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Speaking of laser projectors and phosphor...

 
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:49 pm    Post subject: Speaking of laser projectors and phosphor... Reply with quote


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Somebody brought up phosphor discs in laser projectors in another thread a week or two ago, and I'd never even heard of that illumination method. So, I was a little surprised when I saw this article in Commercial Integrator today…

http://www.commercialintegrator.com/article/dp_stuns_at_ise_2014_with_first_12k_lumen_laser_projector

Quote:
February 06, 2014 | by Julie Jacobson
Digital Projection arguably won ISE 2014 with the new HIGHLite Laser 12k, apparently the first ever laser projector with 12,000 lumens of output.

The WUXGA-resolution unit can go 20,000 hours before needing a phosphor wheel replacement. That compares to about 1,500 hours of lamp life for traditional-based projectors, according to Mark Wadsworth, international marketing manager for DP.

How much does it cost to replace a phosphor wheel?

DP hasn’t firmed up a price yet, but Wadsworth says, “It will cost a whole lot less than 20,000 hours of lamps.”

Besides their long lamp life and associated labor savings, laser projectors beat out lamp-based projectors when it comes to mounting options, says Wadsworth.

Typical video projectors employ fancy thermal systems to cool off hot lamps. For proper heat dissipation, the projectors must be mounted in a specified orientation – typically vertically or horizontally – with maybe 12 degrees of wiggle room.

Since there are no lamps to cool in a laser projector, it can be mounted any which way, as DPI demonstrates at ISE with a series of units fanned out.

The projector is surprisingly affordable, expecting to retail for about $45,000 USD including the lens, Wadsworth stresses, when it ship in Q2 2014.

Although plenty of vendors are showing laser-based projects at ISE, Wadsworth says he knows of no other commercially available projectors that exceed 6,000 lumens.

“You’ll not see anything else like this,” he says.

So what is the downside of the product? Wadsworth thinks before answering: “There is no downside. Why wouldn’t you buy it? It lasts 20,000 hours.”

At ISE, the company announced LANG AG, one of Europe’s largest supplier of professional video equipment, ordered a “fleet” of the new projectors.

Features according to DP:
Perfectly suited to all vertical channels, no feature has been overlooked. Edge Blend is included as standard along with geometric correction functionality. Fully active 3D with up to 144 Hz refresh rate offers flicker-free viewing. Dual HDMI 1.4, DVI and 3G-SDI inputs provides the very latest high speed video delivery. To compliment all of this, HDBaseT connectivity allows for the transmission of uncompressed High Definition Video over a CAT5e/6 LAN cable. To suit every application, the lenses range from 0.77:1 to 6.76:1.


144hz refresh, laser, HD Base T… Sounds pretty cool. I'll be looking forward to seeing how or if this tech trickles down into the under-$10k HT stuff.

SC
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, the contrast looks quite low, so is this not just a DLP solution with another light source.?
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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get the tech on this at all. I did some digging and apparently there are different laser/phosphor approaches. Osram's Phaser light engine uses a disk with red and green phosphors, and a slot to let the (blue) laser through. But this 12k lumen projector is a 3DLP model, so presumably it wants full-time illumination of all 3 panels. So what's the phosphor disk for? Why not just illuminate a fixed phosphor panel?
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:
Interesting, the contrast looks quite low, so is this not just a DLP solution with another light source.?

Yes, but that sort of misses the point. It is "just a DLP solution with another light source", but that light source lasts 20,000 hours before needing replacement. With its contrast ratio and brightness, this projector's primary clearly isn't image quality; it's a commercial and digital signage display. A commercial projector with a traditional lamp can only be mounted in one or two orientations, and needs a lamp replaced every couple of months if it's running 24/7. Imagine the expense of replacing a lamp in a projector hanging 20 feet off the floor in a retail setting every couple of months.

Sure, it has crappy contrast, but then you don't need high contrast in high-ambient-light applications. In fact, in that type of application, high contrast (presumably from low black levels) is actually counterproductive because the lower-brightness portions of the picture are just gone.

So, I'm not suggesting this particular projector has any application for home theater; it doesn't. I'm merely pointing out a technology - one that's actually hitting the market in a real product - which may have some relevance to HT in a few years.

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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://lipainfo.org/wp-content/uploads/LIPA-May2013-Newsletter1.pdf
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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I made it up to the Victoria's Secret store while I was here in Vancouver. Very Happy Curt is right, holeeshit they have a lot of video in there. There were at least 4 or 5 large-to-huge video walls, each containing from about 16 to maybe 50 good-sized (maybe 50"?) flat screens. Do you suppose each of those has a bulb? What would the upkeep/maintenance on those be like? They better hope those are LED-lit screens... A 20,000-hour light engine would make a lot more sense than a bulb in an application like that.
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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
I made it up to the Victoria's Secret store while I was here in Vancouver. Very Happy Curt is right, holeeshit they have a lot of video in there. There were at least 4 or 5 large-to-huge video walls, each containing from about 16 to maybe 50 good-sized (maybe 50"?) flat screens. Do you suppose each of those has a bulb? What would the upkeep/maintenance on those be like? They better hope those are LED-lit screens... A 20,000-hour light engine would make a lot more sense than a bulb in an application like that.


Might have been this Gary.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CCAqv2yRM0

Nashou

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a pretty thorough response to your "why" question Gary, but somehow managed to lose it. I'm not retyping it, but this was the gist:

You know how CRT projector brightness is very much limited to the blue tube output? Well, there was a post a week or two ago with a link to a Hitachi article that indicated blue lasers could activate green phosphor at much higher brightness and lower cost than with a green laser. So, my guess is that perhaps in the DPI projector, the phosphor disc gives them much more brightness capability than lasers alone.

The Victoria's Secret flat screens were probably not projection screens at all; they were probably just LCD or plasma panel sets with small bezels, and arranged into a video wall. Much lower cost of operation than projection, and much better looking in high ambient lighting. Or, they could have been DLP rear-projetion cube modules like Athanasios posted.

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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, they were definitely small-bezel flat-panels, probably LCD. I looked at one fairly close and didn't feel any heat radiating off it so it probably wasn't plasma.

So you're saying they use a red/green/slot wheel with a blue laser, using that as the light source for a simple single-panel DLP? But that can't be what they used in the system in your original post. The specs on that one say it's a 3DLP. So there would be no reason to use a spinning disk.

The system Nash posted looks like a plain old Trinitron system, only with laser excitation instead of an electron gun. You'd have to get some great results to make it worth the hassle of a laser scanning system -- electron beams are easy to steer electronically, but lasers pretty much require spinning mirrors &etc.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:
Interesting, the contrast looks quite low, so is this not just a DLP solution with another light source.?

Yes, but that sort of misses the point. It is "just a DLP solution with another light source", but that light source lasts 20,000 hours before needing replacement. With its contrast ratio and brightness, this projector's primary clearly isn't image quality; it's a commercial and digital signage display. A commercial projector with a traditional lamp can only be mounted in one or two orientations, and needs a lamp replaced every couple of months if it's running 24/7. Imagine the expense of replacing a lamp in a projector hanging 20 feet off the floor in a retail setting every couple of months.

Sure, it has crappy contrast, but then you don't need high contrast in high-ambient-light applications. In fact, in that type of application, high contrast (presumably from low black levels) is actually counterproductive because the lower-brightness portions of the picture are just gone.

So, I'm not suggesting this particular projector has any application for home theater; it doesn't. I'm merely pointing out a technology - one that's actually hitting the market in a real product - which may have some relevance to HT in a few years.

SC
I follow you.. I was just wondering about this comment, someone makes it sound perfect.



So what is the downside of the product? Wadsworth thinks before answering: “There is no downside. Why wouldn’t you buy it? It lasts 20,000 hours.”
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HogPilot



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PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2K:1 is quite standard for high lumen output units like this. Some of DPI's high output units are spec'd at 4K or 5K:1, but that's pretty high for anything pumping out that much light. Unlike cheap digitalis that are rated at 2K-5K:1, this projector will actually obtain that at max light output.

20,000 hours of stable, consistent output for any projector is a revolutionary step. Just like ecrabb, I'm very excited to see this tech trickle down to more affordable home units - notably the JVCs. Having 2x the longevity of CRT tubes with more stability and much higher light output is phenomenal.

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He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

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VideoGrabber



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PostLink    Posted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:
20,000 hours of stable, consistent output for any projector is a revolutionary step.

I'm sure I've gotten >15,000 hours of stable, consistent output from one of my projectors. I've been running it for years. I'd have to check to get the exact numbers.

I expect to get that twice again, with minimal degradation in light output!


~~ I'll give you some time to ponder that...

(music from Jeopardy plays in the background...)


I don't see any BBCode tags for Spoilers, so to hide the rest, I changed the color. Select it to highlight it and make it visible.



[I can say this because HP didn't specify front-projection. Smile The display I'm referring to is a 61" rear-proj Samsung set. Individual R/G/B LED illuminated, 3 DLP. The LED manufacturer rates their lifespan as either 80,000 or 100,000 hours (I forget). Samsung was more conservative, claiming only 50,000 hours.]

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