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CHROMAPURE GRAYSCALE & COLOR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES
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TroubleShooter



Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Thanks for your insights !

Do you think it's worth a shot trying to recalibrate it with an i1 pro ?

About the projector, as it doen't have RGB HighEnd/LowEnd functions and only has 6 levels of Degamma and 3 of Color Temperature and individual red-green-blue ajustement possibility, worth trying calibration ?

I would say yes, but I'm waiting a professional's comment on that Smile


Many many thanks.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TroubleShooter wrote:
Thanks for your insights !

Do you think it's worth a shot trying to recalibrate it with an i1 pro ?

An i1pro is a spectroradiometer and not a colorimeter, so it does not drift in the same way, meaning that they remain accurate over time. So yes, it's worth it. However, given the nature of the technology, they are slow to read at low light levels so you may find it very slow to use when doing low level light readings as is typically done on a 2-point calibration.
For more info see our article "WHICH METER IS RIGHT FOR ME?" here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11436

Quote:
About the projector, as it doen't have RGB HighEnd/LowEnd functions and only has 6 levels of Degamma and 3 of Color Temperature and individual red-green-blue ajustement possibility, worth trying calibration ?

Yes.

Though that's a bit of a catch-22 question: Until you measure and see how far off it is and see how close you can get it, you really won't know how much improvement you can make.

Good luck!

Kal

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TroubleShooter



Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Again many thanks !

I've read the "WHICH METER IS RIGHT FOR ME?" article and I understand now the differences and the point of having a colorimeter + a spectroradiometer.

I will therefore go for recalibration of the 2nd handed display2, unfortunately no i1 pro for rent around me but I can get a ColorMunki Display for few bucks a day and for what I've read, it can also do the job, right ?


My very last 2 questions:
Are the colorimeter only getting inacurate over time or are they also hardware-wise losing abilities ?
I've read also that after some time it could be impossible to recalbrate them. information or speculation ?

Bonus question:
Will you advice to get a decent projector screen (or pvc projection tissu) before calibration or could I just try getting the best out of my white wall ?


I'll keep you updated !


Thank you for everything.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TroubleShooter wrote:
Again many thanks !

I've read the "WHICH METER IS RIGHT FOR ME?" article and I understand now the differences and the point of having a colorimeter + a spectroradiometer.

I will therefore go for recalibration of the 2nd handed display2, unfortunately no i1 pro for rent around me but I can get a ColorMunki Display for few bucks a day and for what I've read, it can also do the job, right ?

The ColorMunki Display is a low cost colorimeter, just like the Display 2. Normally you don't use one colorimeter to calibrate another unless the first one is known to be accurate or was recently calibrated as all colorimeters drift.

Quote:
Are the colorimeter only getting inacurate over time or are they also hardware-wise losing abilities ?
I've read also that after some time it could be impossible to recalbrate them. information or speculation ?

They drift and become less accurate. If they drift far enough they may get to the point that the offsets required in software to make them correct are large enough that they start to introduce other issues.

Quote:
Bonus question:
Will you advice to get a decent projector screen (or pvc projection tissu) before calibration or could I just try getting the best out of my white wall ?

Up to you. You may have issues getting proper calibration when projecting on a white wall. If you change your screen you should recalibrate.

Kal

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TroubleShooter



Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 4



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind, I thought that the ColorMunki Display was a spectroradiometer.

After a bit of research, I may have found a way to rent an i1 pro finally !

My very very very last question will be : (I hope :p)
A new ColorMunki Smile or a used i1 Display 2, that's my situation of now as I could get one or another for around 65 euros and I've been reading that the ColorMunki Smile was very near of the i1 Display 2, is that right ?

I'm also reading a lot about white walls, so definitely gonna get a projection screen that lower the light reverberation, might go for a grey one 0.8 !

I you have any question regarding classical music I'm your man, that's the only thing I could think of to repay the time you spent answering me Wink
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TroubleShooter wrote:
I've been reading that the ColorMunki Smile was very near of the i1 Display 2, is that right ?

I'm afraid I've never used the ColorMunki Smile.

Right now the cheapest, non-discontinued meter we recommend is the X-rite EyeOne Display 3 (i1 Display Pro):

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&ajr=sabc&camp=1789&creative=390957&field-keywords=i1display%20pro&linkCode=ur2&rh=i&sprefix=i1dis%2Caps&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&url=search-alias%3Daps&linkId=MXE3NPHWZJ6FH6OY

http://www.amazon.ca/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&camp=15121&creative=390961&field-keywords=i1display%20pro&linkCode=ur2&tag=curtpalme-20&url=search-alias%3Daps

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&field-keywords=i1display%20pro&linkCode=ur2&tag=curpalcrtproa-21&url=search-alias%3Daps

Quote:
I you have any question regarding classical music I'm your man, that's the only thing I could think of to repay the time you spent answering me Wink


We've got lots of music lovers here, including audiophiles and vinyl aficionados - feel free to post here / start discussions!:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=10

Cheers,

Kal

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mlapd



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Oahu, HI


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey guys,
Picked up a Panasonic 65AX800U yesterday for one of my rooms. For the price it couldn't pass it up. Had a question for you. For my Display3Pro II when I am selecting my mode should I select lcd generic or are any of the Samsung, Sony, LG LED modes close?

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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never used that model so I don't know if it's comparable to any of the others. I'd probably start with the generic mode.

Kal

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DeepIrex



Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:01 am    Post subject: H6400 Calibrations Setting Reply with quote

Arcsaber, seems like you are really happy with how the white point calibration turned out. I know various factors attribute the outcome, but you mind sharing the complete settings of your TV, please? I have the same Samsung 55H6400 and have really been struggling to get it display the best picture!
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 3:07 am    Post subject: Re: H6400 Calibrations Setting Reply with quote

DeepIrex wrote:
Arcsaber, seems like you are really happy with how the white point calibration turned out. I know various factors attribute the outcome, but you mind sharing the complete settings of your TV, please? I have the same Samsung 55H6400 and have really been struggling to get it display the best picture!


Keep in mind that what you're asking is a bit of a catch-22. One person's settings are meaningless to use on a different set (even if the exact same make/model). Components age/drift and have tolerances to begin with that vary. If they didn't, calibration wouldn't be required. You can't take one person's settings and use them on your own set. That would be illogical.

Kal

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DeepIrex



Joined: 31 Jul 2015
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Completely in sync with you on this Kal. I tried a few tweaks and yet I have been unable to work out the 2-Point and 10-Point white balance. There is too much grain on the HD sources that I watch ( downloaded MKVs(8,10GB), Blu-Rays and PS3 games etc.). If someone could guide on how to calibrate 2 and 10-point white balance, that could serve as a starting point without a meter! Smile
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DeepIrex wrote:
Completely in sync with you on this Kal. I tried a few tweaks and yet I have been unable to work out the 2-Point and 10-Point white balance. There is too much grain on the HD sources that I watch ( downloaded MKVs(8,10GB), Blu-Rays and PS3 games etc.).

Grain in sources doesn't affect calibration since you need to use a known set of test patterns to calibrate and the test patterns will not have any grain in them.

See here for such a calibration disc: http://www.curtpalme.com/ChromaPure_Calibration_Disc.shtm
Here's another one: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

Quote:
If someone could guide on how to calibrate 2 and 10-point white balance, that could serve as a starting point without a meter! Smile

Calibrate without a meter is difficult / not really possible given how the human eye is very poor at seeing subtle differences in colours. You can certainly try it however. It would be no different than calibrating with a meter. With a meter you're trying to get the various levels to be devoid of any colour (only shades of grey) so you would try to do the same but only by eye.

Kal

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signmastr



Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 7:32 pm    Post subject: Printing Reply with quote

Why can't I print this? New Member?
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Printing Reply with quote

signmastr wrote:
Why can't I print this? New Member?

Printing is limited to Club Members. More details on what's involved here:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2307

Cheers,

Kal

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Ahlgren4200



Joined: 17 Aug 2015
Posts: 1
Location: Denmark


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: a few questions Reply with quote

first of all i want to thank you for this outstanding guide ! this is truly amazing !!

I have just a few questions i hope you will take the time to answer :

1. Meter placement on a LCD display ?

Should i just position the meter somewhere in the middle of the display ?

2. Grayscale calibration

When i try to do a pre calibration measurement on the grayscale, i start with the 0% black and click "Measure"

But i get no reading and it does not advance to the 10% black ?? i am using the built in pattern generation function in chromapure.

When i click the 0% black the display kinda turns off ??

can u tell me what i am doing wrong ?

Sorry for my bad English - i am from Denmark Smile

thank you again for an oustanding service !
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: a few questions Reply with quote

Ahlgren4200 wrote:
1. Meter placement on a LCD display ?
Should i just position the meter somewhere in the middle of the display ?

Yes. Assuming you're using a Display 3 / Display 3 PRO, place it against the screen in front of the pattern/window.

Quote:
2. Grayscale calibration

When i try to do a pre calibration measurement on the grayscale, i start with the 0% black and click "Measure"

But i get no reading and it does not advance to the 10% black ?? i am using the built in pattern generation function in chromapure.

When i click the 0% black the display kinda turns off ??

can u tell me what i am doing wrong ?

I'm not sure. Probably best that you email ChromaPure support about this as they would be best positioned to assist and know what you're using based on your order. They're at support@chromapure.com

I erased your other thread that was a repetition of this post. No need to post more than once.

Kal

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steve23094



Joined: 15 Oct 2014
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

Chromapure v3 has very recently been released. To be honest I'm a total noob with calibration and wouldn't be able to get anywhere without your very useful guide, it was what swayed my purchase decision. I haven't used v3 but the blurb implies the interface has changed quite a bit (for the better apparently).

Would it be your intention at some point in the future to update your guide to take v3 into account? I don't think I could cope without it, I probably won't upgrade until somebody is there to hold my hand.

Thanks.
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the intent is to eventually update it. The base functionality remains the same however so anyone using the guide should feel at home in ChromaPure 3 as well.

Kal

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Goozoo



Joined: 15 Feb 2016
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject: Taking a temperature measurement Reply with quote

Great insight into a very useful program. Maybe his has been covered elsewhere, but was just wondering if the software has a way to take a measurement of the temperature reading from the screen. What I mean is that if I set the output to 6500K on my projector, is there a way to actually verify what it really is like you can with Calman?
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Taking a temperature measurement Reply with quote

Goozoo wrote:
Great insight into a very useful program. Maybe his has been covered elsewhere, but was just wondering if the software has a way to take a measurement of the temperature reading from the screen. What I mean is that if I set the output to 6500K on my projector, is there a way to actually verify what it really is like you can with Calman?

Yes and no.

Temperature readings are absolutely useless as there are many ways to get to 6500K. A reading of 6500K doesn't mean that you're calibrated properly. You need to go a level deeper.

I'm not actually sure if ChromaPure shows this sort of graph. If it doesn't that ok, as it's useless.

HCFR does however, here's an example from our previous greyscale guide:



Some magazines love to show this graph as it's easy for people to follow. They tell us that if the graph is perfectly flat with values of 6500K from black to white that the greyscale is therefore perfect. Not true.

What you need to understand is that many points on the CIE diagram actually add up to a colour temperature of 6500K, but only one is correct: The D65 point where x=0.313 and y=0.329. You can have a display that measures 6500K across the board but still look incorrect. An RGB Levels graph and a CIE graph give us a far more accurate picture of what's actually going on.

So the less you concern yourself with colour temperature graph the better. Just ignore it, it's truly useless.

Stick with what ChromaPure does show you: The graphs (or x, y, Y numbers) you need to get a truly flat greyscale.

Good luck!

Kal

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