Return to the CurtPalme.com main site CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum
A forum with a sense of fun and community for Home Theater enthusiasts!
Products for Sale ] [ FAQ: Hooking it all up ] [ CRT Primer/FAQ ] [ Best/Worst CRT Projectors List ] [ Setup Tips & Manuals ] [ Advanced Procedures ] [ Newsletters ]

 
Forum FAQForum FAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist  Photo AlbumsPhoto Albums  RegisterRegister 
 MembershipClub Membership   ProfileProfile   Private MessagesPrivate Messages   Log inLog in 
Blu-ray disc release list and must-have titles. Buy the latest and best Blu-ray titles to show off in your home theater!

New HT design
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Home Theater Design & Construction
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
A shot behind the screen...very dusty, I haven't been back there in 10 years.



038.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  126.55 KB
 Viewed:  6010 Time(s)

038.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ceiling view (turned sideways, showing that section we cut out of the drywall. I have no need to run more cables front to back save for 2 HDMI cables that didn't exist 12 years ago when we installed this originally. Barco 909 bracket in clear view..


039.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  127.13 KB
 Viewed:  6008 Time(s)

039.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To the right a bit more, showing the full window on the front right, and the wood paneling of the fireplace to the right of the window.


040.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  126.2 KB
 Viewed:  6007 Time(s)

040.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More or less most of the right side wall. Fireplace in full view, the GE Talaria projector to the left of it. Rolling Eyes


041.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  163.66 KB
 Viewed:  6006 Time(s)

041.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back of the right side wall, sliding patio door to under my deck. Rack shown is the HT rack.


042.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  139.82 KB
 Viewed:  6005 Time(s)

042.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back wall. Note only one in wall speaker, as we never cut the second one in, as we had a good part of the wall open to run wiring to the right rack, which is the multiroom rack that powers the house. Both the HT and multiroom rack need to be rebuilt, as the sources are... outdated.

note that the two racks are slightly different in height from one another. They were surplus, go figure. Also notice the two steps coming down from the bottom landing into the HT room.



045.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  146.37 KB
 Viewed:  6004 Time(s)

045.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entrance to theater. Dog is a crucial part of the sound absorption.


046.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  166.54 KB
 Viewed:  6003 Time(s)

046.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Massive teak wall unit that houses a crapload of VHS tapes.. .and a few DVDs. It comes apart in sections, and has nice backlighting to it, that I want to wire to a Lutron 6 channel dimmer.


048.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  148.47 KB
 Viewed:  6002 Time(s)

048.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, my thoughts:

1) I need to do this on a very tight budget, as the last 6 months have been kinda slow.

2) My thinking is first to pull a wall in where the current screen is, allowing for a 16:9 cutout for a 10' wide screen. It won't be a wall per se, as I'll cover the area around the screen with sound absorbing panels. I'll want them to come off to access the area behind the screen.

3) I will probably use a drywall screen for now, which will be taken out when I can afford the acoustically transparent screen down the road.

4) I was going to cover the ceiling and walls with DIY sound absorbing panels, but then my buddy suggested removing the ceiling drywall almost completely for a few reasons:

a) It will expose the whole ceiling for wiring now and later
b) it will allow direct access to the existing insulation up there, and will thus simplify the construction of the 2X4 sound absorbing panels. We can stuff the ceiling with insulation galore, deadening the room.
c) The DIY sound panels will cover the ceiling completely, hiding the lack of drywall on the ceiling.
d) It will allow me to make changes to where the 3/4" plywood will be for the projector(s),

5) Put up more 3/4 ply to accommodate the larger screen and stacked 919 projectors.

6) Leave the teak wall unit and fireplace as is for now, but put more DIY panels all around them for more deadening.

BTW, speakers will be 1 3X12" tannoy sub located to the right of the centre channel speaker. LCR are matched EAW 12" 2 ways,. Surrounds are yet to be determined, but I've got assorted speakers around. None are dipole though.

7) Add more power to the room (cabling is already run) as the whole room is running off 1 15 amp outlet. I'm allowing for 2 20 amp circuits to the HT amp rack, and the projectors will most likely run off that as well, one projector per circuit.

8) eventually I'd like to enlarge the steps coming into the HT so that the racks are level with the top step, then 1 row of probably 3 seats, then the other row of 3 seats is at ground level. For now, I'll have to go out and get a couch though, or maybe if things go well, 3 seats for 1 row on the floor.

Ideas, comments?

Also, I'll be running two HDMI cables up through the ceiling since all I've got right now is a single RGB run, but will most likely use one Moome external box, going to an RGB splitter, then out to the projectors.
Back to top
Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You probably don't want to hear this, but you should move the teak unit out of the room. It is taking up way to much space especially if you want to go 10 feet wide in a 14 foot wide room.
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, been debating about that. It's modular and could tentatively go in the living room. I'll leave it for now, but it's not out of the question getting rid of it.
Back to top
CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3886
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
A room can most definitely be too dead. I see and hear that all the time on AVS, actually. People read the build threads, and do floor-to-ceiling absorption, the room ends up over-treated, and sounds completely lifeless. It's especially likely if you like to to listen to music and live concert Blu-rays. There was just some discussion amongst my Iowa AVS guys on this very subject, in fact.

The good thing is that you can do room treatments a little at a time and see how it sounds along the way. Start out with a couple of bass traps in the corners, absorptive panels strategically-placed to tame first reflections, and perhaps a little diffusion in the right spots if necessary, then go from there. If done right, with some help, you can probably get to a 90% solution without too much time or money.

Screen... Craig will say Stewart, to which you'll say, "Great - way too expensive", and I'd concur. If you'd like to stay in the DIY budget realm, but still have an excellent screen, take a look at Seymour Screen Excellence Enlightor 2 material. 1.1 gain, AT, well-respected, and the weave isn't visible unless you're standing pretty near the screen. Seymour is right up the road from me in Iowa. I could have told you to stop there, as it's right on the way if you'd come through Iowa instead of Minnesota on the way to South Dakota like I told you to... Wink Twisted Evil

SC

I agree with pretty much everything.

Curt, you will have noticed that more than 50% of my drywall was NOT treated. I have no treatment behind the screen at all and the absorbing panels only come up about 4.5' from the floor and are spaced. I started with about 60% of the total number of panels I have now. I built them in two lots and added them slowly while listening. You will also have noticed that the ceiling is totally untreated except for one panel in front of my support beam that absorbs the first reflection from the center speaker.

I've been in a lot of rooms that were totally dead and they do sound kind of weird. Dialog in movies is easy to understand, but the sound feels thin.

It can look better if you build your panels in rather than making them as I did and just hanging them, but hanging them gives you the opportunity to tune and move them around. I am not an acoustics expert and only know what I know from reading and experimenting. The sound in my room came from a bit of trial and error.

Your build isn't a very difficult one. If I were you I would just tear into it and get started... that's the only way you will get done Wink

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, can't argue with your last sentence. Smile

It's definitely not going to be used for anything other than HT use. There's a few reasons why it won't be a completely dead room to start with.

a) the teak wall unit will stay... for now. Hard wood and glass.
b) the fireplace will stay, can't move it.
c) other than covering the windows behind the screen, I can leave that untreated.

I will start with the ceiling I think. A bunch has to come down to put up new plywood, and I think the room will look completely different once the ceiling panels are up.

I'll do some more reading before I start, but will get this going next weekend...
Back to top
CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3886
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Curt, the sound deadening material I used was Johns Manville rigid fiberglass. For the mid and high frequency panels all along the walls the stuff is 1.5" thick and the 3 density pound stuff. I didn't want to intrude on the room anymore, but I have read that spacing the material 1-2" from the wall would make it work better.

I built hollow frames for the fiberglass by ripping down 2x4's and then glue and small nail gun. Then wrapped with black fabric similar to speaker grill material. When you pick fabric you want something that sound can easily pass through and I was told that this is an easy thing to test. If you can hold the fabric up to your mouth and blow air through it easily than it is most likely good for acoustic treatment over panels.

The base traps were again Johns Manville rigid fiberglass, but they are 2" thick and made of either 6 density pound or 9 density pound (I can't remember). Building technique was the same, but they are placed as I showed you; following the wall and intersecting in the corners at the back of the room, and placed diagonally across the corners in the front of the room. The base traps in the back are just two pieces of 2x4' panel butted together and come up from the floor 4'. The base traps at the front go floor to ceiling. I didn't want the base traps at the back to absorb sound from the rear and side speakers.

There are lots of competing companies that make rigid fiberglass so you should be able to find some locally. Owens Corning is the most well known brand and is what's reference on the forums usually. If you read up on this just worry about the density required for what you want to do, not the brand of material.

I wound up using exactly one pallet for high and mid frequencies and exactly one pallet for low frequencies in the base traps. It was not very expensive and probably the cheapest and most noticeable upgrade I have ever done.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Back to top
CIR Engineering



Joined: 25 Aug 2008
Posts: 3886
Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany


PostLink    Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
Yeah, can't argue with your last sentence. Smile

It's definitely not going to be used for anything other than HT use. There's a few reasons why it won't be a completely dead room to start with.

a) the teak wall unit will stay... for now. Hard wood and glass.
b) the fireplace will stay, can't move it.
c) other than covering the windows behind the screen, I can leave that untreated.

I will start with the ceiling I think. A bunch has to come down to put up new plywood, and I think the room will look completely different once the ceiling panels are up.

I'll do some more reading before I start, but will get this going next weekend...

I think you should get that huge teak wall unit out of there.

Throw away the VHS and Beta takes and relocate whatever is left.

craigr

_________________
JETI Specbos 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Laboratory Grade Colorimeter
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
ChromaPure3 Pro Color Calibration Software
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Audyssey MultEQ Pro Audio Calibration System
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything else Wink
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Back to top
Bruce 09



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 747
Location: Kamloops BC, Canada


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Curt if you need any help at all let me know. It looks like I am going to be staying down in white rock for the winter.

I am doing a big project down here so I have most of my tools out here with me.
Back to top
AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25456
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(1920's serial music)(old AM radio announcers voice) Will Curt take Bruce up on his offer?(Dun dun dun music) Will Curt actually finish his theater room? (Dunnnnnnn! music) Stay tuned boys and girls!
Laughing

_________________
Tech support for nothing

CRT.

HD done right!
Back to top
View user's photo album (27 photos)
zaphod



Joined: 16 Jun 2006
Posts: 2002
Location: Cloverdale


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt - same as the others i'm thinking that the teak wall unit goes away. If you still want media storage there are lots of options including fitting shelving between the studs on that well (it's an interior wall if i recollect).

Why are you thinking AT screen in the future? your spekers will already be placed with the drywall screen, is your long term goal to place the speakers behind the screen? If so, what does cliffy want for his 4K material?

If the room is HT only then you should consider that the sound matrix is already in the mix and some amount of damping is required to stop reflections from muddying up the matrix.


Bruce - we should talk Smile - I'm in south surrey - and may need some help on my basement reno this winter.

_________________
walk gently. leave a good impression.
Back to top
Tedd



Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 156
Location: Ontario


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty nice space to work with... Smile

I'd narrow the room.

Frame out the windows, fireplace, and sliding doors. Take the teak
unit out of the room.

I wouldn't be stripping the ceiling of much drywall, since there's now a side wall
from the back wall to the AT space. Conduit could carry cabling front to back.
The plywood backing for the projectors would be cut out, and I'd simply repair the
drywall there.

I'd use black speaker grill fabric for all the walls. A friend does this, and it looks
great. And you can do some acoustical treatment behind the cloth panels.

+1 to a full width riser, at entry level. But fill it with insulation and cut in some
vents in the rear corners, to create a full range bass absorber.



speaker cloth.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  100.15 KB
 Viewed:  5831 Time(s)

speaker cloth.jpg



curt.JPG
 Description:
 Filesize:  38.13 KB
 Viewed:  5831 Time(s)

curt.JPG


Back to top
Curt Palme
CRT Tech


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 23711
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the continued input. I think Jask said he was down for the holidays? Can't find his post now, but I'll take him up on stopping by and giving me a quote.
Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic   Printer-friendly view    CurtPalme.com Forum Index -> Home Theater Design & Construction All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum