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Barco Cine9 impressions with internal Moome card
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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2751
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
km987654 wrote:
That is one huge screen.

Mine is considerably larger than that.


OMG

What are we talking about? How large a screen are you using?
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1485



PostLink    Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3m in width with a darkened room and good tubes should not be a problem at all.
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 7:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
km987654 wrote:
That is one huge screen.

Mine is considerably larger than that.


OMG

What are we talking about? How large a screen are you using?

125"
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RaWsHaRk



Joined: 01 May 2009
Posts: 127
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
km987654 wrote:
CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
km987654 wrote:
That is one huge screen.

Mine is considerably larger than that.


OMG

What are we talking about? How large a screen are you using?

125"


those arent really large screens...I have a 120 and its not big..the guy I bought it from had been using it with a analogue 5.5 tube crt, a seleco 350. I saw the pic before i took it down and damn it wasnt sharp...he had been using it for 14000 hours.

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Electrohome Marquee 7500.
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seleco SVP350 is a 7" machine.

Mine is 5:4, so it is quite large.
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gjaky



Joined: 05 Jun 2010
Posts: 2623
Location: Budapest, Hungary


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CasetheCorvetteman wrote:
Seleco SVP350 is a 7" machine.

Mine is 5:4, so it is quite large.


As always 7" is the advertised tube size, the effective (usable tube) size is really around 5,5", the 9" tubes have 7" usable tube size.

PS: I have 152 screen width... Cool in cm

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projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB
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CasetheCorvetteman



Joined: 09 Nov 2008
Posts: 6319
Location: Australia


PostLink    Posted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran my 07MS tubes at 3mm from the edges for a long time, even ran the 9PG at near full face for about the last 4 years, i finally had a convergence board fail at the start of the week, but it was decomissioned a month ago anyway Wink using the factory recomendation on the Cine 9, which is almost the whole face anyway.
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1485



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did an auto-calibration today.


Equipment:

- Cine 9
- Lumagen Radiance XS
- CalMan 4.x latest version (Interactive Mode)
- OCT1000 meter

Result is simply stunning after about 45 minutes of calibration.

Greyscale and Gamma is nearly perfect (11-point)

Primaries and secondaries are also matching.


Will post some more screenshots soon......

I can highly recommend the auto-cal feature !


ElTopo

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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

craig has mentioned that you shouldn't use autocal with crt.
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1485



PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It gives me a great result so why should i not use it ?
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Barco Cine 9 the one and only
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used it too and got good results , but i used Chrompure. I do not feel like paying the high cost to upgrade to full automation in Calman. I have CalMan 4 right now Professional and to go up to the latest they want 500 dollars more.

One thing to look out for is Posterization if you over use the corrections. One issue with the radiance I discovered.

Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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km987654



Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2751
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you need a radiance to do auto calibration?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

km987654 wrote:
Do you need a radiance to do auto calibration?


yes either a radiance or the DVDO Duo, with CalMan there are some Flat panel and Digital PJ's
that have CMS built in and CalMan talks to the Internal "Computer" to make the adjustments.

Chromapure so far only talks to the radiance and Duo

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1485



PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did an auto-cal on the Barco 909 and on the Cine9 with very good excellent results.

All the patterns are chosen automatically from the Radiance. The meter captures the IRE/primaries/secondaries (depending on which section you are) and the Radiance will be updated.

You can even grab the color bars with your mouse and drag them where they have to be.

Meter reads again and updates the Radiance........

When the calibration is finished you wil see a huge difference/improvement vs. a "free hand" calibration without a meter.


ElTopo

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ill love to try the autocalibrate when i get my new HT up running, but i'm sure the better the projector perform before making adjustments in the Radiance is better.

And i also think Craig might know what he is talking about.

But im sure auto cal will help a lot on a not perfect setup/ calibrated CRT.

Ill for sure use a few days/ weeks to get as perfect native Gamma/ Grayscale as posible, and for me that has a lot to do with the focus on the different tubes.

I seen perfect flat Gamma run on my Marquee on red and green, and blue just needing a bit of corection from 50% IRE and up.

For me its super important that the low level dont get any corection and run perfect out of Black at a gamma around 2.23-2.24 and minimum 10fl at 100% IRE

But we all have different preferences..
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Spanky Ham



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
It gives me a great result so why should i not use it ?


I can't remember his reason, but we discussed it last year. Maybe Craig will chime in.
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ElTopo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 1485



PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An older auto-cal with my Rality 909

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23746&highlight=br909

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanky Ham wrote:
ElTopo wrote:
It gives me a great result so why should i not use it ?


I can't remember his reason, but we discussed it last year. Maybe Craig will chime in.


The One reason is its not perfect. With CRT the phosphor still stays illuminated a bit after the
pattern changes. This is fine when going from a low IRE to a Higher one but when going from
A Higher IRE to lower it will affect the calibration. After a auto calibration is done and the report
is made it all look great on paper. But then go back and do a new measurement , the results
will not be the same as in the auto cal report. The persistence of the phosphor contaminates
the lower IRE reading. What I do is do a an auto in Chromapure with a DE set to 2.5 so it runs faster.
Then I do a complete reading of the values manually with a 10 second wait period between
readings to give the phosphor time to settle. I then go back and adjust for the inconsistencies
of the auto cal. The Mid IRE's is where i found it is off the most and then of course the very very
low IRE's of 10 and 5 . When adjusting i use Chromapure's Gamma module to get the gamma curve flat
and the RGB lined up as well as possible. I would rather get the gamma closer than the RGB's for my blend
as long as the DE of the RGB is under 2.5 - 3 it is not that noticeable. Gamma is critical for me tho. A few
hundredths off makes a difference.

Yes Kurt trying to get the PJ calibration as good as possible with out the lumagen does really help the image
avoid any posterization that the color processing of the radiance might introduce. However sometimes its
best to leave some color imbalance on the top end so less processing is used in the mid IRE's where most
content gamut lies is what I found in the Marquee's. So i leave blue higher at 80, maybe about 110-120%.
This I found gives me a very flat RGB from 30-70 in the PJ only. Then I do the rest in the Radiance
so I hardly touch those mid IRE's, just a smidgen here and there.

The key also is to use contrast and Brightness during the process. I put up a 30 % white window and
lower brightness to make sure my black level is good after calibration which always raises it a bit. I then
re measure 30, if the difference is large I make adjustments in the PJ then go re measure 80 at that
brightness level to see if there is any effect. If not then I raise contrast to get the most fl I can before
blooming at 80 and measure, usually it stays the same maybe a slight increase in blue where I use the
radiance to lower it, using the Drive will alter the rest of the IRE's. Blue Drive and Red drive have a larger
effect on the lower end than you would think in the marquee. You can see this by displaying a 30%
pattern and adjusting those drives a few clicks will move the bars a bit more than I like.

So having strayed a bit try to get as flat an RGB curve using the PJ controls from 30-70 using 30 and
80 as the measurement points. then use the radiance for the low and high end and some touch up
in the middle.

Also Kurt if you have Chromapure try the BT.1886 Gamma it lowers the gamma at the low IRE's
for better shadow details . I tried it last night but can not use it for a blend since the blend VP's gamma
adjustment is for flat gamma only, but on a single or stacked set up it be awesome!!! The Low end looked
really good. And after I then bump 0 IRE luma down to -3 in the radiance to make sure black is black.


Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal


Last edited by Nashou66 on Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mr_ro_co



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 1643
Location: Santa Fe NM


PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ElTopo wrote:
Did an auto-calibration today.


Equipment:

- Cine 9
- Lumagen Radiance XS
- CalMan 4.x latest version (Interactive Mode)
- OCT1000 meter

Result is simply stunning after about 45 minutes of calibration.

Greyscale and Gamma is nearly perfect (11-point)

Primaries and secondaries are also matching.


Will post some more screenshots soon......

I can highly recommend the auto-cal feature !


ElTopo



I'm assuming this would also work with the Radiance Mini?

Steve

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athanasios,

I realy think that its important not to correct the gamma from 0-30% IRE, in the Radiance, and it is possible if you just dont use the VIM with the line mod.

Using the VIM with the line mod, or a 03 vim will destroy the low level gamma curve.

I dont think the Radiance low level adjustment steps is much to rough, and dont find the need to use it when its possible not to.
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