Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

DeskTop Non-HTPC Options
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Home Theater PCs
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:03 am    Post subject: DeskTop Non-HTPC Options Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
My desktop died and I'm looking for a new one.

I typically buy Dell and like the XPS Series for the decent performance and how quite they are. Unfortunately Dell has reduced the options to a few bundled packages. So it is hard to find the right combinations features.

So I checked out Alien-ware (on the Dell site) and they had more options to choose and from. For ~$100 more I get better optical drive better processor, faster memory, liquid cooling, but no monitor. I have no intention for gaming just web, HD video and photo editing, CAD.

so...

1) how quiet is the AMD Radeon™ R9 270 with 2GB GDDR5 video card. I'm thinking jet engine if I remember what gaming systems were like.
2) How reliable is Alien-ware? I've run most of my PC >10yrs.
3) I don't care for proprietary stuff like you used to get with a Compaq or similar. What else is out there to compare to the XPS series.
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you considered buying the items you need and building your own? Its very easy, and you will get alot more for alot less. You can make them as quiet as you like.

Video cards are typically pretty quiet these days, not to say they all will be, but all the more recent models ive seen have been very quiet.

What is wrong with the other one? It may be easily repaired.

Alienware is a rip off, not because they arent decent computers, but because they are outrageously priced. You dont get much for your money.

_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
Back to top
Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much graphics power do you need? What was your last graphics card and was it good enough for the tasks you needed it for?
Back to top
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
How much graphics power do you need? What was your last graphics card and was it good enough for the tasks you needed it for?


Last card was an ATI Radeon X600 256Mb. Good enough for everything except video editing. I would always get a nag box about hardware acceleration being disabled editing HD video.


CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Have you considered buying the items you need and building your own? Its very easy, and you will get alot more for alot less. You can make them as quiet as you like.

Yes. Last build was my HTPC. I kind of went over budget a little. I don't build very often so when I do I get nervous selecting budget items and find myself buying one or two levels up.

I did work up a system quickly and I can get everything for ~70% the cost of the XPS. I still need to research more.
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Going a few levels up usually ensures long life Wink
_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
Back to top
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about a quiet/silent case design that is effective with standard components, no exotic water cooling or fan-less PSU.

Looking for recommendations and personal experiences?

_________________
My Volt Blog
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFryia wrote:
Spanky Ham wrote:
How much graphics power do you need? What was your last graphics card and was it good enough for the tasks you needed it for?


Last card was an ATI Radeon X600 256Mb. Good enough for everything except video editing. I would always get a nag box about hardware acceleration being disabled editing HD video.


CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Have you considered buying the items you need and building your own? Its very easy, and you will get alot more for alot less. You can make them as quiet as you like.

Yes. Last build was my HTPC. I kind of went over budget a little. I don't build very often so when I do I get nervous selecting budget items and find myself buying one or two levels up.

I did work up a system quickly and I can get everything for ~70% the cost of the XPS. I still need to research more.



I had to look it up. That card is almost 10 years old. No wonder you had issues with editing.

First thing is what programs are you running? You might be able to get away with on-board graphics. My Intel Sandy Bridge has no issues with HD video, so much so that I pulled the graphics card and only use it for games.

If you go with integrated graphics, then you reduce the sound quite a bit. The loudest component in my box is the power supply and it isn't even that bad.

Check out Toms graphics card hierarchy chart. They don't include Haswell's graphics, but it is about 20% faster.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html
Back to top
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right now I'm looking at Adobe elements 12 and perhaps Lightroom or similar. The company I work for also has proprietary robot simulation software and SolidWorks.

Right now I'm looking at fan-less video cards 2MB. Is the on-board video chip separate and independent of the CPU?

_________________
My Volt Blog
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ummmm, ok. Adobe should be fine with Intel's on-board graphics. A quick search shows that Solidworks performs best with a pro card like a Quadra. This guy drew up a system that came to $900.
https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/78834
Back to top
CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Loads of fanless video cards around these days, and very cheap too. Yes onboard video is a separate chip to the CPU, but i wouldnt use it. In many cases it shares the system RAM, which means its slow as f*** if it does, and shared resources are never good. Whether it will do what you need it to now is somewhat irrelevant, it may not do what you want it to adequately in 12 months time, and buying a board with intergrated graphics is really pointless if you plan on adding a video card later on. Onboard intergrated graphics are for web browsing and word processing, office computers, and thats all its good for. Itll do the other stuff, but its a compromise, and its not designed for anything more.

Fanless CPU cooler might be asking abit much though.

If you want it to last a long time, id be building on current chipsets, ie the X79 or simular, youve got a far better chance of getting parts for it if it fails. If you buy good quality stuff like ASUS and Gigabyte youll be very unlikely to have failures anyway.

I wouldnt give you ten cents for a Socket 1150 or 1155 either, they are very out of date.

_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
Back to top
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
I wouldnt give you ten cents for a Socket 1150 or 1155 either, they are very out of date.

Oh! Is the 22XX more current. Those were more money!
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFryia wrote:
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
I wouldnt give you ten cents for a Socket 1150 or 1155 either, they are very out of date.

Oh! Is the 22XX more current. Those were more money!


What is your budget? How much time are you going to spend on CAD?

If you spend a lot of time doing CAD, then get a Quardro or Fire.



CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Loads of fanless video cards around these days, and very cheap too. Yes onboard video is a separate chip to the CPU, but i wouldnt use it. In many cases it shares the system RAM, which means its slow as f*** if it does, and shared resources are never good. Whether it will do what you need it to now is somewhat irrelevant, it may not do what you want it to adequately in 12 months time, and buying a board with intergrated graphics is really pointless if you plan on adding a video card later on. Onboard intergrated graphics are for web browsing and word processing, office computers, and thats all its good for. Itll do the other stuff, but its a compromise, and its not designed for anything more.

Fanless CPU cooler might be asking abit much though.

If you want it to last a long time, id be building on current chipsets, ie the X79 or simular, youve got a far better chance of getting parts for it if it fails. If you buy good quality stuff like ASUS and Gigabyte youll be very unlikely to have failures anyway.

I wouldnt give you ten cents for a Socket 1150 or 1155 either, they are very out of date.


Seriously? Where to start?

Integrated graphics is more than adequate for everything except for high res gaming and other graphic intensive tasks. He was running an X600. Intel's integrated HD4600 is faster than that by quite a margin. Matter of fact it is on par with the fastest graphic cards from seven years ago. It has the added advantage of being up to date with DirectX, OpenGl and the rest of the extensions. There are a lot of people over at AVS that are using integrated graphics (either AMD or Intel) for their HTPCs.


I do agree that integrated graphics is mostly a waste if you are adding a video card. I use both. When I game I put in the 5770 and everything else is integrated. Why? The graphics card is much louder than the rest of the components combined.


As for chipsets and sockets, I assume you were talking about Z97. Socket 1150 is the current socket for Haswell and will be for Broadwell. I don't see how even choosing a 1155 would be bad. Is it a couple of years old? Yes, but it is still really fast in comparison to what a lot of people are running.
Back to top
CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously... Where to stop??? Laughing Laughing

Hmmm...


If youre reading what ive said and misinterpret its meaning, then i will attempt to clear it up for you. Basically, you wont find anywhere in that passage that i dissagree with you in anything other than opinion. Im not saying it wont be adequate, cause we both know it will, im saying its a compromise, and certainly not one id be keen to make on a PC you expect to work with for ten years.

You can get reasonably powerful video cards with no fans now. Silent. I can see exactly what youre saying about his X600 being quite a stone aged piece and no match for current intergrated solutions and i certainly agree, but thats not my point.

The main point you miss with my statements about intergrated video i feel is the fact it shares critical resources. That doesnt just mean its gonna take up abit of extra RAM, its gonna share the same bus for that RAM, and itll share the same bus as the onboard SATA controller too. This is no problem at all with a HTPC, its merely playing a media file and not much else, but when youre doing multiple things, itll push more items toward the limit. It may not be an issue, but what i am saying is its not a path i recomend.

The 1150 is an office computer in 3 years time, its no match for a high end AMD, its dearer than a high end AMD, and if im going Intel, im going LGA2011 with the X79 chipset. Its not much dearer, but WAY more powerful, and considerably more future-proof. Its not about what other people are running, its about what is suitable for the task of long term use. Itll do 20 times what he needs, which is what he should aim for cause in ten years it will likely still be adequate for the purpose and hopefully with have cost him nothing at all after initial outlay.

But "seriously", he wants a PC thatll go ten years, not 36 months. He was going to fork out for an Alienware, so why not build something decent? I just get the impression here that he is more interested in building something for abit of long term usability more so than a budget build to get him by another couple years.

I have been known to go rather overboard on PC builds, but in doing so i generally create a machine that will serve a purpose for a very long time, which i believe is cheaper in the long run.

_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
Back to top
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I value the input from both of you so I should elaborate a little.

This is my situation and thinking...

~9 years ago I didn't realize the Dell XPS I bought was such a proprietary rig with bTX board that was never adopted industry wide. Just got stuck with another paper weight.

My though was and still is every 6-10 years I'll just buy a new CPU, motherboard and OS of the day, drop it in the same case and be good for another cycle. Obviously I'd upgrade the graphics and monitor but not necessarily right away. So a new ATX case is on my list.

On the CAD side specifically SolidWorks or similar I just need to be able to open assemblies, review, minor edits. I'm not a designer so I don't need a SW spec machine. My old X600 card would run SW just needed a little more for the larger files.

The 20XX boards are an extra $100-150. This is primarily an office PC so I assume the 1150/55 boards with Z87 chipset will suffice? What will a 20XX board provide other that 8 memory slots?

_________________
My Volt Blog
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK I'm confused. Reading online I see posts indicating the 2011 socket is dead and 1150 is newer?

What socket is the newest, older, obsolete?

_________________
My Volt Blog
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Essentially while my opinion differs from Spanky's it is not because i dont believe he is correct, we just have a different opinion on what the outcome should be. I try to over-engineer everything i build, where as he probably likes a more economical route.

Not all the 2011 boards do have 8x DDR3 slots, some only have 4 of them, which would do you just fine.

The 2011 has quad channel RAM, which wont help you much now, but it sure will in time to come.

2011 and 1150 are around a simular age, but the 1150 is not greatly improved over the 1155, and the AMD solutions would be a better choice over the 1150 in my opinion, AMD are perfectly good and very reliable, just significantly cheaper than Intel, and cant provide the same raw power of the 2011. The older 1366 socket Intel is still capable of more than the 1150.

_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
Back to top
Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand what you are saying Case, but you are recommending he buy a military Humvee when the closest he gets to going off-road is parking in the front yard. Wink

You still haven't given a budget, but based on what you are saying here is where you should start.

CPU - latest Intel Haswell
Mobo - 1150 in either H97 or Z97
Memory - 8 gigs or more
Hard Drive - SSD along with regular drive
Blu Ray - any generic
PSU - check reviews at Newegg
Case - same as PSU
Windows 8.1

You should start there and then if you need more graphics power for CAD then buy a pro card. If your old card could almost handle it, then probably the cheapest fanless card would have no problem.

If you aren't using a dedicated graphics card, then you can cut back on your PSU. My best friend talked me into an overkill 650 watt unit a couple of years ago. Since I don't have a card in there right now, I could probably get away with a 300 watt power supply.

As for noise, I tried checking yesterday with a phone SPL meter and I didn't get a reading louder than background. My background was pretty loud at around 50 db. With the stock CPU cooler, my PSU is the loudest component followed by the CPU. It doesn't bother me till I put the vacuum clea.... I mean 5770 card in there.
Back to top
CasetheCorvetteman




Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha!! One should always be prepared Spanky, his front yard might be prone to flooding Laughing

Even a cheaper fanless card with a touch less raw power will still provide a better working machine with greater capability, either way you go.

Id go AMD before Intel if youre going that range, if prices here are simular to there, youll get alot more for alot less.

The thing about a bigger better power supply is stability and reliability, i always go for that over all else. Its a pretty important item, and a cheapy could could you some pretty annoying issues later on.

SSDs these days seem to be simular prices for the PCI-E type ones, although performance figures are about the same, real world performance can be considerably better than using the onboard SATA controller that shares a 1x PCI-E bus with a few other components, run the disk and bluray player from the onboard as they could never really put enough strain on the bus to ever see it even in benching. But run two of the same HDDs in RAID1 to limit chances of data loss or downtime, its not like as if they are dear to buy.

The bottleneck with modern SSDs is almost always the onboard SATA controller, hence id aim for a reasonable PCI-E type unit. Im unlikely to be able to convince you to install a 4x RAID0 PCI-E commercial grade OCZ SSD with an 1,800 megabyte/sec read rate or a 16 port 3.4 gigabyte/sec + RAID card with as many SSDs as you can cram into the drive bays... spanky sure as hell wouldnt support my notion and i could probably understand why too Laughing

_________________
Barco CineMAX, 120" OZ Theatre Majestic 16:9 screen, H/K AVR 7.1...

RUNCO DTV991 LC ( NEC XG 852 LC ) 100" 4:3 screen, H/K AVR 5.1...
Back to top
AFryia




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 956
Location: S.E. Michigan VPH-G70Q


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Budget $1000-1500 case included. Single HD, no SSD, fanless video card >=2MB, 32MB mem.

Now I was thinking Win7 Pro vs Win8.1. That whole tiled App smartphone on a PC thing I'm not sure about.

_________________
My Volt Blog
Back to top
View user's photo album (33 photos)
Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At that price range, you can pretty much go crazy.

You should get a SSD, if only for a boot drive.

Windows 8.1, I believe, has a classic screen layout.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Home Theater PCs All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum