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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 252 Location: eden prairie mn
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:00 am Post subject: Sharp 80" Tv |
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Looked at a Sharp 80" tv at Best Buy.
Was surprised they're also trying to sell me a $250 calibration with the set? And a $200 hookup fee?? Is that needed?
Is that really needed to have a great picture? IMO should be included in the price. Seems nuts to spend $3500 and extra to get it calibrated
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24305 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Well, look at it two or three ways:
1) Most sets out of the box are not properly color calibrated if you're talking a color spectrum that's supposed to be accurate. So you need a colorimeter to properly set the colors. Does Best Buy have ISF certified guys? Who knows, but I'd ask. If they don't use a colorimeter to set the hidden internal menus, then to me it's not worth the $200.
2) Most people won't know the difference between a calibrated and an out of the box set. Once you see a properly ISFed set, then chances are you will see the difference, but to the layman, it is indeed wasted money.
3) As for the hookup, guaranteed that BB makes more money on upselling the $100 HDMI Cables than they are making on the set itself. Now, spending $200 to get a pro to wall mount a set is well worth it, as the $3500 price tag is on them if they drop it... if that $200 includes installation on a wall. If you're table mounting it, then do it yourself. If you know what you're doing with cables, then buy some generic cables and forget hiring BB to do it.
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2857 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:11 am Post subject: Re: Sharp 80" Tv |
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larryp wrote: | Looked at a Sharp 80" tv at Best Buy.
Was surprised they're also trying to sell me a $250 calibration with the set? And a $200 hookup fee?? Is that needed?
Is that really needed to have a great picture? IMO should be included in the price. Seems nuts to spend $3500 and extra to get it calibrated |
My God how do you get an 80" set for $3500. You guys have toooooo good.
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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Larry,
TVs are set to look bright and colorful in the store, not to display an accurate image. Calibration is a form of optimization, ensuring the TV is as close to standards as possible with regard to primaries, gamut, gamma, and grayscale linearity. The process requires expensive equipment and a very specialized skill set, so $250 is not out of line at all for a professional calibration. Now, whether Best Buy is or is not a good choice for a calibrator is a different question. I would ask whether they have ISF-trained technicians, whether they have a colorimeter, and whether they generate any kind report on the TVs performance.
As for the $200 connection fee, I would assume that's 'white glove delivery', meaning a couple of guys show up with the set and unbox it (no small feat with an 80" set), set it up on a stand or table, connect your sources, and take away the giant box. If you don't like the price, you can do all that yourself and save the $200. I would assume that's not wall-mounting; the mount alone (at retail) would be $100+. As Curt mentioned, TVs are cut-throat, and margins have all but evaporated on all but the very largest TVs.
Like Curt, I would assume that Best Buy is probably making less on the $3500 TV sale than they would the ISF calibration or the installation. The margins are so bad, they basically have to do installations, mounts, cables, and service plans. Everybody laughs at them, but it's really the only way they can make money any more. There's better profit in the service plans on TVs than there are the TVs themselves. The margins have gotten so bad, many professional installers don't even sell TVs anymore; instead, they just have their customers buy a TV at Best Buy, and the installer hangs it for the customer as part of a larger install.
You know things are messed up when, as a professional installer, your customer can buy a Samsung, LG, or Panasonic TV cheaper from Amazon than you can as a dealer reseller.
SC
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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 252 Location: eden prairie mn
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Sharp 80" Tv |
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Best price I've seen is $3185 online with free shipping & a wall mount.
km987654 wrote: | larryp wrote: | Looked at a Sharp 80" tv at Best Buy.
Was surprised they're also trying to sell me a $250 calibration with the set? And a $200 hookup fee?? Is that needed?
Is that really needed to have a great picture? IMO should be included in the price. Seems nuts to spend $3500 and extra to get it calibrated |
My God how do you get an 80" set for $3500. You guys have toooooo good. |
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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 252 Location: eden prairie mn
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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Thank You everyone for the information. I looked at Best Buy's website, their calibration people got a lot of negative reviews. Site says they're ISF certified to.
The installation seems ok in price since I'd have it wall mounted. This would be a second tv for the basement, my sony 1272 is still my main unit.
ecrabb wrote: | Larry,
TVs are set to look bright and colorful in the store, not to display an accurate image. Calibration is a form of optimization, ensuring the TV is as close to standards as possible with regard to primaries, gamut, gamma, and grayscale linearity. The process requires expensive equipment and a very specialized skill set, so $250 is not out of line at all for a professional calibration. Now, whether Best Buy is or is not a good choice for a calibrator is a different question. I would ask whether they have ISF-trained technicians, whether they have a colorimeter, and whether they generate any kind report on the TVs performance.
As for the $200 connection fee, I would assume that's 'white glove delivery', meaning a couple of guys show up with the set and unbox it (no small feat with an 80" set), set it up on a stand or table, connect your sources, and take away the giant box. If you don't like the price, you can do all that yourself and save the $200. I would assume that's not wall-mounting; the mount alone (at retail) would be $100+. As Curt mentioned, TVs are cut-throat, and margins have all but evaporated on all but the very largest TVs.
Like Curt, I would assume that Best Buy is probably making less on the $3500 TV sale than they would the ISF calibration or the installation. The margins are so bad, they basically have to do installations, mounts, cables, and service plans. Everybody laughs at them, but it's really the only way they can make money any more. There's better profit in the service plans on TVs than there are the TVs themselves. The margins have gotten so bad, many professional installers don't even sell TVs anymore; instead, they just have their customers buy a TV at Best Buy, and the installer hangs it for the customer as part of a larger install.
You know things are messed up when, as a professional installer, your customer can buy a Samsung, LG, or Panasonic TV cheaper from Amazon than you can as a dealer reseller.
SC |
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24305 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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that is pretty impressive!
I'm curious though how many will be thrown out within 5 years due to bad panels? Seems the larger the panel, the more likely they are to delaminate, causing a dark picture of weird colors...
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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larryp wrote: | Thank You everyone for the information. I looked at Best Buy's website, their calibration people got a lot of negative reviews. Site says they're ISF certified to. |
Then, I would look elsewhere for calibration. For a secondary or non-critical set, I'd probably skip the calibration altogether. There are often threads on AVS and elsewhere where people have gone through the menus, sometimes with measurement equipment, and found the best settings for the set. It won't be perfect since you have to measure each individual set, but it will get you in the ballpark, and is usually quite adequate for TV and light movie-watching; much, much better than the "out of the box" settings.
larryp wrote: | The installation seems ok in price since I'd have it wall mounted. This would be a second tv for the basement, my sony 1272 is still my main unit. |
If you get the set, I'll be interested in what you think. The 1272 is really pretty soft for HD sources. Going from 1271 to G70 revealed a lot of missing detail in the image. Moving to the JVC RS45 was about that same step again in terms of 1080p full resolution.
One thing I don't like about large LCDs is they're actually TOO revealing, making satellite or cable look like the total crap that it is. 8" CRT like G70, with just a bit of softness, hides it pretty nicely. My JVC is somewhere between.
SC
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24305 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Let me play devil's advocate though on the calibration. My guess is that the unwashed masses may not actually like a properly calibrated set. I guess it really depends on the calibrator, right?
I've shown MANY people how a straight-out-of-the-box set is wayyy out of calibration, simply with the color saturation level. For people that have been used to Technioolor faces (why do people in HD snow scenes look like they've been tanning in Hawaii for 6 months?), they may find an accurate color level washed out.
However, I'm also skeptical of a $200 ISF job. If the calibrator were any good, he wouldn't be working for BEst Buy.
Someone like Craig really needs to chime in here. He's fully qualified, but won't do a $200 calibration job.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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I've calibrated quite a few of these sets and they benefit tremendously from calibration. These are some of the worst sets I have ever seen out of the box. Even laymen can see it. My Aunt and Uncle bought one of these and the two of them are far from videophiles and could usually care less. The two of them couldn't wait for me to get to their house to "fix" their TV and actually make it watchable. I had low expectations, but I was surprised how well the set came out after I calibrated it. It really was pretty nice.
BestBuy is not really a good choice for calibration as you have found in your research. You do get what you pay for in calibration services. Locally, I charge 2x what BB charges because I have actual skill and knowledge, a research lab grade spectroradiometter, a lab grade colorimeter, and professional software that generates a before and after report. I also support my clients long after the calibration services.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
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ecrabb Forum Moderator
Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 15909 Location: Utah
TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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Craig, not to dissuade anybody from using your services, because I personally think calibration is well worth it... But, for a lot of these sets, isn't just setting the color temp, brightness/contrast, saturation, etc. make a huge improvement? I realize that won't change primaries, or fix gamma or grayscale tracking, but I've found it's usually pretty easy to make the set look much better than it does out of the box, by eye, just with basic/advanced controls.
SC
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larryp
Joined: 24 Jan 2012 Posts: 252 Location: eden prairie mn
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I never buy extended warranties, but after what's been said about this item, should I look into getting one?
Never owned a flat screen of this size.
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CIR Engineering
Joined: 25 Aug 2008 Posts: 4264 Location: Chicago USA & Berlin Germany
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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ecrabb wrote: | Craig, not to dissuade anybody from using your services, because I personally think calibration is well worth it... But, for a lot of these sets, isn't just setting the color temp, brightness/contrast, saturation, etc. make a huge improvement? I realize that won't change primaries, or fix gamma or grayscale tracking, but I've found it's usually pretty easy to make the set look much better than it does out of the box, by eye, just with basic/advanced controls.
SC |
Absolutely. If you are knowledgeable you can make huge improvements with the user controls especially with the help of a test disc like AVIA or DVE.
This particular set has a problem in that even the warmest color temp has far too much blue in it. To really get anywhere with these you need to set the grayscale and that does require some tools.
craigr
_________________ *NEW JETI 1501-HiRes 2nm Spectroradiometer
JETI 1211 Spectroradiometer
Photo Research PR-650 Spectroradiometer
Klein K10-A Colorimeter
X-Rite i1Pro2 Spectroradiometer & Spyder Colorimeters *For JVC auto-calibration when Klein & Jeti are not applicable
Murideo Fresco SIX-G HDMI 2.x Multimedia Generator
Murideo Fresco SIX-A HDMI 2.x Analyzer
*NEW Light Illusion ColourSpace XPT Version β Color Calibration Software
Light Illusion LightSpace XPT Pro Version 10.x Color Calibration Software
*NEW OMARDRIS JVC Software Patch to use K10-A and Jeti with JVC OEM AutoCal Software!
Sencore CR7000 CRT Tube Analyzer / Rejuvenater
Authorized Dealer for Lumagen & just about everything worth buying
www.CIR-Engineering.com - craigr@cir-engineering.com
Phone: 865-405-6892
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24305 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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larryp wrote: | I never buy extended warranties, but after what's been said about this item, should I look into getting one?
Never owned a flat screen of this size. |
Not unless they offer warranties 4-6 years after purchase, which they won't. Typically, if electronics doesn't fail in the first 100 hours due to manufacturing defects, then they die 4-6 years after purchase. Extended warranties only cover 2-3 years after the purchase price, and very little fails in that time period.
I know very little about the new Sharp sets, but expect about a 5 year life span out of it. That's typical of a lot of flat screens. Does that make you re-evaluate spending $3500?
(and yes, I think my life expectancy is accurate, they won't tell you that at the stores).
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 832 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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Curt Palme wrote: | larryp wrote: | I never buy extended warranties, but after what's been said about this item, should I look into getting one?
Never owned a flat screen of this size. |
Not unless they offer warranties 4-6 years after purchase, which they won't. Typically, if electronics doesn't fail in the first 100 hours due to manufacturing defects, then they die 4-6 years after purchase. Extended warranties only cover 2-3 years after the purchase price, and very little fails in that time period.
I know very little about the new Sharp sets, but expect about a 5 year life span out of it. That's typical of a lot of flat screens. Does that make you re-evaluate spending $3500?
(and yes, I think my life expectancy is accurate, they won't tell you that at the stores). |
Costco give a 2 year warrantee and you can get an additional 3 more years for a total of 5 for $100.
http://www.costco.com/3-Years-%28For-TVs-Over-%241%2c000%29.product.11680336.html
They sell that 80" Sharp for $3500 shipped.
http://www.costco.com/.product.980632.html
Chris.
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24305 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, really! Goes to show what I know.
Frankly, for $100, I'd probably buy it if I were getting the set. I'd read the fine print though. What if the set's LCD panel fails at 4.5 years, and it's no longer available? Will they replace the set?
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nuttall_chris
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 832 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
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Curt Palme CRT Tech
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 24305 Location: Langley, BC
TV/Projector: All of them!
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Link Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well, the only catch is, they offered 'extended warranties' on my CRT projector sales for a long time too, and they said to take the set to any local TV shop, which of course is crap. Haven't gotten any emails from them in a long time, so I assume their connection with eBay is long gone?
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CasetheCorvetteman
Joined: 09 Nov 2008 Posts: 6319 Location: Australia
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 2:33 am Post subject: Re: Sharp 80" Tv |
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km987654 wrote: |
My God how do you get an 80" set for $3500. You guys have toooooo good. |
Youre kidding me arent ya? You can get one for that here too....
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km987654
Joined: 25 Jul 2007 Posts: 2857 Location: Australia
TV/Projector: Barco BG809s
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Link Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Sharp 80" Tv |
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CasetheCorvetteman wrote: | km987654 wrote: |
My God how do you get an 80" set for $3500. You guys have toooooo good. |
Youre kidding me arent ya? You can get one for that here too.... |
I have seen 70" at that price but not 80". Where have you seen them at this price?
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