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What Digital Is Similar To My CRT?
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larryp



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:50 pm    Post subject: What Digital Is Similar To My CRT? Reply with quote


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I have a Sony 1272 crt. Use it with a 100" 4:3 screen.
As it ages I'm not real happy with the brightness level anymore. I've had it for eons now & it's still a great picture, just not as bright as years ago.

I know nothing about bulb projectors--- Wondering what brand/models of bulb projectors would I look at to get the same quality of picture if I ever did replace it? I'm guessing a $1500 budget, something in that area.
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would safely say to be at least as happy as you were with the 1272, to try a very good 720p digital projector, or a 1080p model.

Some of the older model digital PJs are still good for making the switch, a few models below:

Sony VPL-VW40 (same as VW50 only not a pearl white finish)
Sony VPL-VW50 (Sony Pearl)
Sony VPL-VW100 (Be careful this projector can be had at a "good" price if no bulb is installed, the replacement lamp is about $700)
JVC DLA RS1 (Great projector all around)
Pioneer Pro-FPJ1 (Same as JVC DLA RS1 only with the Pioneer "Elite" Logo/enhancements)

Those are the most common 1080p models I've seen people buy and overall be very satisfied with for their quality/price point

720p models:

Yamaha DPX1200, a nice DLP 720p unit
Sony VPL-AW15 (great little 720p LCD projector, was my first HD projector and one I was very satisfied with, also had the nice Lens shift option that many projectors still lack)
InFocus IN126 (Excellent little 720p 3D ready DLP projector, super bright, excellent white balance, and extremely accurate colors, just got one of these going and its quite impressive for a small unit)

There are many many more out there, but this is the list I could get off the top of my head without looking. These as said are very popular models among many people looking for a good digital HD projector in the sub $1000 price range. Most of these projectors vary from $350 to $900 for cost.

The sony projectors many say aren't that bright. I do agree they aren't as bright as some of the newer PJs like the little InFocus IN126 I mentioned, but the picture quality will blow away your Sony 1272Q ALL DAY LONG. There just IS NO comparison sadly.

I have a NEC XG1100 and although its a great EM focused HD capable projector, it is slowly starting to show its age with the newer and better digitals that are coming out, it is one of the reasons I have discontinued use of the XG. I feel that digital has gotten to the point where many are satisfied with its PQ, including myself.

Have a look at some of those models on ebay to get an idea of what they go for and some people may even have screenshots to at least give you an idea on how good panel convergence/color/general image quality is. a screenshot won't do the projector justice, so don't disqualify a projector you're interested in just because the screenshot the seller took is less than expected.

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larryp



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has to be 1080P My 1272 runs 1080I & looks fantastic.

Don't want old & outdated either. The JCV you mention is 7 years old.
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Larry,

A good friend of mine from Chicago took down his 1272 almost four years ago and replaced it with the Pioneer Pro-FPJ1, which is actually a rebranded JVC DLA-RS2. He was thrilled his decision, and still uses the Pioneer/JVC to this day. The reality is that the 7-year-old "old and outdated" JVC is far, far superior to your 1272 in every single metric but one.

Here's the deal: Your 1272, while a great projector for it's time, is pretty "old and outdated" itself. Even within the ranks of CRT projectors, it's pretty low no the image quality totem pole. You may run the 1272 at 1080i, but in reality, you're seeing well under half that resolution, in other words around 960x540. If the 1272 is set up really well, it will look significantly better than standard def, but nowhere near what HD is capable of. The 720p projectors Jeremy mentioned would actually show more resolution than does your 1272. The 1272 is also air-coupled so the ANSI (or in-scene) contrast is terrible. If you've got some wear on the tubes, then brightness, as you mentioned has probably dropped off, and color balance probably isn't very good anymore, either.

You have a couple of options for your $1500 budget. That will easily get you a nice, used JVC. It will also get you a couple of new DLP projectors that are pretty well-regarded. Personally, I'd gravitate toward the used JVC because I like the look a lot better than DLP.

How many hours do you have on the Sony, and how many hours a week would you say you have the Sony on?

SC
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with crabb that if you are going to go with anything in the $1000+ range, a JVC LCoS projector is the way to go. The contrast, color, lack of screen door effect, brightness, etc... its all there. I did get to view one of these when I purchased a NEC CRT projector, and simply put, the JVC is an incredible projector. As crabb said, your 1272 just won't cut it for what HD can do. the 720p units I mentioned would significantly look better, the 1080p units I think are what you are after though.

Personally, if you've been projecting for a long time, and you want to make a serious upgrade, a 1080p JVC is the best way to go at the moment. I trust their reliability as much if not more than Sony, and JVC has been in the high end projection market for a long long time.

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larryp



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok thanks, I hear so much about benq 1070, epson 2030 etc etc I thought one of those might be good. If I buy a bulb unit, I want a new one.
Problem here is nobody has a set up in a store to see a bulb unit in action. I'd have to buy it online. From a store that lets me return it if needed, if they do that?

My projector is my only tv. Use it everday, I'd say in the winter 3-5 hours a day.

The 1272 picture is sharp as can be, no color problems etc. I had a tech set it up when I bought it like 16 years ago. I seldom ever touch it. He stopped over a few times in the last few years and every setting was 95% on. I couldn't be happier with it.

Everything works fine, but as I say it's not quite as bright as it used to be. I can see a difference in standard & HD. Big difference.
If there was a way to "brighten it up" I'd keep it!!
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator


Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

larryp wrote:
ok thanks, I hear so much about benq 1070, epson 2030 etc etc I thought one of those might be good. If I buy a bulb unit, I want a new one.

Those are fine machines, well below your budget. They're fine entry-level machines, but not what I'd want to watch for critical viewing. I'd MUCH rather have a used JVC RS-2 than the Benq or Epson 2030, though. A used RS-2 could be had for well under your budget. Your full budget would get you pretty close to something like an DLA-RS40 (my machine, but one generation older), which is far superior to the BenQ or Epson. For $1500, there is no new projector that I'd rather have than a used RS35 or RS40. You could also look at a Sony VW60. Similar price/quality ballpark to the older JVC's.

larryp wrote:
My projector is my only tv. Use it everday, I'd say in the winter 3-5 hours a day.

OK, that's why I asked. The worst thing about digital is the light source: UHP lamps. If you average four hours a day, seven days a week, then you're going to rack up about 1500 hours a year, which means you'll probably be putting a $150-300 lamp in your machine once every 12-18 months. There are some new lamp sources either already on the market, or coming to market, so hopefully in a year or two, we'll have a few options that aren't lamp-based.

larryp wrote:
The 1272 picture is sharp as can be, no color problems etc. I had a tech set it up when I bought it like 16 years ago. I seldom ever touch it. He stopped over a few times in the last few years and every setting was 95% on. I couldn't be happier with it.

Everything works fine, but as I say it's not quite as bright as it used to be. I can see a difference in standard & HD. Big difference.
If there was a way to "brighten it up" I'd keep it!!


What's your screen material? Your screen isn't that big. Have you tried simply turning up the contrast? Are you disappointed with the brightness even after dark, or is the problem primarily daytime viewing?

If you think the 1272 picture is "sharp as can be", then you'd be blown away by even a 720p digital. When I went from my 1271 to a G70, the two things that really struck me were A) how soft the 1271 was, and B) how bad the contrast was. With the G70, the increase in sharpness, and especially the increase in contrast both made the image much, much more 3D. My JVC gives a similar image, about as 3D, but even sharper.

Projectors are like wine or food in that you don't really know if what you're drinking or eating is bad if you've never tasted anything better. You're in the twin cities. If the lamp issue I mentioned isn't a deal-breaker for you, I'd highly recommend you take an hour or two and drop in to a couple of dealers and take a look - I think you'd be pretty surprised to see what you've been missing. Or, if you're pretty happy withe 1272, you may NOT want to take a look at anything else. Wink

Cheers,
SC
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larryp



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 100" 4x3 Draper Cineperm screen. Could be wrong but I think it's a 1.3 gain. To long ago to remember.
And yes , lol I've adjusted the brightness & contrast. Surprised) Night viewing

I need to find a dealer who has a pj set up for viewing. Something to do in the winter lol
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2650
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy112 wrote:

I have a NEC XG1100 and although its a great EM focused HD capable projector, it is slowly starting to show its age with the newer and better digitals that are coming out, it is one of the reasons I have discontinued use of the XG. I feel that digital has gotten to the point where many are satisfied with its PQ, including myself.


Not that I want to convince anybody, just want to note, that I made a switch from my PG xtra to an XG LC, and while the two projectors are not far away in construction, but I was pretty amazed to see how the XG is better. And I assign this difference to the LC, note the more contrast makes the picture also sharper. Just for the record, the PG xtra was dialed in very tightly (I learned it in the past few years), the XG is only here for 1,5 months, and it still has some trouble with bandwidth, it is basically rolling off with 100MHz pixel clock signals, while the PG xtra was happy even with ~130MHz Pixel clock signals, and even this way the XG looks better!
All I wanted to say is, while the XG1100 is a great machine, but still AC, in these days the contrast part is where the digital projectors are getting very strong, anything AC is out of comparision to a good digital, even the LC isn't really up to the spot, but the difference is far less apparent.

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kal
Forum Administrator


Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15851
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
The reality is that the 7-year-old "old and outdated" JVC is far, far superior to your 1272 in every single metric but one.

Here's the deal: Your 1272, while a great projector for it's time, is pretty "old and outdated" itself. Even within the ranks of CRT projectors, it's pretty low no the image quality totem pole. You may run the 1272 at 1080i, but in reality, you're seeing well under half that resolution, in other words around 960x540. If the 1272 is set up really well, it will look significantly better than standard def, but nowhere near what HD is capable of. The 720p projectors Jeremy mentioned would actually show more resolution than does your 1272. The 1272 is also air-coupled so the ANSI (or in-scene) contrast is terrible. If you've got some wear on the tubes, then brightness, as you mentioned has probably dropped off, and color balance probably isn't very good anymore, either.

You have a couple of options for your $1500 budget. That will easily get you a nice, used JVC. It will also get you a couple of new DLP projectors that are pretty well-regarded. Personally, I'd gravitate toward the used JVC because I like the look a lot better than DLP.

+1 to all of this!

JVC (or even Sony) LCoS all the way if you're coming from CRT.

Kal

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larryp



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read a review on a JVC RS40 on Amazon.--- Holy Smokes, bulb replacement would put you in the poor house!!






3.0 out of 5 stars Beautiful picture, bulbs fail quickly.
This thing has a beautiful picture, seems to work reliably and is easy to setup. After owning it for a little over a year, I can tell you that the bulb life claim is a flat out lie. Its supposed to get 2000 hours. I am now on my third bulb. The first one lasted 526 hours. The second one lasted just over 430. This significantly increases the cost of ownership of this...
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15851
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One good reason to get one of the newer JVCs (either this year's models or last years). I have last year's RS56 and my first bulb has ~1100 hours on it and the light output hasn't dropped significantly. At around 900 hrs I opened up the iris by one notch to compensate. Complete details here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=400706#400706

In low lamp mode it's said that the bulb should last 4000 hours. At 2900 hours the "replace lamp" indicator will come on. For me that's a new bulb every 2.5 to 3 years of use and I'm ok with that. That's assuming that the light output doesn't drop below what I'm happy with (ie: Iris open 100% and still not enough light output - I have 5 notches to go before I get there). I don't want to run the unit in high lamp mode as I find it too noisy.

My screen's fairly close to unit gain (~1.1 or so) and 54x96". A slightly higher gain screen (1.3 to 1.4) would help of course.

Kal

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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

larryp wrote:
Read a review on a JVC RS40 on Amazon.--- Holy Smokes, bulb replacement would put you in the poor house!!






3.0 out of 5 stars Beautiful picture, bulbs fail quickly.
This thing has a beautiful picture, seems to work reliably and is easy to setup. After owning it for a little over a year, I can tell you that the bulb life claim is a flat out lie. Its supposed to get 2000 hours. I am now on my third bulb. The first one lasted 526 hours. The second one lasted just over 430. This significantly increases the cost of ownership of this...


You have to take reviews with a grain of salt when making a purchase. I have bought plenty of things rated well below 5 stars and been perfectly happy with them (so in other words, a 5 star to me).

There are so many reasons why lamps could have been failing in that one guys specific projector (some issue in the projector itself, the line voltage going to the projector, bad batch of lamps, etc...) I wouldn't let one review scare you away from a digital projector.

To be fair, I have never actually burned a bulb out in any digital projector I've ever owned, except for my Sony pearl (and that's because it was a used lamp when I bought the projector). I use my projector for movies, game consoles, and the computer, sometimes I leave it running 10 hours a day.

Needless to say, unless you are addicted to your display for 12 hours a day 7 days a week, you probably wont wear the bulb out for a couple years if you use it 3-5 hours a day. As Kal said, these newer projectors have iris functions which will allow better control of the light source itself, so you can keep a steady light output over the life of the bulb.

I am only wondering why you are so set on getting a new projector and not a nice used JVC? I think spending an extra $600+ on what would be your first digital projector isn't the greatest idea if you aren't sure you'll like it in the first place. As crabb said, a JVC RS2 with a new bulb will most likely blow you away with the picture.

Also, and I'm sure some won't go this route with their own projectors, but you can get cheaper lamps for these projectors than what JVC or Sony charges. Usually you can get the bare genuine bulb for $100 or less, and all you have to do is put some latex gloves on, and install the new bulb into the bulb housing. It's relatively simple if you take your time and don't rush, and saves you a lot more money than buying the bulb straight from JVC.

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larryp



Joined: 24 Jan 2012
Posts: 252
Location: eden prairie mn


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate spending that much money on a used projector that I know nothing about it's history. Could be a lemon someone's trying to get rid of. Probably needs a new bulb to. Who knows if something is going out on it etc To me the risk isn't worth it.
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find that most sellers of used projectors are honest, the last thing a seller of anything usually wants is the customer to come back screaming at them that they bought a lemon. In all fairness, I have never had an issue with a single used projector I've bought, and I have bought dozens of them.

Odds are with most of these JVC projectors, and the Sony LCoS (SXRD) projectors, is that they were well cared for. Most people who buy these projectors take care of them because of their cost. It is extremely rare to see one of these projectors in any condition other than working as it should. Often most are from home theaters that people haven't even used up the first bulb that came with the projector new, and are either upgrading or getting rid of the home theater due to a move.

Personally I would be more upset spending $1500 on a new projector, it getting to me, not working, having to dink around with the company who made it for the warranty BS, etc... A used projector IMHO is a proven reliable projector, its been operating in a real world environment, not some unknown test lab. I would trust a used projector more than a new one.

In the end it's what you feel most comfortable doing. Just make sure you are happy with your decision once you make it, and you will probably be very happy in the long run.

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15851
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeremy112 wrote:
...you can get cheaper lamps for these projectors than what JVC or Sony charges. Usually you can get the bare genuine bulb for $100 or less, and all you have to do is put some latex gloves on, and install the new bulb into the bulb housing. It's relatively simple if you take your time and don't rush, and saves you a lot more money than buying the bulb straight from JVC.

Really? I know there are knockoff bare bulbs, but I didn't know you could get what are known to be an official OEM bare bulbs. I figured there was no way to be 100% sure but I may be wrong. Got any links/references/sources for these bare bulbs for the JVC line?

Kal

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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, there isn't any hidden place. The genuine lamp is simply a Philips or OSRAM. It's when the lamo has NO markings from either of those companies that you should be concerned.

I have never had an issue with a bare Philips or OSRAM lamp I've bought for a housing, never. Keep the finger oils off of it, buy from a reputable seller, (Yes, I do use ebay, but as I said, its the lamp itself you need to look at).

The lamps are just as good as those high priced ones, the whites, life expectancy, etc... Like I said, you need to make sure it actually has Philips or Osram branded markings.

Kal, Your JVC is rather new, I haven't had one come in, so I don't know what the bare bulb and its connector are. If I had some photos of it I might be able to find it. Sadly a lot of the times those lamps are the same ones used in the previous model years projectors, just in a different housing or using a different connection (Epson is a good one for that).

I would say once the projector has been out for a few years, no problem finding genuine lamps on the cheap, unless, like I said above, your projector uses a lamp from a previous model PJ and then it may be available.

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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is an example of a genuine bare OSRAM for a JVC PJ:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/JVC-TS-CL110UAA-Original-Osram-P-VIP-100-120-1-0-P20A-Projector-Bulb-/321198175311?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac8e7344f

Note the markings on it the PVIP-xxx-xxx-Pxxx (and of course the brand, not a blank knock off)

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 15851
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$68? Wow - that's cheap.

I've got some pictures of the RS56 bulb here:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32973

hard to read however.

I already have a spare bulb I've purposed as well, so I'm at least 2+ if not 4-5 years from requiring a new bulb.(hopefully)

Kal

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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2643
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, I believe this is your lamp:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PK-L2210U-Bare-Lamp-Bulb-JVC-DLA-F110-RS30-RS40U-RS45U-RS50-RS55-RS60-RS65-VS-/231109644941?pt=US_Projector_Lamps_Components&hash=item35cf35528d

Its still pricey, which isn't a surprise given the age of the RS55 and RS56. My reason for me thinking this is your bulb is because it goes for the RS55 which is rather similar to your 56. Even though its still up there in price, it beats the $380+ I keep seeing. A couple more years and it will probably be down to that sub $100 price.

I know its a bit more work putting the bare lamp in the housing, but like I said, if you take your time, wear some gloves, it really isn't hard and can save you a lot of money. I started looking for the bare lamps when I got into digital projector repair, as a lot of the projectors I would get would come with the burned out lamp and a good housing. And since the price of the genuine bare lamp is usually less than half if not less than what a "factory in housing" lamp costs, it makes it worth servicing the projectors, especially when I can provide a genuine lamp with the projector when I sell it.

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