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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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818x1920p 72Hz works fine with this Moome. I could not get that resolution to sync earlier and now I see what I missed. Movement is much better like this.
I think I am happy with the Cinemax right now. I can totally enjoy a movie and see no more big issues. I also have a band to the left but will solve that with better timings. The overall image is simple wow.
Now I will not go the further modification path with the Barco as she is good now. I choose to go the ultra resolution path with the Marquee. I just heard that those boards will do 300MHz and I am very interested where that will lead me.
Good card this Moome! You will enjoy your movies with it.
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:04 am Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | 2048 x 1536 into each BR909 for blending would be 4K
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No it wont, 4096x2160 is 4K so youd be hard edge blending, UHD is still 2160 high, so youre still 624 lines short. Even if you go 2.35:1 youre still over 200 lines short. Youll still be short if you use UHD instead of 4K at 2.4:1 aspect as that is still 1600 lines.
Can you even buy material at that resolution?
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:50 am Post subject: |
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Is there anyone using a 909 who belive that they will benefit from 4K ?
Even if they could use 4 x 909.?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:49 am Post subject: |
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Not me no.
You would need more than two, you will need 2100 lines wide to do 4096x2160.
Maybe if you go with 3 of them on their sides at 2160x1400 you might stand a better chance, but itll still need to be interlaced if you want it to look sharp.
2048x1536 is less than required in both directions.
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I have one problem with the Moome. I want to disable the gamma. I guessed the right gamma by going clicks up or down till it looked right than I measured and the gamma turned out to be reasonable but it would be simpler if I could disable the gamma.
If I post a picture could someone help me with that?
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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Case,
if you do 3840 x 2160 it should work.
You will not use the 2160 of course for cinemascope.
So if you do 2048 x 1536 on each you'll have a blend zone of 256.
ElTopo
_________________ Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I find that a 256 blend zone is too large, 190-210 range works best. 230 is pushing it but still ok.
What happens is the zone is more visible on bright scenes when its larger, but not as visible in dark scenes.
The smaller you get the less you see it on bright but more more on dark unless you really get the edge
brightness of the tub face as uniform as the center of the tube. I wish we could use lenses larger than the tube
to not have to bump up the edge contrast to compensate.
Nashou
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.?
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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stridsvognen wrote: | I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.? |
You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
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X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
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*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: | I have one problem with the Moome. I want to disable the gamma. I guessed the right gamma by going clicks up or down till it looked right than I measured and the gamma turned out to be reasonable but it would be simpler if I could disable the gamma.
If I post a picture could someone help me with that? |
Shoot Moome an email and ask him. On his current design you will probably have to remove a very small surface mount IC. This will take the gamma circuit out of the equation. I could probably tell you by looking at high resolution images of the front of the board, but I'm not sure.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.? |
You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.
craigr |
Im thinking about having the speed to show the details in the source, CRT have plenty of soft edge without fighting with limited bandwidth noise and other issues.
Having linear gain tracking so that you can define colors right at any resolution at any level from the source, on pixel basis.
If you look at the G90 its sharp, but it has no background details, and very very muted colors in high resolution parts.
I cant see what fun it would be in pushing a CRT more when its fighting so much to display a 1080P image.
A good goal would in my opinion be to fully resolve a 1080P 72hz and see how that looks like.
Anyone here who have seen that on a CRT.?
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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stridsvognen wrote: | CIR Engineering wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.? |
You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.
craigr |
Im thinking about having the speed to show the details in the source, CRT have plenty of soft edge without fighting with limited bandwidth noise and other issues.
Having linear gain tracking so that you can define colors right at any resolution at any level from the source, on pixel basis.
If you look at the G90 its sharp, but it has no background details, and very very muted colors in high resolution parts.
I cant see what fun it would be in pushing a CRT more when its fighting so much to display a 1080P image.
A good goal would in my opinion be to fully resolve a 1080P 72hz and see how that looks like.
Anyone here who have seen that on a CRT.? |
You fundamentally miss the big picture on a lot of this Kurt. I wish I had unlimited time to write on the forum but I don't.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | CIR Engineering wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.? |
You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.
craigr |
Im thinking about having the speed to show the details in the source, CRT have plenty of soft edge without fighting with limited bandwidth noise and other issues.
Having linear gain tracking so that you can define colors right at any resolution at any level from the source, on pixel basis.
If you look at the G90 its sharp, but it has no background details, and very very muted colors in high resolution parts.
I cant see what fun it would be in pushing a CRT more when its fighting so much to display a 1080P image.
A good goal would in my opinion be to fully resolve a 1080P 72hz and see how that looks like.
Anyone here who have seen that on a CRT.? |
You fundamentally miss the big picture on a lot of this Kurt. I wish I had unlimited time to write on the forum but I don't.
craigr |
I know its a preference thing, and there is lots of you out there who like CRT for being soft / smooth, together with a pretty poor ansi contrast, and very bad low level details.
Im not a great fan of the way most digital projectors look, but i have a desire to be as true to the source material as possible with the display im using, and i can easy see how no crt projectors get a single color right when the resolution passes SD resolution, you might not notice it, or dont care, but thats just how it is.
They simply shoot all over the place with more or less random level and colors, And it do matter if its right or wrong, the more right it gets the more you experience HD.
Now talking about 4K on a CRT blend, it sounds mostly like a blind man trying to impress his friends with high numbers.
Go build a G90 with a modified 300Mhz Marquee video chain, and a set of 'Barco 909 lenses, and i guess you will be getting a feeling of the HD experience on a CRT projector.
When you got that one right you can always mute it with a Radiance, so it wont look to realistic..
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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The thing is i wanna do a 2.40 screen with 3,6m in width.
I cannot light 3,6m with the screen distance i have in my room.
So a stack will not work.
_________________ Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | The thing is i wanna do a 2.40 screen with 3,6m in width.
I cannot light 3,6m with the screen distance i have in my room.
So a stack will not work. |
Andy Halliday in England has a Barco 909 blend or it might be a 1209 blend not sure.
But he is on Facebook a lot and a member of the CRT home theater club page
https://www.facebook.com/groups/492913890547/
He said he might be working on it this winter as he has been into Bike racing
and time trials have been taking up a lot of his time for crt.
But he might have some tips or pointers for those who want to blend Barcos. He also uses the TV-Ones.
Nashou
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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geisemann
Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Posts: 33
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:50 pm Post subject: New HDMI Card |
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Hello,
Its been a wile since I have been on the form and some of my customers informed me about this thread.
I wanted to say the claims here can't be the case and this card cannot provide the best picture unless you update the switcher card.
In our HDMI mod we REQUIRE all customers to provide there switcher card for updating as well as the port 3.
I Also wanted to update people that we have a brand new HDMI card just developed. The first ones shipped 1 months ago.
These cards have a much sharper image over the old card that some had tested. We use a custom 1.4 chip currently.
I can guarantee it will be the best picture for your barco and its 35% sharper than our old card. Its designed to be custom matched to our mod set and your switcher card.
By just replacing the HDMI card without updating the rest of the video chain will provide a soft image. This simple replacement will not take advantage of the bandwidth and high resolution in the HD signal.
This card sold has extra amps to overcome the interface on the switcher card that is aprox .7V P-P more video. In our mod we remove the amps on the switcher card and also the HDMI card. We all know the less amps the better the noise, less harmonics and better resolution. Barco has to boast the video signal on the port 3 so we changed the gain and resistors on the port 3.
The barco switcher card has a very low Bandwidth transistor on the port 3 input because this was for old PC systems with low resolution and they wanted to keep noise levels down at lower resolutions.
If people really want to buy this card over our HDMI card I can upgrade your Switcher, RGB driver and Neck cards to match.
Gregory Eisemann
www.eisemann-theater.com
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:05 am Post subject: |
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True. Go for the complete mods if you want the best out of it.
My clame is it performs bandwidth wise equal to the best vga solution on port 5 that I found but I upgraded the resistors you mention myself. Perhaps I will compare with an old switcher I have laying here. But it is much better than the vga because lower noise. I also clame it is better than the external moome that was on port 3 in my case.
But I just gave a first impression with my Cinemax and it just looked good. I can see that in one minute with all the settings wrong and half calibrated. Some sharpness and detail came out and the picture was rocksolid.
Is it possible to just have neckboards upgraded?
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:12 am Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | Case,
if you do 3840 x 2160 it should work.
You will not use the 2160 of course for cinemascope.
So if you do 2048 x 1536 on each you'll have a blend zone of 256.
ElTopo |
1536 is not enough lines.... You will need 1600 lines for 2.4:1, 1621 lines for 2.37:1, and 1635 lines for 2.35:1
You probably wont get that through the MOOME card anyway, you will need to go through RGB, where i have done 2560x1600 but it wasnt nearly as sharp as 1920x1080, mayby if you try 2048x1635i and see how it looks, it may be ok.
stridsvognen wrote: | I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.? |
I dont either, but who cares.
CIR Engineering wrote: | stridsvognen wrote: | I still dont understand why anyone would even think about trying 4K blend with projectors who cant resolve 720P 60hz.
What is the max resolution a 909 will resolve.? |
You're thinking in terms of full resolution which is black on white. There are all levels of resolution for edges that are not hard edges unlike on the 1:1 test pattern. Even without fully resolving a signal a projector can show more detail.
craigr |
Exactly.
_________________ Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...
RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Wow a new Eisemann BARCO mod.. Wonder if there will be any documentation showing how the improvement was calculated.?
Greg there is some really simple test patterns who will help you document the performance, you should try post some screen shots.
What is the bandwidth of the latest fully moddet 909.?
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