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Moome's new Barco HDMI 1.4 card
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redfox001




Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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818x1920p 72Hz works fine with this Moome. I could not get that resolution to sync earlier and now I see what I missed. Movement is much better like this.

I think I am happy with the Cinemax right now. I can totally enjoy a movie and see no more big issues. I also have a band to the left but will solve that with better timings. The overall image is simple wow.

Now I will not go the further modification path with the Barco as she is good now. I choose to go the ultra resolution path with the Marquee. I just heard that those boards will do 300MHz and I am very interested where that will lead me.

Good card this Moome! You will enjoy your movies with it.

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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
2048 x 1536 into each BR909 for blending would be 4K

Thumbs Up

No it wont, 4096x2160 is 4K so youd be hard edge blending, UHD is still 2160 high, so youre still 624 lines short. Even if you go 2.35:1 youre still over 200 lines short. Youll still be short if you use UHD instead of 4K at 2.4:1 aspect as that is still 1600 lines.

Can you even buy material at that resolution?

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there anyone using a 909 who belive that they will benefit from 4K ?

Even if they could use 4 x 909.?
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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not me no.

You would need more than two, you will need 2100 lines wide to do 4096x2160.

Maybe if you go with 3 of them on their sides at 2160x1400 you might stand a better chance, but itll still need to be interlaced if you want it to look sharp.

2048x1536 is less than required in both directions.

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I figured out on my Res editor going with the current 192 blend zone I use that would be 2016x1600 for a 2.4 aspect.


Might give it a shot upscaling BD 2.4 aspect movies when i feel motivated.


Stock Marquee's of course.


nashou

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redfox001




Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one problem with the Moome. I want to disable the gamma. I guessed the right gamma by going clicks up or down till it looked right than I measured and the gamma turned out to be reasonable but it would be simpler if I could disable the gamma.

If I post a picture could someone help me with that?

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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1608



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Case,

if you do 3840 x 2160 it should work.

You will not use the 2160 of course for cinemascope.

So if you do 2048 x 1536 on each you'll have a blend zone of 256.


ElTopo

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that a 256 blend zone is too large, 190-210 range works best. 230 is pushing it but still ok.
What happens is the zone is more visible on bright scenes when its larger, but not as visible in dark scenes.

The smaller you get the less you see it on bright but more more on dark unless you really get the edge
brightness of the tub face as uniform as the center of the tube. I wish we could use lenses larger than the tube
to not have to bump up the edge contrast to compensate.

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?

You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.

craigr

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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redfox001 wrote:
I have one problem with the Moome. I want to disable the gamma. I guessed the right gamma by going clicks up or down till it looked right than I measured and the gamma turned out to be reasonable but it would be simpler if I could disable the gamma.

If I post a picture could someone help me with that?

Shoot Moome an email and ask him. On his current design you will probably have to remove a very small surface mount IC. This will take the gamma circuit out of the equation. I could probably tell you by looking at high resolution images of the front of the board, but I'm not sure.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?

You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.

craigr


Im thinking about having the speed to show the details in the source, CRT have plenty of soft edge without fighting with limited bandwidth noise and other issues.

Having linear gain tracking so that you can define colors right at any resolution at any level from the source, on pixel basis.

If you look at the G90 its sharp, but it has no background details, and very very muted colors in high resolution parts.

I cant see what fun it would be in pushing a CRT more when its fighting so much to display a 1080P image.

A good goal would in my opinion be to fully resolve a 1080P 72hz and see how that looks like.

Anyone here who have seen that on a CRT.?
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CIR Engineering




Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 4264
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?

You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.

craigr


Im thinking about having the speed to show the details in the source, CRT have plenty of soft edge without fighting with limited bandwidth noise and other issues.

Having linear gain tracking so that you can define colors right at any resolution at any level from the source, on pixel basis.

If you look at the G90 its sharp, but it has no background details, and very very muted colors in high resolution parts.

I cant see what fun it would be in pushing a CRT more when its fighting so much to display a 1080P image.

A good goal would in my opinion be to fully resolve a 1080P 72hz and see how that looks like.

Anyone here who have seen that on a CRT.?

You fundamentally miss the big picture on a lot of this Kurt. I wish I had unlimited time to write on the forum but I don't.

craigr

_________________
*NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
CIR Engineering wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?

You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.

craigr


Im thinking about having the speed to show the details in the source, CRT have plenty of soft edge without fighting with limited bandwidth noise and other issues.

Having linear gain tracking so that you can define colors right at any resolution at any level from the source, on pixel basis.

If you look at the G90 its sharp, but it has no background details, and very very muted colors in high resolution parts.

I cant see what fun it would be in pushing a CRT more when its fighting so much to display a 1080P image.

A good goal would in my opinion be to fully resolve a 1080P 72hz and see how that looks like.

Anyone here who have seen that on a CRT.?

You fundamentally miss the big picture on a lot of this Kurt. I wish I had unlimited time to write on the forum but I don't.

craigr


I know its a preference thing, and there is lots of you out there who like CRT for being soft / smooth, together with a pretty poor ansi contrast, and very bad low level details.

Im not a great fan of the way most digital projectors look, but i have a desire to be as true to the source material as possible with the display im using, and i can easy see how no crt projectors get a single color right when the resolution passes SD resolution, you might not notice it, or dont care, but thats just how it is.

They simply shoot all over the place with more or less random level and colors, And it do matter if its right or wrong, the more right it gets the more you experience HD.

Now talking about 4K on a CRT blend, it sounds mostly like a blind man trying to impress his friends with high numbers.

Go build a G90 with a modified 300Mhz Marquee video chain, and a set of 'Barco 909 lenses, and i guess you will be getting a feeling of the HD experience on a CRT projector.

When you got that one right you can always mute it with a Radiance, so it wont look to realistic..
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ElTopo




Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1608



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The thing is i wanna do a 2.40 screen with 3,6m in width.

I cannot light 3,6m with the screen distance i have in my room.

So a stack will not work.

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
The thing is i wanna do a 2.40 screen with 3,6m in width.

I cannot light 3,6m with the screen distance i have in my room.

So a stack will not work.


Andy Halliday in England has a Barco 909 blend or it might be a 1209 blend not sure.

But he is on Facebook a lot and a member of the CRT home theater club page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/492913890547/


He said he might be working on it this winter as he has been into Bike racing
and time trials have been taking up a lot of his time for crt.

But he might have some tips or pointers for those who want to blend Barcos. He also uses the TV-Ones.


Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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geisemann




Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 33



PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:50 pm    Post subject: New HDMI Card Reply with quote

Hello,

Its been a wile since I have been on the form and some of my customers informed me about this thread.

I wanted to say the claims here can't be the case and this card cannot provide the best picture unless you update the switcher card.

In our HDMI mod we REQUIRE all customers to provide there switcher card for updating as well as the port 3.

I Also wanted to update people that we have a brand new HDMI card just developed. The first ones shipped 1 months ago.

These cards have a much sharper image over the old card that some had tested. We use a custom 1.4 chip currently.

I can guarantee it will be the best picture for your barco and its 35% sharper than our old card. Its designed to be custom matched to our mod set and your switcher card.

By just replacing the HDMI card without updating the rest of the video chain will provide a soft image. This simple replacement will not take advantage of the bandwidth and high resolution in the HD signal.

This card sold has extra amps to overcome the interface on the switcher card that is aprox .7V P-P more video. In our mod we remove the amps on the switcher card and also the HDMI card. We all know the less amps the better the noise, less harmonics and better resolution. Barco has to boast the video signal on the port 3 so we changed the gain and resistors on the port 3.

The barco switcher card has a very low Bandwidth transistor on the port 3 input because this was for old PC systems with low resolution and they wanted to keep noise levels down at lower resolutions.

If people really want to buy this card over our HDMI card I can upgrade your Switcher, RGB driver and Neck cards to match.


Gregory Eisemann

www.eisemann-theater.com
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redfox001




Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 2251
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True. Go for the complete mods if you want the best out of it.

My clame is it performs bandwidth wise equal to the best vga solution on port 5 that I found but I upgraded the resistors you mention myself. Perhaps I will compare with an old switcher I have laying here. But it is much better than the vga because lower noise. I also clame it is better than the external moome that was on port 3 in my case.

But I just gave a first impression with my Cinemax and it just looked good. I can see that in one minute with all the settings wrong and half calibrated. Some sharpness and detail came out and the picture was rocksolid.

Is it possible to just have neckboards upgraded?

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CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Case,

if you do 3840 x 2160 it should work.

You will not use the 2160 of course for cinemascope.

So if you do 2048 x 1536 on each you'll have a blend zone of 256.


ElTopo

1536 is not enough lines.... You will need 1600 lines for 2.4:1, 1621 lines for 2.37:1, and 1635 lines for 2.35:1

You probably wont get that through the MOOME card anyway, you will need to go through RGB, where i have done 2560x1600 but it wasnt nearly as sharp as 1920x1080, mayby if you try 2048x1635i and see how it looks, it may be ok.
stridsvognen wrote:
I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?

I dont either, but who cares.

CIR Engineering wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.

What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?

You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.

craigr

Exactly.

_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow a new Eisemann BARCO mod.. Wonder if there will be any documentation showing how the improvement was calculated.?

Greg there is some really simple test patterns who will help you document the performance, you should try post some screen shots.

What is the bandwidth of the latest fully moddet 909.?
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