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The NEW Server 38TB
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3794
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:41 am    Post subject: The NEW Server 38TB Reply with quote


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I'll post more later, but I am wrapping up the build on my newest medial server. This time it's UNRaid using 5x 4TB drives and 6x 3TB drives. All are Western Digital GREEN drives. For now, you gotta admit that this is pretty cool Cool



EDIT:

So this time it's hard to do an exact cost analysis because a lot of the parts were reused from the previous server build, some parts were swapped from my desktop, and other parts were grabbed as open box or B stock from my local Microcenter. I also bought the parts over the past 6+ months as I saw deals come up and I knew I was going to build a new server so I started getting things together. I'll try to give a rough idea.

Reused Parts From First Server: LINK
-AMD Athlon II X2 260 Regor 3.2GHz: Cheapest AMD dual core on Newegg ($60 18 months ago).
-G.SKILL Ripjaws X Series 8GB: Two sticks for 16GB total bought at different times ($38 18 months ago and $15 10 months ago).
-Western Digital Green 3TB HD: Six drives. About $130 each 18 months ago, now around $90 each when on sale.

I switched the power supply from my old server to the power supply in my desktop for the new server. The desktop PS was more powerful and being wasted in the desktop anyway. I don't remember what the desktop power supply cost because I bought it about three and a half years ago. It is an Antec NeoECO 620W 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply.

I sold the old server's mother board on eBay for $40.

New Parts:
-Xigmatek Elysium Case: I actually bought two of these. One was new for around $125 on clearance and the other was a dilapidated floor model that I paid about $50 for. Both from Microcenter. I used the second case to take the hard drive enclosures out of and used the solid metal side from each on the server.
-GIGABYTE GA-990FXA-UD3 V3 motherboard: Got this B stock from Microcenter for $79.
-IBM M1015 SAS RAID Cards: I bought these used on eBay and the seller had them in the wrong section so I got them for $65 each. I cross flashed these cards to LSI9211-IT without option ROM to speed up boot time and allow UNRaid to control the hard drives directly.
-Molex Mini SAS to 4 SATA HD Driver Cables: I bought four of these for $8.55 each.
-WD Green WD40EZRX 4TB Hard drives: Five drives $129 each (I'll explain how I got them so cheap).
-ATI Radeon X300 video card: eBay $7. This card uses very little electricity and has passive cooling.
-UNRaid Pro Server Registration Keys: I got the two license deal for $149.
-SanDisk Cruzer Fit 8GB: I bought two of these for $4.25 each. UNRaid installed on these.

So obviously buying 4TB hard drives can be expensive. I did not want to use Seagate drives because I have had nothing but bad luck with them for the past 15 years; always failing. I really wanted to use the WD GREEN drives because they run the coolest and use the lease electric power by far compared to other drives. The WD drives are also using only four platters and not five like Hitachi and others.

I have had nothing but good luck over the past 5+ years with WD drives. Trouble was that the WD 4TB GREEN drives command quite a price premium... usually. I was waiting for the price point on these drives to come down for months and finally I found a black Friday sale from B&H. They had the WD WEWDBFJK0040 external drives for $129 with free shipping, but with a limit of three per customer. I read a review that the WEWDBFJK0040 was using WD branded GREEN drives while all others had been using Hitachi branded drives. I took a gamble and ordered three of these... then later that night I ordered two more and both orders went through Smile I haven't seen these drives for less than $150 again and when the order came in and I opened up the drive enclosures I was delighted to find the WD GREEN drives I wanted!

The SAS cards were another good score. Cross flashing the IBM M1015 to the LSILSI9211-8i is really awesome. It's a super fast PCIe 4x card that sells for over $300 and I landed two for $65 each. You can find the IBM M1015 card on eBay regularly for around $125. Here are instructions on cross flashing the cards LINK.

A big challenge on this server build was transferring all the data from the old server to the new server. In the end I wound up just doing it across the network using TeraCopy. It took about a week to transfer the 14TB of data with a data verification included.

UNRaid will allow for 23 data drives, one parity drive, and one cache drive. I wanted this server to be able to accommodate all drives as UNRaid also allows for future expansion by letting you just add more data drives. That is why I got two of the SAS cards and also upgraded to a motherboard that has two PCIe 8x slots and two PCIe 4x slots. I have room for the other SAS card to expand eight more drives when I need them.

On the motherboard I am planning to replace the BIOS chips with ones written for the version 1 of the motherboard with a much older BIOS. The older BIOS is not UEFI (it's a regular bios) and has more options that I want to reduce power and optimize some other things. One of these is to allow for "halt on no errors" so that I can remove the video card and run headless. There is no need for a video card to be installed in this rig and it's only wasting power. I may get to the bios over the weekend.

UNRaid is cool with it's flexibility. You only need one parity drive for the 23 data drives, it can be expanded at any time by just dropping in another data drive, and if more than one drive fails you only lose the data on the drives that failed, not the entire array. The down side compared to the ZFS system I was using before is that it does not have any way to check and repair errors on the data discs, it is very slow compared to ZFS with writes at less than 35 MB/sec where my ZFS server could easily saturate the network. It also cost me $150 and Open Solaris is free.

Here are some pics:







More later...

craigr

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Last edited by CIR Engineering on Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:19 am; edited 8 times in total
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HogPilot



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very cool - I've always wanted a large NAS solution like yours that could store my 400 BDs bit-for-bit ! If you don't mind me asking, how much did this "little" project set you back? And what did you use to house the drives/connect them to the network?
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ecrabb wrote:
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Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure.

He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You Nucking Futs !!!!

Very Happy

Nashou

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AnalogRocks
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gee this makes me remember when I had 4 drives doing 72gb in raid and thought that was allot (c.1999) Very Happy
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very ambitious. You might want to take care when using the Green drives in a raid pack as those drives park the heads when idle for any length of time.
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Gee this makes me remember when I had 4 drives doing 72gb in raid and thought that was allot (c.1999) Very Happy

72? That's huge! I remember when my buddy and I bought a couple of Micropolis 4221AV fast/wide SCSI drives to do Director development back in probably '94. I think it was a couple of gigs. I that was huge! Laughing

Then, there were all those the 240MB, 120MB, 105MB, 80MB, 40MB, and 20MB drives that came before those. Wink

SC
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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

km, what's wrong with parking the heads?

SC, these washing-machine-sized beasties were the standard "big storage" when I started at HP in 1979. They packed a whopping 50MB for the paltry sum of $17k. Which is $50k in 2013 dollars, meaning it cost $1M per GB !!

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km987654



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
km, what's wrong with parking the heads?



Probably nothing but depending on the controller (hardware RAID) or Software (software RAID) a drive thats parked may be interpreted as not there and you will get a "Degraded" RAID array. Of course if they are continually accessed the problem may never arise. The green drives are also not the best performing drives which won't help raid performance. From a best practice perspective the Black drives may well be better but of course they cost more.
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HK-Steve



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

craig,
UnRaid is great,
I have been using it for 4 years now, 2x towers, of 40Tb each.

get about 2800 Blu-rays online for my 3x Dune's to play. I also use My Movies for the database and control of Dune's.

My Wife and Kids love it.


Cheers

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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
SC, these washing-machine-sized beasties were the standard "big storage" when I started at HP in 1979. They packed a whopping 50MB for the paltry sum of $17k. Which is $50k in 2013 dollars, meaning it cost $1M per GB !!

Cool. My dad and I do that little thought exercise and joke around about it from time to time, too.

About that same time - I'm guessing 1980 or 1981 - my dad bought his first 5MB Corvus drive to run his accounting software on. I think it was like $5000 for a 5MB drive. A few years later, he upgraded to a newer, smaller, 10MB drives. I googled and found a photo of them.



The big drives on the bottom are the older 5MB drives. They're about the size and weight of a big, heavy industrial video tape recorder. Huge, heavy, and loud. The smaller drive is a 10MB drive. One neat thing the Corvus drives would do is backup to Beta or VHS videotape. It was called "Corvus Mirror", and I think they had the patent on it.

Your cost/MB figure is amazing, but we like working it the other way. It would take 100 of the 10MB Corvus drives just to store a gigabyte, so it would take a staggering 3.8 million of the 10MB Corvus drives - probably far more than they ever manufactured - to make the same amount of storage in Craig's single tower in his house. Those later drives were a couple grand apiece, so Craig's amount of storage would have cost around $8 billion dollars in 1981 or so. Shocked

Sorry to derail your thread, Craig! 38TB is friggin' awesome. I have no idea what I'd do with all that space, as I have no interest in ripping my entire Blu-ray collection because I just don't re-watch the same movies over and over. The few I do, I just grab the disk and put it in. I totally get how awesome it is to just browse a menu and play something - I do that with my music - but, I listen and re-listent to music all the time. The only movies we watch with any regularity at all are the kids's movies. I would like to have few hundred gig worth of demo clips ripped and stored; that would be fun.

Cheers,
SC
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garyfritz



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Your cost/MB figure is amazing, but we like working it the other way. It would take 100 of the 10MB Corvus drives just to store a gigabyte, so it would take a staggering 3.8 million of the 10MB Corvus drives - probably far more than they ever manufactured - to make the same amount of storage in Craig's single tower in his house. Those later drives were a couple grand apiece, so Craig's amount of storage would have cost around $8 billion dollars in 1981 or so. Shocked

With the $1M per MB figure for that HP disk, that's $1B per TB, or $38B for Craig's server. Shocked Shocked But that's in 2013 dollars.

At Christmas my brother showed me his new drive -- 1 TB, cost about $100, smaller than a pack of cigarettes. In "HP drives" that would have cost $1B and taken the space of 20,000 washing machines!
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ecrabb
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bottom line is that we're old, Gary. Wink

SC
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3794
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
Very ambitious. You might want to take care when using the Green drives in a raid pack as those drives park the heads when idle for any length of time.

Yes, you are correct. UNRaid is built on slackware and these drives are set from WD to park their heads after just eight seconds. LINUX writes to the hard drives every 10 seconds so by default the heads get reparked every eight seconds as long as the server is powered on and the drives are spun up... this is not good because WD says the drives are only good for 300,000 park cycles.

The solution to this is modify the BIOS on the WD GREEN hard drives using WDIDLE3 which is an old DOS program from Western Digital. With WDIDLE3 you can change the parking time to anything between 5 seconds and 5 minutes or you can disable head parking all together. I disabled head parking entirely on all these drives. The operating system spins down the drives after 30 minutes and only then will the heads park Wink

craigr

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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HogPilot wrote:
Very cool - I've always wanted a large NAS solution like yours that could store my 400 BDs bit-for-bit ! If you don't mind me asking, how much did this "little" project set you back? And what did you use to house the drives/connect them to the network?

I just updated the first post with some cost info and other. I'll update the first post with more info as I have time.

craigr

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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
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Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

garyfritz wrote:
km, what's wrong with parking the heads?

SC, these washing-machine-sized beasties were the standard "big storage" when I started at HP in 1979. They packed a whopping 50MB for the paltry sum of $17k. Which is $50k in 2013 dollars, meaning it cost $1M per GB !!

There isn't anything wrong with parking the heads unless you combine the WD GREEN drives with LINUX. Most distributions of LINUX do a small write to each hard drive every 10 seconds. The WD GREEN drives park the heads after just 8 seconds. So you wind up with an endless cycle of parking and unparking the heads every 10 seconds the server is powered on.

That's why if you use WD GREEN drives in a NAS you should increase the parking time or disable it. This is also why many people swear that WD GREEN drives fail quickly in a NAS... because they are only rated to park the heads 300,000 times before failure. So if you run the server all the time you can easily burn out your drives in under two years Shocked

My dad worked at Rohm and Haas from the early 60's on and back then they thought they had maximized the density on a platter that was 12' across and held about 50 MB of data Rolling Eyes Silly humans, we always think what we have now is the limit and have a really hard time imagining the future possibilities.

craigr

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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3794
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HK-Steve wrote:
craig,
UnRaid is great,
I have been using it for 4 years now, 2x towers, of 40Tb each.

get about 2800 Blu-rays online for my 3x Dune's to play. I also use My Movies for the database and control of Dune's.

My Wife and Kids love it.


Cheers

Yeah, you're the one who turned me onto UNRaid during my last server build. It is incredibly user friendly compared to FreeBSD I must say Wink

The NAS and DUNE players are what my wife considers the absolute coolest thing we have theater wise. She and the family love being able to call anything up from the server on the DUNE players and just watching it. I use yaDIS for the GUI on mine.

The feature that really stood out when you told me about UNRaid before is the "user shares" where it combines all the assigned hard drives into a large store that the network sees as one drive. This makes the GUI on the DUNE som much easier to setup because the DUNE only needs to make the one SMB connection for the GUI and the movies on the same drive. This is a limitation on the DUNE because it can only make one SMB connection at a time and so I would have to use NFS for the GUI and SMB for the video playback. That would have been fine except that DUNE doesn't support NFS very well and most NAS systems have really weird configuration utilities for NFS... it was a real PITA to get setup. With UNRaid none of that was a factor.

craigr

_________________
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*NEW Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
*NEW Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
*NEW Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3794
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
Your cost/MB figure is amazing, but we like working it the other way. It would take 100 of the 10MB Corvus drives just to store a gigabyte, so it would take a staggering 3.8 million of the 10MB Corvus drives - probably far more than they ever manufactured - to make the same amount of storage in Craig's single tower in his house. Those later drives were a couple grand apiece, so Craig's amount of storage would have cost around $8 billion dollars in 1981 or so. Shocked

Sorry to derail your thread, Craig! 38TB is friggin' awesome. I have no idea what I'd do with all that space, as I have no interest in ripping my entire Blu-ray collection because I just don't re-watch the same movies over and over. The few I do, I just grab the disk and put it in. I totally get how awesome it is to just browse a menu and play something - I do that with my music - but, I listen and re-listent to music all the time. The only movies we watch with any regularity at all are the kids's movies. I would like to have few hundred gig worth of demo clips ripped and stored; that would be fun.

Cheers,
SC

LOL well the thread derailment made me laugh out loud anyway. I have $8 billion worth of storage Mr. Green

It's not just for me. The family uses it constantly and when guest come in from out of town or house sit the user interface is SIMPLE and is easy for anyone to use. When we go out of town friends come over to spend time with the cats and usually go down to the theater and watch a movie. When we were in Puerto Rico last month for two weeks my little sister came over and watched all four season of Downton Abbey while we were out of town. If she can use the theater and DUNE without calling me once during out trip it is easy Smile

craigr

_________________
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2620
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice system there Craig, I have a similar setup for my gaming/main system, only im using 8x 2.5" SAS drives in a 8 bay hot swap backplane, mainly for performance and not storage.

I also am working on a NAS system for my media as I have it spread across 3 or 4 computers and all but one has no room left (over 25TB of media!!) My plan is do do a HP SSA70 70x3.5" Modular disk system connected via an HP P812 RAID card. I will be starting with 3TB drives and probably only doing enough for 32TB (16TB after its been striped for redundancy) to begin with. The goal is to fill it with 70 4TB drives for a whopping total of 280TB! Shocked

I'm just debating on if I connect the storage array to one of my servers or put the P812 card in my HTPC to keep silence down. I intended to use the HTPC for NAS functionality as well anyway so I may just go that route.

For now I will leave you with this:

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CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3794
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany

TV/Projector: Sony G90 RadiancePro 4446 - Moome FullHDv2 3D


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is some serious storage room Shocked

I don't use a HTPC, and one of the reasons is to keep the noise out of my theater room. My equipment rack is in the room so a RAID system would be rather loud to keep in the theater. The NAS is up in my office and than the DUNE players are totally silent in the theater room.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
*NEW Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
*NEW Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
*NEW Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Lumagen, OPPO, & Ethereal Dealer
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Jeremy112



Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 2620
Location: Fond du Lac, WI


PostLink    Posted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CIR Engineering wrote:
That is some serious storage room Shocked

I don't use a HTPC, and one of the reasons is to keep the noise out of my theater room. My equipment rack is in the room so a RAID system would be rather loud to keep in the theater. The NAS is up in my office and than the DUNE players are totally silent in the theater room.

craigr


I agree 100% with you on the noise from enterprise equipment, fortunately I have my equipment rack in a separate room so that isn't a concern, and when the new rack gets constructed I will be working on sound dampening as well to minimize the noise while in the room.

I think you have quite a file server though, how could it not look impressive with all those nicely done red cables and hard drives Very Happy

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