made for LUG tubes.
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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
Would be super nice if you can test those, and document performance like bandwidth, noise/ blooming, gamma tracking, and stuff like that.

If i understood right, they are made for LUG tubes.
sorry, I'm not your man. I have a couple of 9" tubes in the shop but no lenses. Even worse I really don't have the test patterns and proper source to really put these through their paces. Sad

The owner of the cards "might" be interested in selling them, I can ask. Or, anyone who buys the other machine off E-bay (2008 vintage 9500 in Washington) , might/should get the same cards?
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

draganm wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Would be super nice if you can test those, and document performance like bandwidth, noise/ blooming, gamma tracking, and stuff like that.

If i understood right, they are made for LUG tubes.
sorry, I'm not your man. I have a couple of 9" tubes in the shop but no lenses. Even worse I really don't have the test patterns and proper source to really put these through their paces. Sad

The owner of the cards "might" be interested in selling them, I can ask. Or, anyone who buys the other machine off E-bay (2008 vintage 9500 in Washington) , might/should get the same cards?


To bad, it seems like those having these boards just talk about them, no testing and documenting.

I have been curious, and would like to play with a set, but im not realy interested spending any money on them, as it seems like they will never compete with the boards i already have here.

I dont see any 2008 9500LC in Washington, can you send me a PB with a link please.?
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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
To bad, it seems like those having these boards just talk about them, no testing and documenting.

I have been curious, and would like to play with a set, but im not realy interested spending any money on them, as it seems like they will never compete with the boards i already have here.
well like I said these aren't mine and I don't have the equipment here ot do the kind of testing your looking for. I was just curious to see if anyone else had any experience with them

stridsvognen wrote:
I dont see any 2008 9500LC in Washington, can you send me a PB with a link please.?
sorry, looks like the last one is sold

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VDC-Electrohome-Marquee-9500lc-Ultra-Home-Theater-Projector-New-in-2008-/181516830220?pt=US_Video_Projectors&hash=item2a433f060c&nma=true&si=BxL8%252Bc99Hf2f9iEFGhCh2saIQTA%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dragan, What rev is yours I can't make out the letter.

here is mine these I believe are for DVB's and LCP's


EDIT: now looking closer i am not so sure. , Look on the back of the board and see what jumpers are connected. Ether A, B or both. Does your client know what Tubes he has in his set?




Athanasios

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the attached picture for identifying the pin assignment.

Yes, indeed it has the HFA1100, according to Tse, that IC was good enough in this application. Actually you don't need a 9" tube for testing the bandwidth nor fancy signal source. The patterns are available even on this forum, a PC's VGA output is faster than the most external DVI/HDMI converters, put up 1600x1200-75 or 85Hs on a 8" tube and that will eat the bandwidth, still would be sharp.
The problem with the new boards is that they need a matching VIM, because the SPOT KILLmechanism on the new VNB is not compatible with the old one, sooo carefully play with them...



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_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gabor, that is the schematic for the version that is not compatible with other VNB's I believe. There is another schematic for the version that is compatible.

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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gjaky




Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2789
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Gabor, that is the schematic for the version that is not compatible with other VNB's I believe. There is another schematic for the version that is compatible.

Nashou


Yes, I have that too. But if you look carefully at the first picture what Dragan posted, the sticker on the heatsink says '81771-02' so that is the matching schematic for that board.

_________________
projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh I thought you meant mine.

nashou

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok mine is 81771-01 but my jumper is at location A i believe and it should not then have a G2 wire off the board, but it does? I have been e-mailing Scott lets see what he says.


_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow, so you can burn a P19 tube by installing these or by using the wrong VIM even if you have LUGs. Shocked
Sorry, I used a "stock photo" since my camera batteries died. The ones I have here are 81771-02 H and the jumper is on A like the pic nash posted. I'm not sure where the G2 was since I received them off the machine.
the owner hasn't indicated tube type but it's a 9500 from a flight Sim. so likely LUG's.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont understand why it needs a different VIM, and if so why no one have ever shown the VIM that needs to go with these VNBs.

Nash... I remember you bought a complete set of 2008 boards with those VNBs, how is the VIM for those boards different? Board nr.?
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drags that wire yours has is not a G2 wire. it most likely is an Arc suppressor connection to one of the internal grids. I had to add one for the thomas tubes. For the LUGs no wire is needed, the jumper goes to pin 6. I need to have some time to trace it all with my DMM.

Kurt the VIM was the same. You do not need a different vim just all the same neck boards. no mixing them together from what Scott told me..

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Drags that wire yours has is not a G2 wire. it most likely is an Arc suppressor connection to one of the internal grids. I had to add one for the thomas tubes. For the LUGs no wire is needed, the jumper goes to pin 6.
Athanasios
I actually used one of Scotts photo's, on the ones here there is no jumper wire and I don't know where it was at time of dis-assembly.
So the VIM is standard, but I'm guessing these are still not suitable for P19LCP's in any way right?
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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Drags that wire yours has is not a G2 wire. it most likely is an Arc suppressor connection to one of the internal grids.
Just talked to the guy who bought these, the black wire in the ( borrowed) pic I posted is still attached to the tubes in his machine and it's going to both pins 1 and 2, so it's just ground for LUG's.

BTW, I don't remember Scott ever posting an explanation as to why VDC spent the money to completely re-design the VNB for the LUG tubes. I know the original card worked perfectly well by simply drilling out pin 6 and moving the White jumper wire there.
Of all the cards they could have re-worked, like the completely obsolete HDM using 1995 transistor technology, or the Noisy-ass Stig amp, why the VNB? Confused
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He mentioned that the supply of the Better motorola Transistors ran out since CRT was dwindling down. And the manufactures didn't want to spend more time and money to make a higher BW version so they just let these run out. Scott had to do some major rework of the circuit to tweak out as much frequency as possible to equal the old VNB's. He said these are also good to QXGA or 240mhz pixel clock as the old ones are.


Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So will someone test those new VNBs ? Or do we keep guessing about how they perform.? Wink
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is his exact words to me about the compatibility


TSE wrote:
Hi Nashou,

The boards can be used for tubes with G2 on pin 2 or pin 6. So for P19LCP09 you would put the jumper in the "B" position and install the G2 wire with the pin socket that you connect to pin 2 like the standard Marquee. If you have P19LUG tubes you would install jumper "A". You don't need the G2 wire for this tube.

The new boards are compatible with the VIM boards. The limitation is you cannot use the original neck cards with the new neck cards. If you want to use new neck cards you have to use three of them. If one or two original neck cards are installed the spotkill will not work on the new neck cards. Dangerous! The spotkill works fine with three new neck cards installed.

The remote control Brightness setting will have to be set a little different with the new cards as compared to the old ones and the internal test patterns won't be right.



But as I said it looks like on my VNB I have Jumper A and the G2 wire for pin 2. Hmmmmm?

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, Duh !!!! The LUG has G2 at pin 6 and the LCP has no connection at Pin 6 so this VNB can work with both even if you have the wire Like I do. If i cap off the wire I can use this on a LUG( covering the end of the G2 wire so there is no G2 arc) or connect the G2 wire to pin 2 on and LCP and not worry about the Jumper on "A" (pin 6) since there is no connection there on an LCP.


From AVS


tse wrote:
There wasn't a real good reason for using the HFA1100 other than it works good enough and there was already a VDC part number and spec sheet for it.

The 81771 cards won't work with the originals because when spotkill is enabled the transistors on the original cards will not allow the voltage to go higher than about +0.7 or 0.8V. That will not go high enough to kick in spotkill on the 81771 cards.

Spotkill has been a problem with different configurations because of the small difference between enabled and not. The 81771 takes more than +1V to kick in spotkill which allows more noise and crap without false enabling.

The 02-270340-01 card has the same thresholds as original Electrohome cards so spotkill works.

Scott



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_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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