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Home automation...

 
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 6:19 am    Post subject: Home automation... Reply with quote


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In another thread, Greg had some questions about Insteon vs. Z-Wave, and it's a pretty deep, evolving subject, and I thought a few others might be interested in automation, so I thought I'd just start a whole new thread.

greg_mitch wrote:
BTW - do you like your Insteon Hub? I bought a refurb for the new place but don't have any devices. With the prices for z-wave devices I am thinking of switching away from Insteon. Thoughts?

I don't use the Hub. I use Indigo running on a Mac mini. I have for years. It's much, much more powerful than a Hub. For a more comparable capability, but in an appliance, you'd have to look at the Universal Devices ISY:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007JM29LU/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B007JM29LU&linkCode=as2&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&linkId=P2SDHDMJZPN6NJZR

There's also a version with Z-Wave, and another version with Z-Wave and Zigbee. With any of the ISY's, you need a Dual Band PLM to go along with it.

The price of the devices really isn't that much different. Smarthome usually has a big sale every couple of months, so while the dimmers might start out $50/ea, they just did a "buy five, get one free" so they'll net out about $42. When I bought a bunch of stuff for my new house last fall, it was a 20% off sale, so I bought almost a grand worth of stuff and got almost $200 off. The Insteon stuff is also faster and better, so at least you're getting something for a little extra expense.

You can mix and match now, too. ISY used to be Insteon-only, but it can control Z-Wave now, too. The HomeSeer controllers can now control both Z-Wave and Insteon and both ISY and HomeSeer have a version that will also control Zigbee devices, but not all Zigbee devices (usually locks) will work with each other.

Cheers,
SC
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greg_mitch




Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5321



PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a single room perspective I really liked the Insteon solutions. I wasn't much on their software. They released an OK app for iPhone and Windows 8 but I thought it was severely lacking but simple.

I am always walking the line between lots of features and not complicated to program. I stalk deals websites and only ever see deals on z-wave stuff. Zigbee even doesn't show up much. China must be all over z-wave. You never seen Insteon stuff.

I like how the ISY devices are now multi protocol.

Are the Wink and Smarthings hubs just toys? SmartThings seems pretty enticing.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg_mitch wrote:
From a single room perspective I really liked the Insteon solutions. I wasn't much on their software. They released an OK app for iPhone and Windows 8 but I thought it was severely lacking but simple.

It's a relatively new product, so early in the development lifecycle. No doubt it will get better.

greg_mitch wrote:
I am always walking the line between lots of features and not complicated to program. I stalk deals websites and only ever see deals on z-wave stuff. Zigbee even doesn't show up much. China must be all over z-wave. You never seen Insteon stuff.

I hear ya. The more complicated something is, the less likely I am to use it, which then means I'm not getting the value out of what I spent. This is why I went with a Mac-based solution way back in... I don't know... 2005. I don't think the ISY even existed back then. Originally, Indigo just "programmed" a PLC - a controller. It had a clock, memory for events, and some basic logic. It was a glorified timer. But, then they kept adding more and more to the software, and pretty soon it made sense to just use a computer. So, I bought a $150 Mac mini that runs 15-20w at idle, and it runs my home automation. What's neat is that it can do MUCH more than you'd imagine. It can do things based on emails, it can send emails when certain things happen... I just bought a Smoke Bridge so all my lights will turn on if a smoke detector goes off. That's a real, useful, safety feature. To me, that almost makes the expense of everything worth it all by itself.

As for deals... Yeah, you won't see Insteon on "deals" sites because it's not a mass-market consumer product and the numbers just aren't there relative to the "at large" deal community. You don't see Insteon and you don't see surround processors or Crown amps or Honeywell security panels or...

If you're really interested in Insteon, go to Smarthome and sign up for their mailing list. Like I said, about once a quarter, there will be a really good sale and you can save a bundle if you're ready to go nuts. Oh, and Best Buy has Insteon starter kits on sale sometimes at huge discounts. Nothing right now, but I scored a few lamp modules for almost half price.

Z-Wave is also fine, though. Leviton makes great dimmers and switches and lamp modules. The good thing is the stuff will work with whatever controller you want.

greg_mitch wrote:
I like how the ISY devices are now multi protocol.

Yep. Indigo did the same thing. There are just too many things you can't do if you're only Z-Wave or only Insteon.

greg_mitch wrote:
Are the Wink and Smarthings hubs just toys? SmartThings seems pretty enticing.

I wouldn't call them toys. They're just a little more consumer-oriented instead of being more enthusiast/hobbyist/pro-oriented. That's both good and bad. If I had nothing and was just thinking of getting into home automation, I don't know which way I'd go. I do know controllable bulbs make absolutely no sense to me. You're just asking for user confusion. Yeah, tell your wife she can't use the switch on the wall and can only use the app on her phone and see how that goes over. If it's for a lamp, then just use a lamp module. Controllable bulbs: Dumb. With the exception of Hue. But, then that opens a whole can of worms - again - what about the light switch. If you can put it in a floor fixture or something that's powered 24/7, fine. Plus, Hue makes Insteon stuff look affordable.

They're also very young companies. Wink just screwed the pooch last month because they let a security certificate expire on their controllers, so now every single customer has to send their Wink Hub back to the factory to be re-flashed. Nice. The other super-cool features like GPS events and such (like, I'm driving away, and it's this time of day, so turn this lights on or off) are apparently very buggy according to articles I've read. If it won't do things reliably, then the feature is useless.

Don't know what to tell you. I'd suggest just starting small and see what you think.

Cheers,
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

greg_mitch wrote:
From a single room perspective I really liked the Insteon solutions. I wasn't much on their software. They released an OK app for iPhone and Windows 8 but I thought it was severely lacking but simple.

It's a relatively new product, so early in the development lifecycle. No doubt it will get better.

greg_mitch wrote:
I am always walking the line between lots of features and not complicated to program. I stalk deals websites and only ever see deals on z-wave stuff. Zigbee even doesn't show up much. China must be all over z-wave. You never seen Insteon stuff.

I hear ya. The more complicated something is, the less likely I am to use it, which then means I'm not getting the value out of what I spent. This is why I went with a Mac-based solution way back in... I don't know... 2005. I don't think the ISY even existed back then. Originally, Indigo just "programmed" a PLC - a controller. It had a clock, memory for events, and some basic logic. It was a glorified timer. But, then they kept adding more and more to the software, and pretty soon it made sense to just use a computer. So, I bought a $150 Mac mini that runs 15-20w at idle, and it runs my home automation. What's neat is that it can do MUCH more than you'd imagine. It can do things based on emails, it can send emails when certain things happen... I just bought a Smoke Bridge so all my lights will turn on if a smoke detector goes off. That's a real, useful, safety feature. To me, that almost makes the expense of everything worth it all by itself.

As for deals... Yeah, you won't see Insteon on "deals" sites because it's not a mass-market consumer product and the numbers just aren't there relative to the "at large" deal community. You don't see Insteon and you don't see surround processors or Crown amps or Honeywell security panels or...

If you're really interested in Insteon, go to Smarthome and sign up for their mailing list. Like I said, about once a quarter, there will be a really good sale and you can save a bundle if you're ready to go nuts. Oh, and Best Buy has Insteon starter kits on sale sometimes at huge discounts. Nothing right now, but I scored a few lamp modules for almost half price.

Z-Wave is also fine, though. Leviton makes great dimmers and switches and lamp modules. The good thing is the stuff will work with whatever controller you want.

greg_mitch wrote:
I like how the ISY devices are now multi protocol.

Yep. Indigo did the same thing. There are just too many things you can't do if you're only Z-Wave or only Insteon.

greg_mitch wrote:
Are the Wink and Smarthings hubs just toys? SmartThings seems pretty enticing.

I wouldn't call them toys. They're just a little more consumer-oriented instead of being more enthusiast/hobbyist/pro-oriented. That's both good and bad. If I had nothing and was just thinking of getting into home automation, I don't know which way I'd go. I do know controllable bulbs make absolutely no sense to me. You're just asking for user confusion. Yeah, tell your wife she can't use the switch on the wall and can only use the app on her phone and see how that goes over. If it's for a lamp, then just use a lamp module. Controllable bulbs: Dumb. With the exception of Hue. But, then that opens a whole can of worms - again - what about the light switch. If you can put it in a floor fixture or something that's powered 24/7, fine. Plus, Hue makes Insteon stuff look affordable.

They're also very young companies. Wink just screwed the pooch last month because they let a security certificate expire on their controllers, so now every single customer has to send their Wink Hub back to the factory to be re-flashed. Nice. The other super-cool features like GPS events and such (like, I'm driving away, and it's this time of day, so turn this lights on or off) are apparently very buggy according to articles I've read. If it won't do things reliably, then the feature is useless.

Don't know what to tell you. I'd suggest just starting small and see what you think. If you already have a Hub, get a lamp module and a couple of dimmers and play around with it for a month or two. If you don't like it, you can probably sell the whole kit on eBay for almost what you have in it.

Cheers,
SC
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed May 13, 2015 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah! Just got this in my inbox, Greg.

http://links.mkt2056.com/servlet/MailView?ms=NzczODUyNwS2&r=MTA0OTk0OTY4MTAS1&j=NjgxMzgzMTE2S0&mt=1&rt=0

Buy four switches, get 20% off. That's $40 off. Makes your net price for each switch about $43 including shipping. Even Z-Wave doesn't get much cheaper than that.

Also, the warranty on Insteon stuff is two years, and I actually have taken advantage of it. Be sure to check that compared to other solutions.

Cheers,
SC
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greg_mitch




Joined: 03 May 2006
Posts: 5321



PostLink    Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Resurrecting an old thread. Been dabbling with IFTTT and my Ecobee 3 tstat with presence detected by mine and my wife's phones. Been fun.

Just picked up some more goodies.

Amazon Dot with Alexa
Smart Things Hub
x5 Multi-purpose sensors

Alexa is pretty neat and looks like a neat platform to use for automation around the house. Plays music, creates shopping lists, has timers, calculates, share info, reads books, etc. Very robust!

The Smart Things hub was $70 and gives me access to z-wave and ZigBee with a fairly robust app ecosystem. Might pick up a Wink and Hue hub if I see some deals.

I am using the multi-purpose sensors as security at this point for monitoring door open/close. I can pick a time frame and if the doors open I get an alert and text message on my phone. I can also buy a light/horn device to turn it into a make shift security system. It is nice to get a text if our garage doors are still open after 11PM (which happens quite a bit during the summer).

Still trying to work out the best uses cases for me and kill off some unnecessary phone notifications (killing my battery!), but overall it has become incredibly simple to integrate and play for not much money.
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