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CHROMAPURE GRAYSCALE & COLOR CALIBRATION FOR DUMMIES
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2014 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Just to clarify Reply with quote


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Hagar wrote:
So when were talking low gamma or high gamma, (gads this is going to seem stupid) Sad
Were saying going up (higher) 2.3 2.4 2.4 is a lower darker gamma, and going down (lower) 2.2 2.1 2.0 is a higher brighter gamma?

A lower gamma number is a brighter picture.
A higher gamma number is a less bright picture.

Example:



Take a look at the graphs in the guide for some other examples.

Kal

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Samhain



Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In step 2.2.2.10, do we change Measurement Mode to 100%? The picture shows 80%, but you ask us to display and measure the 100% white test pattern.

Also regarding Plasma panels, I have heard that if there is a "back light" control, this should always be maxed out unlike LCD panels. Is this true? If so, then I would only adjust contrast to get to 120cd/m2?

Thanks for the awesome guide!!
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Samhain wrote:
In step 2.2.2.10, do we change Measurement Mode to 100%? The picture shows 80%, but you ask us to display and measure the 100% white test pattern.

It does not matter which radio button you choose since we're only measuring R/B/G levels. The picture shows what you see when follow the instructions:

Quote:
Click the White Balance button on the navigation bar. The White Balance module will appear:


The instructions will tell you what to change. In this case we say to "Display the 100% white test pattern" and then "Check Continuous mode, and then click Measure". There is no need to choose any of the specific radio buttons.

[quote]Also regarding Plasma panels, I have heard that if there is a "back light" control, this should always be maxed out unlike LCD panels. Is this true? If so, then I would only adjust contrast to get to 120cd/m2?

There's no specific hard and fast rule with any display controls. The instructions do say right after 2.2.2.8:

Quote:
TIP: If you can adjust light out by using a control other than the contrast, then it is always better to use that. For example, many front projectors have a manual iris. LCD displays have a backlight control. Both are particularly useful for adjusting the display's overall light output.


Every display will be different. Use the controls to achieve the best results possible.

Kal

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Streetbloke



Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 1
Location: England


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there,

With the Display Pro 3 and selecting one's Mode of Operation when setting up the meter - 'Samsung LED', etc... - what would be the best option to use if your make isn't listed? I have a Panasonic LED and that isn't presented as an alternative. Would I just have to select 'Generic LCD'?

Cheers
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2014 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Streetbloke wrote:
With the Display Pro 3 and selecting one's Mode of Operation when setting up the meter - 'Samsung LED', etc... - what would be the best option to use if your make isn't listed? I have a Panasonic LED and that isn't presented as an alternative. Would I just have to select 'Generic LCD'?

Sure. Sounds reasonable.

Kal

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nhcrew6



Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 3
Location: Michigan

TV/Projector: Epson 8700UB, Panasonic 60U54


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to this website and Chromapure I have fallen in love again with my 8700UB all over again. Your worklflow, my id3 and chromapure software has allowed me to calibrate my projector and 3 plasma TV's in my house. I have stunning video no matter what display I chose to watch.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent! Glad to hear. Enjoy your newly calibrated 8700UB!

Kal

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neodee



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 1



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

thanks for this great guide.

Which Version of ChromaPure is at least required for this calibration guide?

Do I need the Standard Version because of Gamma Calibration, described in the Guide?

Thanks for any info.

Regards
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Neodee,

The guide covers all of the features found in ChromaPure Standard. If you have ChromaPure Lite, then you'd simply skip the sections that you do not have access to in the software (mostly Gamma and Advanced Color Management).

Kal

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motuxt



Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Curt,

Wow, what an incredible guide you've written! I hope you don't mind but I have a couple of questions.

Is calibration of a display also dependent on the device that is outputting the video to it? I have a Blu Ray Player, Mac Mini running Plex, Apple TV, etc... if I calibrate using test patterns on the Mac Mini, or the Blu Player Player, will the display be calibrated correctly for all devices? Does the video card or video output circuitry of the device not affect the output? Or if I have the HD 709-A Display Profile selected on my Mac am I good?

Your first guide worked with HCFR Colormeter but this one is specifically for ChromaPure. What limitations are there to using HCFR?

Thanks!

Alex
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Curt Palme
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 22708
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to take the credit, but I didn't write this, nor have I read it.. yet.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
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Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

motuxt wrote:
Is calibration of a display also dependent on the device that is outputting the video to it? I have a Blu Ray Player, Mac Mini running Plex, Apple TV, etc... if I calibrate using test patterns on the Mac Mini, or the Blu Player Player, will the display be calibrated correctly for all devices? Does the video card or video output circuitry of the device not affect the output? Or if I have the HD 709-A Display Profile selected on my Mac am I good?

The source can have an affect. That said, most sources do not have settings that can change and for those that do, I would recommend you standardize on what settings you use so that you can use the same calibration on the display.

You'll then likely find that the sources are very similar, especially your Blu-ray and HDDVD player as they'd use Rec.709 (HD) colour space. DVD uses Rec.601 (SD) but frankly SD looks so poor compared to HD I would simply calibrate to Rec.709 (HD) and leave it at that. I only calibrate for my one main source that looks the best: My PS3 for playing Blu-rays. The same calibration is used for playing DVDs and for watching TV though my satellite HD box. Some sources (like a satellite or cable box or OTA) you can't calibrate for anyway as you have no way of showing test patterns.

While it's a personal preference, I would recommend you simply calibrate for your BEST source (likely Blu-ray) and use the same settings for the other sources. They will likely be *very* close and you would probably not notice the difference. This is what I do. Switching between calibrations based on the source is not very convenient/easy to do.

Quote:
Your first guide worked with HCFR Colormeter but this one is specifically for ChromaPure. What limitations are there to using HCFR?

See the first section of the guide titled "How is this guide different from the previous calibration guide?". It explains the differences/limitations.

Kal

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motuxt



Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Kal,

Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for missing that intro and calling you Curt!

Best,

Alex
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steve23094



Joined: 15 Oct 2014
Posts: 2



PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello,

I have recently purchased an i1 Display Pro and Chromapure software and Chromapure test pattern blu-ray. I have a Panasonic TXP-42ST50B plasma television.

When performing my first calibration I set up the i1 on a tripod, approx 12 inches away from the screen. I have a bias back lighting setup which switches on when the plasma is on, should I disable this for calibration? I also have some light pollution coming in from outside, a soft orange glow. I am concerned this may be influencing results but cannot block it out, should I rest my i1 directly against my plasma or will the heat cause more problems then the light pollution?

2.2.2.2

Even at maximum contrast all bars are easily visible, is this ok?

2.2.2.7

At maximum contrast Y value is 105, is this ok? What is the reference level of output for a plasma?

2.4.4

When taking continuous measurements my RGB and therefore dE levels jump around like crazy, particularly the red. I have found it impossible to get a steady reading. What's wrong?

2.4.6

Am I supposed to change the Measurement Mode in the Chromapure software to 20% when on the 20% White on the test pattern blu-ray or leave it at 80%? This is not made clear in the instructions.

2.5.1

The Chromapure software defaults to a Target Gamma of 1.9. Is this because I selected a plasma television in 1.2.5 or should I manually change it to 2.22?

Overall my calibration report looks like something went badly wrong.

Thank you in advance for your help.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 14320
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

steve23094 wrote:
When performing my first calibration I set up the i1 on a tripod, approx 12 inches away from the screen. I have a bias back lighting setup which switches on when the plasma is on, should I disable this for calibration?

Yes. Disable all sources except for the display.

Quote:
I also have some light pollution coming in from outside, a soft orange glow. I am concerned this may be influencing results but cannot block it out, should I rest my i1 directly against my plasma or will the heat cause more problems then the light pollution?

That question can't be answered as we don't know how much light pollution you have. You can try against the display if you like. Leave it for 30+ mins to warm up. IT would be best to block out the light during testing however. Even something temporary works.

Quote:
2.2.2.2

Even at maximum contrast all bars are easily visible, is this ok?

Yes. Your display is not clipping which is good.

Quote:
2.2.2.7

At maximum contrast Y value is 105, is this ok? What is the reference level of output for a plasma?

For flat panel monitors (which a plasma is), reference is 120 cd/m2 (or 35 ft-L). If you can't get that much light output, then there's nothing you can do. Amount of light output can sometimes be a personal preference too, depends on ambient light, etc. We recommend the reference amounts as a starting point.

Quote:
2.4.4

When taking continuous measurements my RGB and therefore dE levels jump around like crazy, particularly the red. I have found it impossible to get a steady reading. What's wrong?

Your display may be unstable, you may have light pollution introduced. There's a setting in the ChromaPure config file you can use to smooth out readings. It'll basically take multiple readings and give the results as an average.

To improve repeatability somewhat close the software and then open the configuration file in a text editor. (The file is in the
C:\ProgramData\Display Calibrations LLC\ChromaPure\2 folder.) Change the D3IntegrationTime and the D3LcdTargetTime from 0.4 to 0.5.


Quote:
2.4.6

Am I supposed to change the Measurement Mode in the Chromapure software to 20% when on the 20% White on the test pattern blu-ray or leave it at 80%? This is not made clear in the instructions.

You need to go back and forth between the 20% and 80% test patterns on the disc. It doesn't matter what radio button you choose in ChromaPure for this as we're only trying to balance it out. It's only later when we want the software to graph the readings from 0 to 100 that we need to tell the software what we're actually showing it so that it knows how to graph. You can choose the right radio button if you like however (no harm).


Quote:
2.5.1

The Chromapure software defaults to a Target Gamma of 1.9. Is this because I selected a plasma television in 1.2.5 or should I manually change it to 2.22?

Target gamma is an average of 2.22. Changing it in the software only changes where the line displays on the graph as a reference. It won't change what your display does. Feel free to change it in the software if you like.

Kal

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16152
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

your dE for Chromaticity went way up compared to before calibration. You need to redo it.

you must have done something wrong.

Athanasios

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turbojr74



Joined: 26 Nov 2014
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a couple of quick questions for all - mostly just verification on the "How to.." created here.

1) I notice that you take measurements of 0% measurement mode in pre-cal > my guess is that this is a measurement of ambient light in the room correct?
As in a controlled light room (my case a projector) I will have no light as it will be completely dark and no data will appear. So therefore, people in this situation should start on 10% yes?
If you look at the help instructions, it has you start at 10% vs the 0% - so there is a slight contradiction here I would like to clear up.

2) 2.2.2.13 > After you have adjusted the RGB highend, it is noted that light output is now lower (for me on the projector Y:from 48 to 41). So as said in the instructions that it is better to raise the light output (in my case iris) to maintain proper light output of 48 as long as the dE doesn't go above 4.0. Which I can as it will hit about dE 1.7 to maintain light output of 48.

Do you need to go back and re-calibrate brightness and contrast if you make changes to raise the light output back to proper levels? If you chose not to raise it (as you said it's a matter of personal choice), again should you go back to brightness and contrast to make changes?

Thank you
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kal
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TV/Projector: JVC DLA-RS56


PostLink    Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turbojr74 wrote:
1) I notice that you take measurements of 0% measurement mode in pre-cal > my guess is that this is a measurement of ambient light in the room correct?
As in a controlled light room (my case a projector) I will have no light as it will be completely dark and no data will appear. So therefore, people in this situation should start on 10% yes?
If you look at the help instructions, it has you start at 10% vs the 0% - so there is a slight contradiction here I would like to clear up.

Sorry, but what step or exact text are you referring to? Can you quote it?

Quote:
2) 2.2.2.13 > After you have adjusted the RGB highend, it is noted that light output is now lower (for me on the projector Y:from 48 to 41). So as said in the instructions that it is better to raise the light output (in my case iris) to maintain proper light output of 48 as long as the dE doesn't go above 4.0. Which I can as it will hit about dE 1.7 to maintain light output of 48.

Do you need to go back and re-calibrate brightness and contrast if you make changes to raise the light output back to proper levels? If you chose not to raise it (as you said it's a matter of personal choice), again should you go back to brightness and contrast to make changes?

You shouldn't have to but you can always re-check to confirm if you like.

Kal

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turbojr74



Joined: 26 Nov 2014
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
turbojr74 wrote:
1) I notice that you take measurements of 0% measurement mode in pre-cal > my guess is that this is a measurement of ambient light in the room correct?
As in a controlled light room (my case a projector) I will have no light as it will be completely dark and no data will appear. So therefore, people in this situation should start on 10% yes?
If you look at the help instructions, it has you start at 10% vs the 0% - so there is a slight contradiction here I would like to clear up.

Sorry, but what step or exact text are you referring to? Can you quote it?


Opps - missed that one Kal my apologies - it is in section 1.3.2 > even the picture in 1.3.3 shows data under the 0% area.

The PDF manual/help file has you start any of the grayscale at 10% (starting on page 37)

kal wrote:
turbojr74 wrote:
2) 2.2.2.13 > After you have adjusted the RGB highend, it is noted that light output is now lower (for me on the projector Y:from 48 to 41). So as said in the instructions that it is better to raise the light output (in my case iris) to maintain proper light output of 48 as long as the dE doesn't go above 4.0. Which I can as it will hit about dE 1.7 to maintain light output of 48.

Do you need to go back and re-calibrate brightness and contrast if you make changes to raise the light output back to proper levels? If you chose not to raise it (as you said it's a matter of personal choice), again should you go back to brightness and contrast to make changes?

You shouldn't have to but you can always re-check to confirm if you like.

Kal


I have a few follow up questions if you are willing...I would love to understand more as I have had an experience that may not be very true to how things should operate. This could be due to my JVC RS45U, but am unsure.

a)To describe my experience I have followed this online instruction, however when I was uncertain I went to the PDF manual/help file and saw some contradictions on approach. Is there a reason why this is? Say like the order of doing measurements/corrections.

For instance:
The online instructions goes with setting initial white balance using the 100% white test pattern (2.2.2.11), sharpness, then grayscale, then gamma, then color.

The PDF manual/help misses the initial white balance setting part and goes into setting grayscale through the white balance tool (page 44). Then goes into setting color, then gamma.

b) When adjusting grayscale (the JVC has a 12-point system in the gamma settings - took me forever to figure that out) on lower stimulus settings (say around 10%-40%) they seem to jump around a bit (specifically in red) and it is a little harder to correct. Is this normal?
This jumping around (I've seen going from 94-105% in red) causes dE to bounce everywhere as well (going from 0.5 to 3.4). So when I take a Post-grayscale look, it all depends on when I click that MEASURE whether it's going to be the 0.5 or the 3.4 dE. In the end I can keep taking measurements of the 10% until it shows RGB very close to each other with a low dE. Is this the way of things, or just my projector having an issue with all the jumping at lower intervals of grayscale?

c) When doing gamma settings the online instructions mentioned you want to go with a 2.3 from the 40%-90% and then 2.1 near 10%.
PDF manual/help mentions aiming for a 2.22 across the board, but experiment (pg 13) and another spot that states ideal range would be from a 2.2.-2.35(pg 56).
Do you have the values of gamma go upwards of 2.3 because of the inconsistency and jumping around of range at the higher/brighter levels? I noticed down lower in levels it is easier to adjust as the variance isn't jumping like a jack russel terrier.

d)Last here is color adjustment. The JVC doesn't have a CMS, so I must do the 2.6.1 color decoding adjustment. The initial reading wasn't horrible, with R>6.9 / G>-9.7 / B>-4.8 / M>7.9 / Y>0.9 / C>19.2
Online instructions have you adjust red and magenta through the color and tint functions (2.6.1.8).
The PDF manual/help has you do the same but to red and cyan colors instead (pg 46).

Which way is more correct here? I tried both ways but my blue and green go way negative no matter which I use (after doing either I reset and do the measurements once more to see if they had stayed consistent). Not to mention I'm missing the ability to adjust blue and green as both the online instructions and PDF manual say to do once you finish with red.

Sorry for the horribly long post - maybe I'm the only one that has ever experienced these types of issues or turmoil.

Thank you for your help Kal and any answers you can provide. I'm beginning to go insane with these struggles...hours and hours of learning and reading and learning and failure have killed my inner child Sad
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kal
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PostLink    Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turbojr74 wrote:
Opps - missed that one Kal my apologies - it is in section 1.3.2 > even the picture in 1.3.3 shows data under the 0% area.

Generally speaking readings at 0% stimulus are useless, given the low light output that most displays have at that level. You can skip 0% readings if you like, we only do it for sake of completeness. I would not use the results of the 0% reading as the basis for adjustments.

Quote:
The online instructions goes with setting initial white balance using the 100% white test pattern (2.2.2.11), sharpness, then grayscale, then gamma, then color.

The PDF manual/help misses the initial white balance setting part and goes into setting grayscale through the white balance tool (page 44). Then goes into setting color, then gamma.

I'm going to point Tom of ChromaPure here regarding questions about differences like this. He may be able to offer some additional input as to why his original PDF manual/help is written a certain way.

Quote:
b)[/b] When adjusting grayscale (the JVC has a 12-point system in the gamma settings - took me forever to figure that out) on lower stimulus settings (say around 10%-40%) they seem to jump around a bit (specifically in red) and it is a little harder to correct. Is this normal?

This jumping around (I've seen going from 94-105% in red) causes dE to bounce everywhere as well (going from 0.5 to 3.4). So when I take a Post-grayscale look, it all depends on when I click that MEASURE whether it's going to be the 0.5 or the 3.4 dE. In the end I can keep taking measurements of the 10% until it shows RGB very close to each other with a low dE. Is this the way of things, or just my projector having an issue with all the jumping at lower intervals of grayscale?

I don't own that model projector, but my JVC RS56 is stable from what I remember. Readings at lower stim can be problematic if the probe's not getting enough light. There's a smoothing option that exists I believe. I would suggest emailing ChromaPure support about it - here's what I did back when I wrote this guide after talking to Tom to improve repeatability somewhat:

1. Close ChromaPure and then open the configuration file in a text editor. The file is in the C:\ProgramData\Display Calibrations LLC\ChromaPure\2 folder.
2. Change the D3IntegrationTime and the D3LcdTargetTime from 0.4 to 0.5.

Not sure if it's still around in the latest version. (Make sure you're running the latest ChromaPure as well).


Quote:
c) When doing gamma settings the online instructions mentioned you want to go with a 2.3 from the 40%-90% and then 2.1 near 10%.
PDF manual/help mentions aiming for a 2.22 across the board, but experiment (pg 13) and another spot that states ideal range would be from a 2.2.-2.35(pg 56).

The online instructions mention 2.3 to 2.1 but also mention 2.22 if you don't have the means to adjust multiple spots (see step 2.5).

Quote:
Do you have the values of gamma go upwards of 2.3 because of the inconsistency and jumping around of range at the higher/brighter levels?

No. All recommendations are based on what produces the best image quality. You may prefer something slightly different however.

Quote:
d)Last here is color adjustment. The JVC doesn't have a CMS, so I must do the 2.6.1 color decoding adjustment. The initial reading wasn't horrible, with R>6.9 / G>-9.7 / B>-4.8 / M>7.9 / Y>0.9 / C>19.2
Online instructions have you adjust red and magenta through the color and tint functions (2.6.1.8).
The PDF manual/help has you do the same but to red and cyan colors instead (pg 46).

Which way is more correct here? I tried both ways but my blue and green go way negative no matter which I use (after doing either I reset and do the measurements once more to see if they had stayed consistent). Not to mention I'm missing the ability to adjust blue and green as both the online instructions and PDF manual say to do once you finish with red.

I'll see if Tom has any specific recommendations here about the differences. Without a CMS you're going to be extremely limited as to what you can adjust and the adjustments all play against each other. Without a CMS, I would not spent too much time trying to get colours right - you're going to pull your hair out.

Kal

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