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nin
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 29
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:04 am Post subject: A good VP for laserdisc? |
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I wonder what video processor is good for laserdisc and VHS to a 9" CRT projector?
I will not use any DVD/bluray, only LD and VHS (+8-bits game).
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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nin
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 29
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Link Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it would be to a 9500LC/ultra or a 909. Only VHS and LD and some retrogame.
So I guess I want something that could do great 960P/72hz and if I use a 909, scale retrogames to 480P.
I want something that will give great deinterlacing and scaling. Maybe great color and gamma control. But not a lot of "picture enhancements". Just a clean image signal.
Crystalio II? Older Lumagen?
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:08 am Post subject: |
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nin wrote: | Well, it would be to a 9500LC/ultra or a 909. Only VHS and LD and some retrogame.
So I guess I want something that could do great 960P/72hz and if I use a 909, scale retrogames to 480P.
I want something that will give great deinterlacing and scaling. Maybe great color and gamma control. But not a lot of "picture enhancements". Just a clean image signal.
Crystalio II? Older Lumagen? |
Hmmm, maybe a V50 processor with a new power supply or any of the Faroudja Video line quadruplers would probably fit the bill here.
I use to run a bunch of these when I still had real cable TV and S-VHS as a source. Before things went digital and everything went to shiye.
_________________ Tech support for nothing
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HD done right!
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garyfritz
Joined: 08 Apr 2006 Posts: 12026 Location: Fort Collins, CO
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:33 am Post subject: |
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kal wrote: | As I mentioned above, I don't think it really matters. A 9500LC/909 is way overkill for such sources. |
No kidding. It's like firing up your McLaren F1 to go to your mailbox at the end of the driveway...
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:02 am Post subject: |
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Well, yes it can be but with a good processor the picture can look pretty damed good
_________________ Tech support for nothing
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HD done right!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, but my point is that with the low quality you'll get out of any of those 480i sources (especially VHS) it really doesn't matter which video processor you use. The difference in VP quality is going to be completely lost. I wouldn't spend much money on a VP if those are the only sources or worry about the quality of scaling. It would be like worrying about the quality of speakers and amps when your only source is AM radio. It just isn't going to matter.
As well, unless you already own the Ehome 9500LC or Barco 909 projector, I wouldn't spend much on the projector either. In fact, a softer 7" ES projector would make more sense as it'll have fatter scanlines and may look perfectly fine without any scaler at all. If you're going retro some scanlines might actually be a good thing and what you're after. On a well set up 9500LC / 909 (9" EM machines) those scanlines will be way too thin and would absolutely require a scaler.
Kal
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Kal , have you ever played with Cable/VHS on a 9" CRT through video processors?
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Faroudja VP400 line quadrupler. I had a VCR, TV cable box and DVD player running into my Ampro 4000.
Faroudja NR series if you can find one unlocked or set to 1440x960. I had one that was set up for 1366x1024 and looked good on my Ampro 4000. It was then used on a JVC S15 DILA. Great difference between that and the built in S-video input. on both projectors.
Faroudja DVP-1000 digital video processor, can do 1440x960. There's a Faroudja VP-1000 on eBay right now for $80
https://www.ebay.com/?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5336656890&toolid=20008&mkevt=1
Manual here:
http://www.curtpalme.com/docs/DVP-1000.pdf
Also tried the VP50, 1440x960 was available, can't remember how it looked.
http://media.onecall.com/Image_Products/DVDO/VP50_DVDO_032807.pdf
Extron processors are pretty good too. The DVS-204 is SD only scaler, the DVS-304 will also scale HD, there's a DVI version available too.
The IN-1508 does a nice job too and supports DVI out too, but I think the Faroudja was a little better but that's me going from memory. DVS-204/304's $25-$50 each, 1508 $35-$80 each.
Try a few, they're cheap.
One last thing, you may need a video stabilizer on the VHS output, I had to do this or the Faroudja's didn't want to sync with the VHS playback even though cable TV off the VCR was fine.
Probably due to Macrovision. So something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5336656890&toolid=20008&mkevt=1
or this
https://www.ebay.com/?mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&siteid=0&campid=5336656890&toolid=20008&mkevt=1
So:
Faroudja VP-100, NRS, VP400
DVDO VP-50
Extron DVS-204, 304, IN-1508
& a
Macrovision box.
EDIT: formatting and added a couple of things
_________________ Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
Last edited by AnalogRocks on Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:40 pm; edited 2 times in total
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Link Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2020 2:36 am Post subject: |
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I have a very particular set of skills....these skills and $3 will buy me a bottle of iced Tea.
_________________ Tech support for nothing
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nin
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 29
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:53 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the suggestion. About what projector there is not much to choice from 2020 in Sweden. I know of a 9500LC/ultra with som MP mods for 500$ in good shape (the same guy have a XG 75 for little less). I know of a ECP 3500 that I can get for free (don't really know of the shape of that one) and I maybe can get a 1209SE. And other is what Curt have for sale.
Yes, VHS, betamax and video 2000 are low resolution (that's why I'm thinking not so big image).
But good Laserdisc (with a Pioneer HLD-X0) can look really nice.
And I'm also thinking about how Playstation 1, 16-bits games will look. Maybe a better projector is good for those for getting sharp and good colors from those games?
Last edited by nin on Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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nin
Joined: 01 Mar 2012 Posts: 29
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:50 am Post subject: |
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XG75's nice too. Just watch out for leaky capacitors if it has been unpowered for a long time. If it has, plug it in. Let it sit, power on, no signal and keep an eye on it. We had a guy a few years back with a NOS Madril(?) I think it was. I believe he powered it up, let it sit for a few days and it worked. It gives the capacators time to re-form.
I have a Panasonic VCR like that. I plug it in and wait a week then the display slowly starts lighting up segment by segment.
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HD done right!
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kal Forum Administrator
Joined: 06 Mar 2006 Posts: 17860 Location: Ottawa, Canada
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Link Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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nin wrote: | And I'm also thinking about how Playstation 1, 16-bits games will look. Maybe a better projector is good for those for getting sharp and good colors from those games? |
"Better" is subjective.
On a projector with colour filtering you'll be able to calibrate it to more accurate colours. Read more here as an example: http://www.curtpalme.com/Changing_C_Elements_Barco1.shtm
Different projectors have different filtering. Some 9" higher end machines do not filter at all in order to increase light output. Some lower end 7" and 8" machines do filter and can have more accurate colours at the cost of light output.
None of the above matters if you don't calibrate the projector to begin with. You can read more about what that means here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457
As for sharpness any CRT projector can accept the low-res 480i signal from the sources you mention. A higher end machine will indeed have sharper (and thinner) scan lines so you'd need to scale up more if you want those to not be visible.
Higher end projectors will have faster electronics so slew rates will be higher too, meaning that the beam on/off time can be faster resulting in sharper horiz resolution.
A higher end projector will have EM focusing instead of ES so again sharper.
Given your sources sharpness isn't really something that should be forefront in your concerns (in my humble opinion).
A higher end projector will have 9" tubes instead of 7" and 8" which means more light output. Scaling up such that the scanlines just touch will also maximize your light output. The bigger tubes also have more surface area to produce higher resolution easier (higher rez isn't something you really care about here given your sources).
A higher end projector may be newer which means it may be more stable too (less convergence drift).
Take a look here for projector rankings and more explanation about the above: http://www.curtpalme.com/Projector_Rankings.shtm
Kal
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