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geisemann
Joined: 30 Nov 2009 Posts: 33
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for posting Greg, i will have a read soon mate
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:08 am Post subject: |
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Where's the writeup of this Cine 9 vs. VW1000 shootout? I've heard it bandied about, but nothing seems to be written about it. It's like legend. Threads from 3-5 years ago aren't really that interesting since the VW1000 didn't even exist back then. I'd love to see a writeup on it.
Anyone? Bueller?
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mx83toy
Joined: 14 Dec 2012 Posts: 322
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Link Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 3:36 am Post subject: |
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would love to see some comparison screen shots or writeup as well
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kabuby77
Joined: 28 Mar 2011 Posts: 147 Location: Italy
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Link Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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This is good for your business, but the explanation is a bit too poor.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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Link Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | Where's the writeup of this Cine 9 vs. VW1000 shootout? Anyone? Bueller?
SC |
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491224/eisemann-theater-simulation-grade-tubes-have-a-better-picture-than-an-vw1000es
Quite the disparity between what Greg is claiming and what the owner of the VW1000 has to say. As Mark Haflich put it in another thread, it looks like Greg is "trolling for business."
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ecrabb wrote: | Curt Palme wrote: | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:09 am Post subject: |
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The owner of the Sony is obviously biased, but he felt the CRT only won in very dark scenes.
I hope Sony has better material this year for the 1000 than they did 2 years ago. I know Steve and I were on the back row and didn't see a huge difference. Kris Deering gave me a hard time for not seeing the problems with the video feed. I went back and sat on the front row and could see what Kris was talking about. Sony will have their new 500 this year as well.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 7:59 am Post subject: |
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Spanky Ham wrote: | The owner of the Sony is obviously biased, but he felt the CRT only won in very dark scenes. |
Given that he's human, I can't disagree with your statement. Of course the same applies to Greg and his statements - even more so since he is selling the product that he claims "won."
Spanky Ham wrote: | I hope Sony has better material this year for the 1000 than they did 2 years ago. I know Steve and I were on the back row and didn't see a huge difference. Kris Deering gave me a hard time for not seeing the problems with the video feed. I went back and sat on the front row and could see what Kris was talking about. Sony will have their new 500 this year as well. |
I finally got to see my first 4K dislpays recently - the 55", 65", and 84" Sonys, playing 4K demo content. I thought the exact same thing that you did when I saw them from farther away - I wasn't immediately blown away or captivated as I was the first time that I saw an HD display. The store actually had seats set up just outside of 1 screen width with signs explaining why you needed to sit closer, which I thought was a good idea. At that distance, I thought the displays looked nice, but I was a little disappointed with what appeared to be compression artifacts in some of the material during fast motion. Based on that limited experience, I'll say that 4K makes sense for >80" displays (smaller is acceptable for use with extra-close viewing distances such as a computer monitor), and definitely for theaters where you have seating within about 1.5 SW. My theater would certainly be one of those.
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ecrabb wrote: | Curt Palme wrote: | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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wwm
Joined: 15 Aug 2012 Posts: 18
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:05 am Post subject: |
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I got it, but not yet installed.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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HogPilot wrote: | I finally got to see my first 4K dislpays recently - the 55", 65", and 84" Sonys, playing 4K demo content. I thought the exact same thing that you did when I saw them from farther away - I wasn't immediately blown away or captivated as I was the first time that I saw an HD display. The store actually had seats set up just outside of 1 screen width with signs explaining why you needed to sit closer, which I thought was a good idea. At that distance, I thought the displays looked nice, but I was a little disappointed with what appeared to be compression artifacts in some of the material during fast motion. Based on that limited experience, I'll say that 4K makes sense for >80" displays (smaller is acceptable for use with extra-close viewing distances such as a computer monitor), and definitely for theaters where you have seating within about 1.5 SW. My theater would certainly be one of those. |
I saw my first 4k content at CEDIA, going on three years ago now. I had exactly the opposite reaction. Ho Lee sh*t. It was a JVC demo—their $200k commercial D-ILA projector, and it must have been on a 50-foot wide screen. To prove your point though, I was probably sitting at around 1x screen width, and it looked stunning. I could have sat there and watched the 5- or 10 minute demo loop for an hour. It was stunning. Spanky Ham was with me for that demo too, and still jokes about my reaction. I'll go on record and say it was total "home theater videophile geek wood" material. Super high-quality demo material, no artifacting... Just very clean. The difference between the 4k demo material and the 2k movie trailers was night and day.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | HogPilot wrote: | I finally got to see my first 4K dislpays recently - the 55", 65", and 84" Sonys, playing 4K demo content. I thought the exact same thing that you did when I saw them from farther away - I wasn't immediately blown away or captivated as I was the first time that I saw an HD display. The store actually had seats set up just outside of 1 screen width with signs explaining why you needed to sit closer, which I thought was a good idea. At that distance, I thought the displays looked nice, but I was a little disappointed with what appeared to be compression artifacts in some of the material during fast motion. Based on that limited experience, I'll say that 4K makes sense for >80" displays (smaller is acceptable for use with extra-close viewing distances such as a computer monitor), and definitely for theaters where you have seating within about 1.5 SW. My theater would certainly be one of those. |
I saw my first 4k content at CEDIA, going on three years ago now. I had exactly the opposite reaction. Ho Lee sh*t. It was a JVC demo—their $200k commercial D-ILA projector, and it must have been on a 50-foot wide screen. To prove your point though, I was probably sitting at around 1x screen width, and it looked stunning. I could have sat there and watched the 5- or 10 minute demo loop for an hour. It was stunning. Spanky Ham was with me for that demo too, and still jokes about my reaction. I'll go on record and say it was total "home theater videophile geek wood" material. Super high-quality demo material, no artifacting... Just very clean. The difference between the 4k demo material and the 2k movie trailers was night and day.
SC |
I'm a firm believer in the efficacy of 4K and I don't disagree that it has the potential to be far more impressive than HD. Hopefully I can see a 4K display with better material. I've been giving the Sony 600 some consideration depending upon the street price, since my theater could definitely benefit from it.
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ecrabb wrote: | Curt Palme wrote: | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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When youre refering to 4k here, are you refering to actual 4k or Ultra HD? Ive only seen UHD in the flesh on a domestic grade 80" display, and it was less than mind blowing, but from all ive read the difference between 4k and UHD is pretty significant.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | When youre refering to 4k here, are you refering to actual 4k or Ultra HD? Ive only seen UHD in the flesh on a domestic grade 80" display, and it was less than mind blowing, but from all ive read the difference between 4k and UHD is pretty significant. |
Hog and I are mixing the two. He's talking about the Sony's, so UHD. I was talking about the DLA-RS4000 that JVC showed off in Atlanta in 2010 I think... So, three years ago. That's 4k.
Without a doubt the difference between 4k and UHD is not insignificant. However, UHD is quadruple the resolution of 1080p, while 4k is less than 20% more resolution than UHD. So, if we're going to talk about mind-blowing, it would be the jump from 1080p to UHD, not the jump from UHD to true 4k.
That said, I think the "difference between 4k and UHD is pretty significant" sentiment you hear probably comes mostly from the sources that are used. When true 4k gets demoed, it's always commercial source gear with 4k high-resolution sources and no doubt the displays are calibrated to the hilt. When people look at UHD sets - like Hog and the Sonys - it's usually in a Best Buy or some other retail store, where the set may or may not be calibrated well, and with the pre-release Sony player playing clips that are nowhere near up to the quality of the source material used with true 4k displays.
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HogPilot
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 2383
TV/Projector: Vizio P702ui-B3, Pioneer Elite Pro-151FD & 111FD
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Link Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | When youre refering to 4k here, are you refering to actual 4k or Ultra HD? Ive only seen UHD in the flesh on a domestic grade 80" display, and it was less than mind blowing, but from all ive read the difference between 4k and UHD is pretty significant. |
I'm referring to any display with on the order of 4x the resolution of HDTV. Sony's VW1000 and VW500/600 projectors adhere to the 4K spec in terms of resolution at 4096x2160; their TVs are marketed as "4K UHD" and have a resolution of 3840x2160. Samsung and LG call the latter UHD; whatever label is attached to it, the source material is important in terms of compression (or lack thereof), as is the viewing distance.
I've seen threads on AVS arguing over the technicality of 4K vs UHD - arguing the distinction is as useless as arguing the difference between 2K and HD. The two markets simply don't overlap, so who cares if they use the same terminology or not. No one here is going to ever drop the coin for consistent access to commercial 2K or 4K content (or to have a true 2K or 4K commercial projector), we are all going to watch the consumer stuff.
Like I said, the 4K material I watched had some visible compression artifacts, but a lot of the first HD material had the same problem. That doesn't mean 4K isn't useful.
_________________
ecrabb wrote: | Curt Palme wrote: | Interesting, Mac isn't returning my emails. Go figure. |
He's mad at us for making Hog a moderator. He took his ball and went home.
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:58 am Post subject: |
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Not that im interested in arguing over the difference, but its not the 256 less lines that makes UHD down Vs 4k, that is neither here nor there, the other differences as well as the difference between consumer panels and commercial panels are where i would expect the biggest difference to lie.
Crabb youre correct about what i saw being in a consumer electronics type store, there were 3 different ones in 3 stores, the LG had some sort of LG labeled computer connected to it with very high quailty scenes on it, but its the screen door effect that was clearly visible from 2.5-3 meters away that really caught my eye. No amount of callibration is gonna cure that
The colour and contrast were quite exceptional, the images were almost all stills, and scenes of movement were all slow movements, nothing fast.
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Spanky Ham
Joined: 22 Mar 2006 Posts: 5643 Location: Comedy Central
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Link Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:37 am Post subject: |
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Hog,
I think we are all in agreement. The JVC commercial 4k at Cedia only looked average IMO on bluray. It was with the native 4k material that it really shined. The first year in Atl they just had 4k stills that I thought looked awesome. It was the second year in Atl that they had native 4k video. They had the same demo in Indy the following year.
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VideoGrabber
Joined: 09 Apr 2006 Posts: 933 Location: Michigan
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Way to hijack a thread, guys! 2/3 of the discussion here has nothing to do with CRT PJs, and everything to do with beyond HD digital.
I'm not opposed to the topic... 4K is certainly worthy of discussion. I'm just dubious that anyone interested in UHD/4K will find it buried here in Greg's advertisement for his End of Summer Sale.
_________________ - Tim
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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We highjacked what amounts to for sale spam thread.
O noes.
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jask
Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10164 Location: kamloops BC
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Greg, if you can not work out something to maintain a product vendor link you might want to consider buying advertising space here. Posting a bunch of links to your site and 5 year old posts on another forum, with no content related to the thread subject contributes nothing to your claim.
I did get to read the post from the digital owner- since he was not the one who was impressed could you post a link to the person who was? What test were performed? benchmarks used? I have no doubt your tubes are great, but how about some real objective numbers instead of hype?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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VideoGrabber wrote: | Way to hijack a thread, guys! 2/3 of the discussion here has nothing to do with CRT PJs, and everything to do with beyond HD digital.
I'm not opposed to the topic... 4K is certainly worthy of discussion. I'm just dubious that anyone interested in UHD/4K will find it buried here in Greg's advertisement for his End of Summer Sale. |
Hmmm... Thanks for your input...
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