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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:25 am Post subject: New 04/2013 Radiance firmware |
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Anyone try it?
http://www.lumagen.com/testindex.php?module=radiancemini_updates
Production 040213- Fix for YCbCr (422 or 444) output precision issue. Improved scaling. Fix for video momentarily blanking output with 3D video from some sources. Fix for interlaced vrate calcualtion in custom timing menu. Some other small fixes.
_________________ AVStefan
HDFury3 -> BG-808s -> HD-145
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:02 am Post subject: Re: New 04/2013 Radiance firmware |
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AVphile wrote: | Fix for interlaced vrate calcualtion in custom timing menu. |
Great ! I'll try that tonight
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stridsvognen Guest
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'm using.. It fixed the banding issue with 422 and 444 color Space out.
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm using it now too, and it was a painless upgrade.
The only problem I was having before was the odd HDCP error message requiring reboot. I figured that was due to the nature of the HDFury on its output. I can only hope that was fixed.
_________________ AVStefan
HDFury3 -> BG-808s -> HD-145
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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I am very disappointed: the 1808i@96 like the 1080i@72 still do not work and the Lumagen outputs 1080i@60 instead
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Confirmed
The interlaced vrate calcualtion that they say is fixed seems to be off a bit now.
_________________ AVStefan
HDFury3 -> BG-808s -> HD-145
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:41 am Post subject: |
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AVphile wrote: | Confirmed
The interlaced vrate calcualtion that they say is fixed seems to be off a bit now. |
What do you mean by "be off a bit now" ?
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:59 am Post subject: |
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Patrick from Lumagen told me that he had 1080i@72 outputting on his monitor correctly.
So I really don't know what were are doing wrong
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Ask him what timing he used?
I took the stock 60i timing and changed vrate to 71.928. Using this calc: 2200 x 540 x 71.928 = 88931779.
But when I put that vrate into the Radiance it comes up with 85xxxxxx (something) which is why I said the vrate is off a bit now. If I manually enter both vrate and 88931779 it still doesn't work.
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Well, he said to select 1080i@60 and then go to timings and change only the clock value to 88931779 (or something).
He also said to check with no input signal.
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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I read again the mail and give a clock = 89010989.
Try also with source unplugged
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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AVphile wrote: | Ask him what timing he used?
I took the stock 60i timing and changed vrate to 71.928. Using this calc: 2200 x 540 x 71.928 = 88931779.
But when I put that vrate into the Radiance it comes up with 85xxxxxx (something) which is why I said the vrate is off a bit now. If I manually enter both vrate and 88931779 it still doesn't work. |
I just tried 1080i 72Hz on my G90 and it works 100% correctly. You guys are doing a few things wrong. Both the Lumagen and G90 show 72Hz with 1080i.
First of all, you can't manually enter the Vrate. Vrate in the Radiance is a function of the clock and is derived directly from it. The Vrate value in the timings table is only a display of the calculated value from the clock and is not directly adjustable. Vrate changes automatically when you change the clock value.
"2200 x 540 x 71.928" is not the correct formula because 540 is not your Vtotal, it is your Vactive. You need to multiply your Vt and Ht and the clock rate. For stock 1080i timings the equation is:
562 x 2200 x (72/1.001) = 88931868
Just download my clock calculator which I have linked to several times and input your values for Vt and Ht:
http://www.cir-engineering.com/bin/clock_calc.xls
All you have to do is go into the Radiance modes menu and select 1080i 60Hz. The projector will then switch to 1080i 59.94Hz. Go into the timings menu for the 1080i that you just set up. Set the clock to 88931868. Select "test" and the projector will switch to 1080i 72Hz. Confirm the resolution and save the changes to the Radiance.
Patric and Lumagen just went out of their way to fix a resolution that none but the two of you in the world are using. Please recognize that the level of customer service demonstrated is truly first rate in addressing your problems. All Lumagen can do is fix problems and make their product work
craigr
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Corleone88
Joined: 09 Dec 2006 Posts: 443 Location: France
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Craig, don't misunderstand me, but I really appreciate what Lumagen has done for customers (by the way, I am happy to know that we are only two in the world to output 1080i@72 or 96 on the Radiance ).
I am going to have another go, but I am surprised that I can manage to do it on the HDQ and not on the Radiance. Maybe there is another option to set. Rate match for exemple ?
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot Craig.
I did try it both ways, but I will try it again just like you say. Sorry I wrote 540 but actually used 562 in my calc.
CIR Engineering wrote: | First of all, you can't manually enter the Vrate. Vrate in the Radiance is a function of the clock and is derived directly from it. The Vrate value in the timings table is only a display of the calculated value from the clock and is not directly adjustable. Vrate changes automatically when you change the clock value. |
Actually the UI does allow you to enter a value in the Vrate field, so they should make it READ ONLY if it doesn't work like that.
Lumagen stated that 1080i72 was supported, but then ignored my e-mail when I told them it wasn't working. So if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know there was a fix available!
Last edited by AVphile on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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AVphile wrote: | Thanks a lot Craig.
I did try it both ways, but I will try it again just like you say. Sorry I wrote 540 but actually used 562 in my calc.
CIR Engineering wrote: | First of all, you can't manually enter the Vrate. Vrate in the Radiance is a function of the clock and is derived directly from it. The Vrate value in the timings table is only a display of the calculated value from the clock and is not directly adjustable. Vrate changes automatically when you change the clock value. |
Actually the UI does allow you to enter a value in the Vrate field, so they should make it READ ONLY if it doesn't work like that.
Lumagen ignored my e-mail, so if it wasn't for this forum I wouldn't even know there was a fix available! |
WOW, interesting. I was about to reply to you that what you are saying isn't possible because it never was in the past. However, I went down to my Radiance and tried changing the clock, and sure enough I was able to enter a clock rate directly.
However, the clock rate that I entered did something to the Lumagen, but it didn't set the clock. I changed my 1080p 59.94 to 71.93Hz and I got a really screwed up picture on my screen. I will call Pat today and find out what is up with this. I suspect that you are not supposed to be able to overwrite the clock field and that this is a bug.
Don't set your Vrate because this isn't how it's done, only use the clock setting and the Vrate will automatically be correct if you use the right clock frequency.
I'll try 1080i 96Hz later if you want me to? I suspect it works fine now as when Pat says something is fixed 99.9999999% of the time he nailed the problem and it is fixed. He is a very thorough engineer.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
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www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah doing that is causing problems because something else changed by itself: Ht jumped from 2200 to 2190 and the clock changed to some other value.
By the way, Jim Peters originally told me that 1080i72 should still be supported by the Radiance, so this truly is a bug fix.
I agree that 1080i96 would be an enhancement, if it actually is supported now, which I doubt.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Corleone88 wrote: | Craig, don't misunderstand me, but I really appreciate what Lumagen has done for customers (by the way, I am happy to know that we are only two in the world to output 1080i@72 or 96 on the Radiance ).
I am going to have another go, but I am surprised that I can manage to do it on the HDQ and not on the Radiance. Maybe there is another option to set. Rate match for exemple ? |
Custom resolutions were easier to setup in the Vision line because you entered the Vrate directly and didn't have to worry about the clock frequency. Also there was a bug in the Radiance that didn't allow 1080i 72Hz or 96Hz so no wonder you had trouble. But it's fixed now so it will work and I have verified 1080i 72Hz.
Rate match will not solve problems but it is a nice feature. What rate match does is that when the input and output frame rates are very close multiples of one another (like 23.98Hz and 71.92807Hz in and out), the Lumagen will simply exactly match the input frame rate to the output multiple so that there will never be ANY dropped frames. This is really nice and matches up well with Genlock too. For BD sources you should try running with both rate match and genlock turned on for the best possible picture.
Genlock needs very high quality sources though and should only be used on blyray players, media servers that are known good, HTPC's that are known good, and maybe DVD players with DVI or HDMI. If genlock is enabled on lower quality sources live cable or sat (or anything analog) all sorts of strange things can happen
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
Last edited by CIR Engineering on Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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CIR Engineering wrote: | I'll try 1080i 96Hz later if you want me to? I suspect it works fine now as when Pat says something is fixed 99.9999999% of the time he nailed the problem and it is fixed. He is a very thorough engineer. |
Good to hear... well, maybe he threw in 96Hz too for good measure. I wouldn't push for that too hard though, as the boss said they are only promising 72Hz and we don't want Patrick to get in trouble
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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I just talked to Pat.
Usually after a major update like this FW was, more firmwares will follow to fix bugs in the new release. Indeed a new update will be posted soon followed by more. The new update coming will address several bugs including HDCP issues, a purple screen issue, and some analog input bugs. This last major update integrated code with the new 2021 processor so it was a highly complicated release for Pat.
Regarding Vrate; Pat did intend to make it possible to adjust the Vrate directly in the menu and he opened it intentionally. However, Pat and I discussed this at length and the implementation is strange and counter intuitive to CRT applications. Basically, when you change the Vrate the clock does not change to match it, instead Vt and Ht are adjusted to make the clock fit with the Vrate. So obviously the resolutions are changed when Vrate is adjusted directly which is counter to what you are trying to do with custom resolutions on CRT. Do not use the Vrate setting with CRT, only use the clock setting!!!
The first FW release following the major update will not include a change to the Vrate setting parameter. However, two releases from now Pat intends to again remove the ability to adjust Vrate directly. Instead, when you click on Vrate an equation to calculate the clock rate will appear on screen and explain that you need to set the clock to adjust Vrate. Hopefully this will end the confusion
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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AVphile
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 331 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
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Link Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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Excellent! Your contribution is much appreciated, craigr.
_________________ AVStefan
HDFury3 -> BG-808s -> HD-145
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