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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:58 am Post subject: |
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One thing I don't understand is that there is a normal bunch of small wires between the port 3 board and the switcher while there is mini coax between switcher and rgb driver. I had all kinds of jitter on my screen whenI twisted these wires than by giving them free space the jitter was less but still there is a strange kind of small trembles. I will try mini coax there. I suspect the Moome will use the normal wire bunch.
And it only jiitered at 1080p was this port 3 connection even ment for high resolution?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:01 am Post subject: |
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I dont have that issue so i dont know!
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:15 am Post subject: |
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CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | I dont have that issue so i dont know! |
You probable don't have an internal hdmi
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:21 am Post subject: |
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This is how the hdmi can be connected to the outside.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:44 am Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | I dont have that issue so i dont know! |
You probable don't have an internal hdmi |
Not this week anyway!
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | redfox001 wrote: | CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | I dont have that issue so i dont know! |
You probable don't have an internal hdmi |
Not this week anyway! |
But did you test 1080p through port 3 and was there no jitter when you are close to the screen? I don't see it in my chair.
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dummyload
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 38 Location: belgium
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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At redfox001
you hit the nail on the head ,I have also noticed this recently.This why port 3 is inferior to port 5.
With port3 the analog RGB outputs go through ordinary unshielded wire to the switcher board this is a BIG NO GO.
Therefore I do not understand why moome or anyone else who does mods to port 3 board not used coax in the connection to the switcher board.Replace with coax should anyway yield an improvement (if output drivers moome board are 75 ohm ofcourse)
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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dummyload wrote: | At redfox001
you hit the nail on the head ,I have also noticed this recently.This why port 3 is inferior to port 5.
With port3 the analog RGB outputs go through ordinary unshielded wire to the switcher board this is a BIG NO GO.
Therefore I do not understand why moome or anyone else who does mods to port 3 board not used coax in the connection to the switcher board.Replace with coax should anyway yield an improvement (if output drivers moome board are 75 ohm ofcourse) |
Yes output are 75Ohm on the external Moome. I noticed a big increase in jitter when I twisted those wires as I said. One problem is that the connector on the switcher is not suited for coax. I might have to find some way to solder the coax to the board. But indeed also 75Ohm termination on the switcher.
Another point of concern is that the transistor on port 3 is 1 MHz and the transistor on port 5 is 5 MHz but I replaced those. I would think the best way for the Moome is to connect on port 5 somehow. But we should not overreact as most people will think there is little difference.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think the Moome should have mini coax soldered to the board and a small print with the other side of the coax soldered and the print should have the connector so everything else can remain the same.
If one want better transistors than the Eisemann mods are available.
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dummyload
Joined: 06 Apr 2006 Posts: 38 Location: belgium
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Interference and a non-linear gain is the result of an unschielded wire not to mention reflections .
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 06, 2014 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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I projected a hatch with sharp lines and parts of the line jumped to left and right. Guess that are reflections?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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Shield the wires!!
No i have absolutely no jitter on port 3 or 5, only the lines flashing in certain edge zones.
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:59 am Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: | This is how the hdmi can be connected to the outside.
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Im not sure how itll go with 4 good quality HDMI cables going in there...
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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But it is possible but you have to make holes.
I shielded the sync wires and put coax on the RGB and yes it jitters less. Still a very little not noticeable in the seat.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Why 4 you only need 1 HDMI cable.
Video Processor like a Lumagen is your friend.
_________________ Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: |
I shielded the sync wires and put coax on the RGB and yes it jitters less. Still a very little not noticeable in the seat. |
Had not expected this but this gives a nice improvement in picture quality. Everything look much more real.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2790 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: | redfox001 wrote: |
I shielded the sync wires and put coax on the RGB and yes it jitters less. Still a very little not noticeable in the seat. |
Had not expected this but this gives a nice improvement in picture quality. Everything look much more real. |
Do you see now the point of matching the cable impedances even when it is not a 'transmission line' as per your definition (shorter than 5-10 times wavelength cable)?
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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But it might also be the sync pulses that where really bad on this board. The person that made the board simple took a wire from the sync on the Moome to the board connector. A coupling cap in series to make only positive sync get through I guess. But the sync is terminated on 75 Ohm in the switcher. I made it in to 75 Ohm coax but I connected the shield only on the start so it is only a shield now I think. I should connect the shield also to an earth pin on the end to get an even better sync signal. See the grey wires.
I am also not happy with the way I soldered the connector for the RGB what do you think is that a problem? I think I will simple solder it to the board next time. See picture. Perhaps all jitter will be gone than.
There are two stabilisers for the +-17V that do a good job in noise reduction compared to rgbhv in on port 5. It is a nice board with little noise but low bandwidth and some jitter. If I knew how to make these filters to peak a little I would get further with it.
I am sure Moome will not work with these on board wires for sync for the new internal board and he also has nice stabilisers and better bandwidth. So perhaps doing a RGB mod is something we have to do ourself.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | Why 4 you only need 1 HDMI cable.
Video Processor like a Lumagen is your friend. |
Because there is four inputs, and a Lumagen is dear as f***, what else would i ever use it for once i go to a digital???
You most certainly need at least two HDMIs connected, i prefer to be able to plug the OPPO straight in to the projector.
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:48 am Post subject: |
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You have some pros with a video processor like a Lumagen:
- one output (which is color calibrated) for all your connected devices
- color calibration is much more easier
Just my opinion
cheers
ElTopo
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