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My Marquee 8500 Ultra
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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:24 pm    Post subject: My Marquee 8500 Ultra Reply with quote


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Hey, as I maybe mentioned... I got 2 Marquee 8500 Ultra.
I'm planning to set them up together as a 3D stack, but thats future dreaming...
Cause in my room is only the place for one.
I'm planning to move out with my girlfriend, and we're looking to get the right apartment
with room for 2 of those Marquee tanks.

Before I ask my questions: Some infos you might find useful for yourself:
http://www.nmbtc.com/fans/part-numbers/search/3610KL-05W-B20/3891
These are the original LVPS fans, 92x92mm, 24V DC, 33,5CFM (60m³/h) 29,5dB.
I'm replacing these with temperature controlled Arctic F9 Pro TC fans,
http://www.caseking.de/shop/catalog/Arctic-F9-Pro-TC-Luefter-92mm::13100.html
I think the LVPS will be inaudible after I did that.
24 to 12V? I'm planning to use one or two LM 7812 for fixed 12V input.



The Marquee I have now running has 3200hours and both are 38-P15285-ST with P43 greens.

First question: Has anyone changed the other fans in the projector?
Are these the same 92mm NMB fans? They are quieter than the LVPS ones..
Please tell me, i did not uninstall them yet.

Second question: filament voltage: I'm looking for useful pics. Where I can measure and adjust
the filament voltages for the three tubes? Is there only one adjustment pot for all three in the LVPS?
Because I want to adjust while the projector is running, does left turn increase or decrease voltage?
6,3V, right? Not 6,5V... I read 6,5V somewhere, but I believe that there are no tubes at all (including audio
frequency tubes) that need 6,5V filament.

Next one: While the projector is running someone switches the light (fluorescent tube) on or off in my room
or in the bathroom nextdoor, the picture goes off and on again.
I think it's an LVPS problem, maybe something with a integrated mains filter.

And the last one for today: Is there any possibility (or a special test file) to adjust RGB Drivers without a meter?
I mean the zones, I got to much red on the left, to much blue right side of the pic for example.

My current color settings are (6500K edit in Service menu):
Red Driver= 16 G2= 71
Green Driver= 79 G2= 61
Blue Driver= 80 G2= 68

I'm wondering about that Red Driver, 16 seems really low.

G2 should be set right, I did Curts look-in-the-tube-wearing-sunglasses method.

That the green driver does not change much on the picture (nearly nothing) is normal?
Read it somewhere...


Best regards, Julian

What I want to feed Google with: 0901 is the PW Passwort Password key Servicemenu Service Menü

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Marquee 9500U edgeblend P43 | NEC 9PG
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

The F9 fans at 12 volts must match cfms of the NMBs at 24 volts or you will burn up the power supply. Ultras have regulated filament sections, there is no need to adjust anything.
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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Tim, what is cfms?

I'm adjusting mechanical astig right now.. is it normal that brightness increases a lot after doing this?
And I found the P14 connector, it said 6,25V. Should be ok I think. Didn't know that Ultras adjust the Voltage themselves.
Best regards, Julian

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

CFM is cubic feet per minute; there is a metric equivalent like cubic meters/hour, you need comparable air flow after any modifications.
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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Hello

CFM is cubic feet per minute; there is a metric equivalent like cubic meters/hour, you need comparable air flow after any modifications.
right,further more industrial fans are rated to a back-pressure scenario on a scale using inches of water . In other words they can force air into an opening.
Computer fans are junk, they are rated CFM with Zero back-pressure.
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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hm ok, I get the backpressure thing. But: there are people doing this.
Maybe with other fans and some foam, but what fans do they use?
http://www.curtpalme.com/MARQUEE_FAN_MOD.shtm

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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah ok, Tim, it's you who does the fan mod sold here..
I think you've seen the links: The Arctic F9 has 59,5m³/h and the NMB fan
that is original has about 1m³/min. Seems to be really the same.
I have some acoustic foam here and will try it.
More info would help, but I understand that you are selling these mods
and would not be disappointed if you keep your info as a secret.

Best regards, Julian

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all Computer fans are junk.

here is the link form my fan quite mod.

Now not all Chassis will have to have you cut the fans down as I found out when I did another
Marquee a year later. I think the one I had was bent in that area.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=131505#131505

LVPS Cap Upgrade also Mods by JeaHong Lee

We are going to replace all the aged electrolytic capacitors with newer Low ESR caps
of same value(except for one) but with either same voltage or higher. Use the caps listed
in the Above parts list post or do research on different series caps and look for high temp
low ESR if possible. The FC and FM series from Panasonic are what would be ideal for the entire
Unit but some values are hard to find in small quantities from suppliers the FC was their best
cap but it was improved upon by the FM series so if you want to spend a bit more try to find
the FM values but most places only have certain values. The Xicon low esr caps can also be
used, these were caps I have seen used by PSI in there Reference 8 PJ In certain boards.
When those cant be found I went to the CD SEK series caps and Chem-con EKMG series.

While you have the power supply apart it is an ideal time for some sound proofing and maybe
the fan mod. I lined the inside with Dynamat vibration and sound deadener And also acoustical
open cell foam to trap noise.
I used Enermax Enobal bearing silent fan 120mm size. Very quiet 16 db 12 volt fans they were a
bit to tall for my power supply bay so I had to put the table saw to the edges and cut them
down on two sides. I was able to keep the mounting holes where I used rubber fan mounts instead
of screws. These can be found at most Quiet PC web sites.
For the fans I built an easy power supply step down converter to go from 24V to 12v.

12v step down converter Schematic courtesy of 1031(Jarmo)



Enermax Enlobal Bering Silent fan 120mm fans shaved down top and bottom to fit in power supply bay
16 db !!! Mount with Rubber fan mounts, not screws if you can.



12 volt power supply, notice how I cut the metal case to allow full air flow of 120mm fan
Mount PCb board to case.




Dynamat Sound deadener and accoustic foam 1/4 inch thick.






Next the caps.

Nashou

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr. Nash


Director of Overkill! Smile
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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Dr. Nash


Director of Overkill! Smile


I have to say when I do that mod and you walk in the room you can not tell if the PJ is in stand by or off.

I still need to do it to my Longbows. I sold that PS with my the one PJ I sold. Sad

Now I found with the belly fans I would not change a thing. Just add rubber fan mounts and add the acoustic foam.

I also did a test with the fans by taping a piece of paper on one end of the exhaust with the stock Fan ( facing up out of PJ do not touch the connector blade!!!) and measured the deflection of the paper, then did the same with the new fans. I got the same deflection so the same air pressure which is what you want to look for. I also cut out the cage of the LVPS exhaust side.

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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the big E




Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nash I hate to threadjack but wouldn't useing th nmb fans with the foam in the fan mod make the set queiter

I say this as I recently got a 9500LC as parts(mainly for the tubes) and transferred the fan mod to my 8110+ lvps and had to swap the papst fans for the nmb fans it came with now my marquee is dead slient when off and almost as quiet as some of my digital projectors(I have tested the tube heater voltage for my 8110+ lvps and its at 6.3 so that's good)

I am going to remove the vent like you did and see if it makes a difference so far I am happy as I can listen to my music on my ps3 with my home theater reciver volume at 8(never could do that low before with the set running)

I was wondering if putting noise deadening in certain other areas would cut down on the noise level of these great machines (love my marquee)

To the op nmb fans are stock as that's what is in my set(electrohome got good fans for these sets)

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Nashou66




Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16171
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 92mm fans spin faster so they are louder. Yes the foam helps a hell of a lot the way tim did it. either way works but I like the larger fans, no bearings as they float on magnets.

Nashou

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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the big E




Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Tim in Phoenix wrote:
Dr. Nash


Director of Overkill! Smile


I have to say when I do that mod and you walk in the room you can not tell if the PJ is in stand by or off.

I still need to do it to my Longbows. I sold that PS with my the one PJ I sold. Sad

Now I found with the belly fans I would not change a thing. Just add rubber fan mounts and add the acoustic foam.

I also did a test with the fans by taping a piece of paper on one end of the exhaust with the stock Fan ( facing up out of PJ do not touch the connector blade!!!) and measured the deflection of the paper, then did the same with the new fans. I got the same deflection so the same air pressure which is what you want to look for. I also cut out the cage of the LVPS exhaust side.

Nashou


One thing how does one go about gaining access to the belly fans
I see a panel on the belly of my marquee and can see the fans topside when the tubes are removed

Any tips to make this beast a dead silent one I am all ears

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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nashou, thanks for the description. Some questions (cause I'm German..):
- What are Longbows?

- I think by "belly fans" you mean the fans inside the projector, meaning those that are not in the LVPS.
Right?
Quote:
Now I found with the belly fans I would not change a thing. Just add rubber fan mounts and add the acoustic foam.


at the big E: I agree with you. Everyone says that Pabst make the best fans ever, but when I searched their website,
the quietest fans for 24V and about 60m³/h (those we need for the LVPS) have about 25dB(A).
I think this is because of the 24V, these fans are made for industrial applications such as control cabinets.
Noone cares if these are 20 or 30dB.
But the original fans from NMB are 29,5dB and always running at full speed.
Maybe the Papst fans that were in your projector just where to old (with damaged bearings) or some even noisier models.
But you can go quieter, believe us.

And Nashou: I use these 500-1800rpm Temp sensor fans because they will hopefully not spin so fast.
My LVPS does not get warm at all (now, with the original fans). I agree that bigger fans are always better,
but I didn't want to cut the new 120mm fans I have here...
Nice foam pics btw Smile This and the fans power source with 7812 is done exactly how I plan it too.

I actually did not want to talk about fans.
I ordered the arctics, and if the topic is interesting to you, I will tell you if they are good or not.


I've written about the "switching on and off"-problem my projector has. And, as the seller told me,
the other 8500U he gave me (that I've not set up yet, but he had) has exactly the same manner.
So I think it must be a well known problem in the "projector scene".
Again the description:
Quote:
Next one: While the projector is running someone switches the light (fluorescent tube) on or off in my room
or in the bathroom nextdoor, the picture goes off and on again.
I think it's an LVPS problem, maybe something with a integrated mains filter.


Whats thrilling me now is the following:
I'm adjusting astig, stuck at point 9. Here's the description (thanks to Bill Blue)
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/MARQUEE%20MAGNETICS%20SETUP%20101%20by%20Bill%20Blue.pdf.
What does "most forward yoke mean? Deflection yoke? Should I loosen and turn the deflection yoke
to get the picture square to the screen?
What is the flare ring knob? The knob on the astic magnets? My projector only has a knob on the 2pole magnet, the
other has no knob and does not change anything on the image when I rotate it round the tube.

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the big E




Joined: 20 Apr 2013
Posts: 1928
Location: speedwell Tn.


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tschaeikaei wrote:
Hey Nashou, thanks for the description. Some questions (cause I'm German..):
- What are Longbows?

- I think by "belly fans" you mean the fans inside the projector, meaning those that are not in the LVPS.
Right?
Quote:
Now I found with the belly fans I would not change a thing. Just add rubber fan mounts and add the acoustic foam.


at the big E: I agree with you. Everyone says that Pabst make the best fans ever, but when I searched their website,
the quietest fans for 24V and about 60m³/h (those we need for the LVPS) have about 25dB(A).
I think this is because of the 24V, these fans are made for industrial applications such as control cabinets.
Noone cares if these are 20 or 30dB.
But the original fans from NMB are 29,5dB and always running at full speed.
Maybe the Papst fans that were in your projector just where to old (with damaged bearings) or some even noisier models.
But you can go quieter, believe us.

And Nashou: I use these 500-1800rpm Temp sensor fans because they will hopefully not spin so fast.
My LVPS does not get warm at all (now, with the original fans). I agree that bigger fans are always better,
but I didn't want to cut the new 120mm fans I have here...
Nice foam pics btw Smile This and the fans power source with 7812 is done exactly how I plan it too.

I actually did not want to talk about fans.
I ordered the arctics, and if the topic is interesting to you, I will tell you if they are good or not.


I've written about the "switching on and off"-problem my projector has. And, as the seller told me,
the other 8500U he gave me (that I've not set up yet, but he had) has exactly the same manner.
So I think it must be a well known problem in the "projector scene".
Again the description:
Quote:
Next one: While the projector is running someone switches the light (fluorescent tube) on or off in my room
or in the bathroom nextdoor, the picture goes off and on again.
I think it's an LVPS problem, maybe something with a integrated mains filter.


Whats thrilling me now is the following:
I'm adjusting astig, stuck at point 9. Here's the description (thanks to Bill Blue)
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/MARQUEE%20MAGNETICS%20SETUP%20101%20by%20Bill%20Blue.pdf.
What does "most forward yoke mean? Deflection yoke? Should I loosen and turn the deflection yoke
to get the picture square to the screen?
What is the flare ring knob? The knob on the astic magnets? My projector only has a knob on the 2pole magnet, the
other has no knob and does not change anything on the image when I rotate it round the tube.


Yep the belly fans are the three inside the set

I do have a lvps if you want to get it from me I removed the fans as they are the papst fans and they are noisier then the nmb fans
Btw the lvps fans are not alway spinning at full speed the belly fans are when the set is running(though they aren't bad as I have digital projectors that are louder)

The fans in both my projectors are probably around the same age afik

As far as the yoke and astig is concerned try putting the settings to midpoint on the focus and convergence before messing with the yokes as it will be worser if you don't and will be hard on the set(this is done in the service menu)

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Last edited by the big E on Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey big E, I have two working LVPS, thanks. Did you just remove or change the fans?
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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I did a complete initialisation of the projector.
Im stuck now at point 10c.
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/MARQUEE%20MAGNETICS%20SETUP%20101%20by%20Bill%20Blue.pdf
The "flare ring" is the astig knob, that should be turned to neutral at point 4, right?
And we do "destroy" the neutral point again now?
Found some ARTwork here: http://www.lucaveneziani.it/images/Marquee.gif.
Good thing, thanks to Tim. My model has the stig ring (just a ring behind the 2 pole magnets),
but I don't see anything change when I turn it.
Best regards, Julian

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draganm




Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 8990
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tschaeikaei wrote:
Good thing, thanks to Tim. My model has the stig ring (just a ring behind the 2 pole magnets),
but I don't see anything change when I turn it.
Best regards, Julian
you have to push contrast to 80 and focus to Zero to see the Stig ring and focus to 100 to see the flare.
I have a document that walks you through this with pics if you like, you might have to use Google translate to German?
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tschaeikaei




Joined: 08 Apr 2013
Posts: 489
Location: Germany/Saarland


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey draganm, I understand the settings so far, but I don't know where and what I should adjust in 10c.
In 10d I should adjust the "flare ring knob", where is this ring and knob?
Referring to the artwork Smile it is the ring that was zeroed out in step four.
I just want to make shure that I don't destroy settings I earlier made.
Thanks.

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Tim in Phoenix




Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 4378
Location: Phoenix


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello

This is the rearmost yoke on the tube neck. If there is one knob, that knob is flare. Rings without knobs are inert spacers
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