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gnnash
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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draganm wrote: | I just see a splitter, is it a stripper too and they're just not advertising the feature? |
A good number of these cheaper splitters are also strippers. It was probably cheaper to strip the HDCP out and have two HDMI transmitters than doing the proper three-way HDCP handshaking between two displays and a source.
Added bonus is that it caches the EDID data from whatever display device you have connected when you plug it in, so handshaking issues which require a specific order of powering up devices are greatly reduced as well.
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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gnnash wrote: | draganm wrote: | I just see a splitter, is it a stripper too and they're just not advertising the feature? |
A good number of these cheaper splitters are also strippers. It was probably cheaper to strip the HDCP out and have two HDMI transmitters than doing the proper three-way HDCP handshaking between two displays and a source.
Added bonus is that it caches the EDID data from whatever display device you have connected when you plug it in, so handshaking issues which require a specific order of powering up devices are greatly reduced as well. | ok thanks
So pardon my igorance but what's the really benny here? For someone looking to feed an analog display can you now use the splitter, strip the HDCP, but you you still need ot convert to analog signal. What the cheapest way to do that?
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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draganm wrote: | ok thanks
So pardon my igorance but what's the really benny here? For someone looking to feed an analog display can you now use the splitter, strip the HDCP, but you you still need ot convert to analog signal. What the cheapest way to do that? |
The benefits are different depending on what type of display you have.
For guys who want to use older processors (like the Lumagen HDP) with digital inputs, but which aren't HDCP compliant, this solves that problem.
For others who have handshake problems (irrespective of display or switching equipment), this solves that problem because the splitter/stripper handshakes with the source, completely irrespective of everything else down the chain, i.e. switcher or display.
If you read through this thread, there are several accounts of how this has solved problems for people, including me.
SC
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gnnash
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | draganm wrote: | ok thanks
So pardon my igorance but what's the really benny here? For someone looking to feed an analog display can you now use the splitter, strip the HDCP, but you you still need ot convert to analog signal. What the cheapest way to do that? |
The benefits are different depending on what type of display you have.
For guys who want to use older processors (like the Lumagen HDP) with digital inputs, but which aren't HDCP compliant, this solves that problem.
For others who have handshake problems (irrespective of display or switching equipment), this solves that problem because the splitter/stripper handshakes with the source, completely irrespective of everything else down the chain, i.e. switcher or display.
If you read through this thread, there are several accounts of how this has solved problems for people, including me.
SC |
Exactly. And even better, for devices that allow digital-to-analog conversion and are truly HDCP compliant, they shut off the analog outputs when HDCP is present.
That's what my HDQ does, so having a stripper allows for custom porch settings with HDCP-protected sources. And as a bonus, an HDQ is a lot cheaper than a radiance, which would still require a moome at the end to boot!
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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ok cool, just bid on an HDQ on flea bay. Plan ot use the splitter from BD player to VP and then analog RGB output to CRT.
Assuming I can figure out How to use the HDQ (If Craig had trouble last time I'm in for a bad ride), I plan to create some unique resolutions for my 8500 like 1440 x 810 @72Hz.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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draganm wrote: | ok cool, just bid on an HDQ on flea bay. Plan ot use the splitter from BD player to VP and then analog RGB output to CRT.
Assuming I can figure out How to use the HDQ (If Craig had trouble last time I'm in for a bad ride), I plan to create some unique resolutions for my 8500 like 1440 x 810 @72Hz. |
The HDQ will do a great Job drags. And the Limited CMS in the HDQ is worth the price IMO.
Nashou
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gnnash
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN
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Link Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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The 11-point parametric correction is awesome for correcting gamma on the low end. True blacks and shadow detail!
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veelangs
Joined: 22 Oct 2014 Posts: 59 Location: Chicago
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:20 am Post subject: |
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quick question, i don't need one of these if i'm just trying to get a pc hdmi signal to my ampro 2600 right?
i'd just have to do hdmi from laptop to hdmi/vga box to scaler (dream scaler in my case) bnc out of dream scaler to bnc in on ampro
that's it right? I mean I don't mind adding one of these to the chain, but I'm new so wondering. my experience with hdcp leads me to believe that only things like bluray/hddvd/ps3 etc need to have that stripped. but pc inputs should be clean
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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draganm wrote: | ok cool, just bid on an HDQ on flea bay. Plan ot use the splitter from BD player to VP and then analog RGB output to CRT.
Assuming I can figure out How to use the HDQ (If Craig had trouble last time I'm in for a bad ride), I plan to create some unique resolutions for my 8500 like 1440 x 810 @72Hz. |
You'll get the hang of the HDQ with time. I am just rusty on the VisionHDP line because all I work with anymore is the Radiance. A lot has changed over the years and the Radiance interface is much different.
Be ready for a steep learning curve on the HDQ though. I would not use the primary color adjustments on the HDQ at all. It only has RGB and no YMC. When you adjust RG or B than your secondary colors get trashed. The color gamut adjustments on the HDQ were added for the sole reason to fix really egregious digital projectors with ridiculously exaggerated green primary coordinates.
To keep 1:1 pixel mapping for things like 818x1920, be sure to use the 4x3 input aspect ratio. That is the weirdest thing with the HDQ. I forgot that the last time I worked with one (Justin) and it took me a couple hours to sort it all out.
The analog output on the HDQ is really wonderful. Very little noise and very high bandwidth.
craigr
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draganm
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 8990 Location: Colorado
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | Be ready for a steep learning curve on the HDQ though. I would not use the primary color adjustments on the HDQ at all. It only has RGB and no YMC. When you adjust RG or B than your secondary colors get trashed. The color gamut adjustments on the HDQ were added for the sole reason to fix really egregious digital projectors with ridiculously exaggerated green primary coordinates.
To keep 1:1 pixel mapping for things like 818x1920, be sure to use the 4x3 input aspect ratio. That is the weirdest thing with the HDQ. I forgot that the last time I worked with one (Justin) and it took me a couple hours to sort it all out.
The analog output on the HDQ is really wonderful. Very little noise and very high bandwidth.
craigr | thanks Craig, I'll keep la that in mind and probably come back here begging for help
veelangs wrote: | quick question, i don't need one of these if i'm just trying to get a pc hdmi signal to my ampro 2600 right?
I'd just have to do hdmi from laptop to hdmi/vga box to scaler (dream scaler in my case) bnc out of dream scaler to bnc in on ampro | you should probably start using better descriptions of your video chain or at least post the name of the object. What's an HDMI/VGA box?
If it's a transcoder like a Fury or Moome then that's all you need for a basic picture
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gnnash
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: |
To keep 1:1 pixel mapping for things like 818x1920, be sure to use the 4x3 input aspect ratio. That is the weirdest thing with the HDQ. I forgot that the last time I worked with one (Justin) and it took me a couple hours to sort it all out.
craigr |
Woah! Are you serious??
I still have never been able to get perfect 1:1 on my HDQ with any sort of custom porch settings. No matter what combination of settings or fiddling with size controls on a 1 on, 1 off pattern, I could never get it. I eventually kinda gave up on it, and decided to tackle it again later, but then I lost my green tube.
Can't wait to give this a shot once things are finally back up and running!
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GREG1292
Joined: 10 Oct 2006 Posts: 417 Location: indiana
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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gnnash wrote: | CIR Engineering wrote: |
To keep 1:1 pixel mapping for things like 818x1920, be sure to use the 4x3 input aspect ratio. That is the weirdest thing with the HDQ. I forgot that the last time I worked with one (Justin) and it took me a couple hours to sort it all out.
craigr |
Woah! Are you serious??
I still have never been able to get perfect 1:1 on my HDQ with any sort of custom porch settings. No matter what combination of settings or fiddling with size controls on a 1 on, 1 off pattern, I could never get it. I eventually kinda gave up on it, and decided to tackle it again later, but then I lost my green tube.
Can't wait to give this a shot once things are finally back up and running! |
I'm 99% sure that your input aspect ratio needs to be 4x3. I am also pretty sure that your output aspect has to be 2.35. That is where you start.
Once you have that, then you need to adjust the input size to get exactly 818x1920 (top left and bottom right in the input menu). You do this by looking at vertical and horizontal 1:1 patterns and when the frequency distortions do not exist (banding or resonating are gone) than you know you have 1:1.
On the Radiance all you do is set the input and output aspect ratios to 2.35 and turn off "scale bias" and it's done. On the Radiance you can also look at the status screen and verify that the horizontal and vertical scalers are "off." No such ease on the VisonHDP line, you just have to know what you are doing and that you did it right.
Good luck,
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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veelangs
Joined: 22 Oct 2014 Posts: 59 Location: Chicago
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:22 am Post subject: |
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veelangs wrote: | quick question, i don't need one of these if i'm just trying to get a pc hdmi signal to my ampro 2600 right?
I'd just have to do hdmi from laptop to hdmi/vga box to scaler (dream scaler in my case) bnc out of dream scaler to bnc in on ampro | you should probably start using better descriptions of your video chain or at least post the name of the object. What's an HDMI/VGA box?
If it's a transcoder like a Fury or Moome then that's all you need for a basic picture[/quote]
no it's just one of those basic powered hdmi to vga boxes from amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O55U8K/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003O55U8K&linkCode=as2&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&linkId=76LUCX3ZZ2FIKPAS
The hospital gave it to me to use it on the crt projo (ampro 3xxx) in my lab (I'm a young phys so I get the oldest tech haha, but it made me want one for my home!) and it works just fine there, this is similar pj so I'm assuming it should work here too.
My video chain as follows at work -> thinkpad hdmi to that hdmi/vga box i linked -> vga to wall plug. I know that's not a good description, but I have no clue what type of scaler or processor is in the wall, but i'll ask next time I run into an IT guy.
at home my proposed video chain -> thinkpad hdmi to hdmi/vga box linked -> vga to dream vision dream scaler -> bnc to ampro
so hopefully that works out
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gnnash
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: |
I'm 99% sure that your input aspect ratio needs to be 4x3. I am also pretty sure that your output aspect has to be 2.35. That is where you start.
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Thanks! I've spent hours adjusting TOPL and BOTR to no avail, but I never did try the odd combination of 4x3 input and 2.35 output! I guess I just assumed that the input ratio should match my input signal. Silly me I guess!
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gnnash
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 Posts: 216 Location: Lake Elmo, MN
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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veelangs wrote: |
no it's just one of those basic powered hdmi to vga boxes from amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O55U8K/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003O55U8K&linkCode=as2&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&linkId=76LUCX3ZZ2FIKPAS
The hospital gave it to me to use it on the crt projo (ampro 3xxx) in my lab (I'm a young phys so I get the oldest tech haha, but it made me want one for my home!) and it works just fine there, this is similar pj so I'm assuming it should work here too.
My video chain as follows at work -> thinkpad hdmi to that hdmi/vga box i linked -> vga to wall plug. I know that's not a good description, but I have no clue what type of scaler or processor is in the wall, but i'll ask next time I run into an IT guy.
at home my proposed video chain -> thinkpad hdmi to hdmi/vga box linked -> vga to dream vision dream scaler -> bnc to ampro
so hopefully that works out |
That will probably work fine for your needs, if you aren't extremely worried about color fidelity and such. Hell, for that price, it's certainly worth a shot!
However, it does make specific mention that it is HDCP compliant, so you will need a stripper like the one mentioned in this thread, used before this converter, otherwise any HDCP content will cause the analog output to turn off.
edit: Reading a few of the reviews, it looks like it will display an HDCP protected signal... your mileage may vary though, usually with these cheap Chinese devices, there are several different versions, you might not necessarily get what is pictured, and it might not have the same capabilities.
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veelangs
Joined: 22 Oct 2014 Posts: 59 Location: Chicago
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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gnnash wrote: | veelangs wrote: |
no it's just one of those basic powered hdmi to vga boxes from amazon
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003O55U8K/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B003O55U8K&linkCode=as2&tag=curtpalmecrtp-20&linkId=76LUCX3ZZ2FIKPAS
The hospital gave it to me to use it on the crt projo (ampro 3xxx) in my lab (I'm a young phys so I get the oldest tech haha, but it made me want one for my home!) and it works just fine there, this is similar pj so I'm assuming it should work here too.
My video chain as follows at work -> thinkpad hdmi to that hdmi/vga box i linked -> vga to wall plug. I know that's not a good description, but I have no clue what type of scaler or processor is in the wall, but i'll ask next time I run into an IT guy.
at home my proposed video chain -> thinkpad hdmi to hdmi/vga box linked -> vga to dream vision dream scaler -> bnc to ampro
so hopefully that works out |
That will probably work fine for your needs, if you aren't extremely worried about color fidelity and such. Hell, for that price, it's certainly worth a shot!
However, it does make specific mention that it is HDCP compliant, so you will need a stripper like the one mentioned in this thread, used before this converter, otherwise any HDCP content will cause the analog output to turn off.
edit: Reading a few of the reviews, it looks like it will display an HDCP protected signal... your mileage may vary though, usually with these cheap Chinese devices, there are several different versions, you might not necessarily get what is pictured, and it might not have the same capabilities. |
Yeah I figured if it can display an image on the 3xxx then it should on the 2600 as well!
And it's a 7inch CRT projecting from the floor, I'm obviously not worried about the colors too too much haha
also I just plan on using it with my laptop (no bluray etc) so I don't think hdcp should be a concern for me, but if it ends up being one then I'll definitely get the stripper
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:22 am Post subject: |
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Here is the post and photos from the first stripper I got.
CIR Engineering wrote: | So I haven't used or measured it yet, but I just took it apart. They are using the Explore EP9132 HDMI splitter, ST 8S003F3P6 microcontroller for "HDCP," and the Atmel 2C08N for storing EDID data. The only thing really of interest here is the Atmel because they are easy chips to write with a basic EEPROM programmer and thus can be customized. If you are having trouble with EDID and this splitter it would not be difficult to modify. I used the same chips when I was developing the 3D for CRT to force sources to recognize my CRT as 3D capable.
The solder flow is low quality, but better than I might have guessed for $15.
I'll do some testing in a bit if I have time today. Here are some photos.
craigr |
Just got a couple of these in for a job. As you can see they have changed dramatically, but they are still stripping HDCP according to my QuantumData.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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paw
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1176 Location: Arvada, CO
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 05, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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But do they support 4K (HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2) ? Just joking.
_________________ Aubrey
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Tom.W
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