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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016 Posts: 512
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Jeremy112 wrote: | redfox001 wrote: | Personally I find that black and blacklevels (and not contrast) can not be overrated. Might be true that JVC now makes absolute black by closing the iris but that is just not the same This picture from the calibration section on Curt's shows how our vision is much more sensitive to low level light than it is to high level light. It is the opposite of the famous gamma correction curve of course.
"We have already perceived 50% of the difference between black and peak output when only approximately 18% of the stimulus is received."
That is why a movie in the dark is just more fun and visible
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22002 |
There's far more to video than how great the blacks or contrast is. The only major benefit of CRT these days, is that it costs less than laser based projectors. |
And motion clarity is generally better on crt. If you're a gamer it's great for that. Though the cruel irony is that projection tubes are more suspect to burn in from a video game than traditional three-gun tubes, so you have to be VERY careful.
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | I talked about lamp based projectors |
Even them, check the VW285ES or VW385ES out.
_________________ When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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jbltecnicspro wrote: | Jeremy112 wrote: | redfox001 wrote: | Personally I find that black and blacklevels (and not contrast) can not be overrated. Might be true that JVC now makes absolute black by closing the iris but that is just not the same This picture from the calibration section on Curt's shows how our vision is much more sensitive to low level light than it is to high level light. It is the opposite of the famous gamma correction curve of course.
"We have already perceived 50% of the difference between black and peak output when only approximately 18% of the stimulus is received."
That is why a movie in the dark is just more fun and visible
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22002 |
There's far more to video than how great the blacks or contrast is. The only major benefit of CRT these days, is that it costs less than laser based projectors. |
And motion clarity is generally better on crt. If you're a gamer it's great for that. Though the cruel irony is that projection tubes are more suspect to burn in from a video game than traditional three-gun tubes, so you have to be VERY careful. |
Motion clarity is better on CRT compared to most entry level digitals, but there are some professional units and high end HT digitals that come extremely close.
_________________ When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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ElTopo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006 Posts: 1608
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Sony wins in comparison to JVC
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016 Posts: 512
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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ElTopo wrote: | Sony wins in comparison to JVC |
In terms of motion clarity? What are you talking about exactly?
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Pzyked
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 Posts: 30 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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jbltecnicspro wrote: | ElTopo wrote: | Sony wins in comparison to JVC |
In terms of motion clarity? What are you talking about exactly? |
Talking about input lag for gaming I guess. CRTs are great there.
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Yeah laser projectors. Smoke your eyes with monochrome blue.
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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Jeremy112
Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 2645 Location: Fond du Lac, WI
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:46 am Post subject: |
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redfox001 wrote: | Yeah laser projectors. Smoke your eyes with monochrome blue. |
There are non-phosphor laser based projectors too, not just ones that use a phosphor wheel to change the color of the laser.
_________________ When I'm asking for a Model number, that doesn't mean I'm asking for a nude photo with your number on it
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 305 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Motion clarity is better on CRT compared to most entry level digitals, but there are some professional units and high end HT digitals that come extremely close. |
That's true but you'll need a big budget say around 3-4K for a Sony or JVC. Also calculate investing in 8-10 bulbs as lifetime of UHP bulbs are short. And even then the motion on a CRT is just very natural and smooth. I run my 919 at 1080P 72hz for 24hz films and 1080p 60hz. Colors are spot on within Rec709 and with Gamma slope adjustments you can calibrate also blue on a 909 very accurate.
I have seen all today's digitals, JVC's X5900 to 20ltd I have here, and Z1. Also the Sony's VW550's even the VW760 and VW5000.
I admit they all have features that CRT technology doesn't have. Most important one is light. they throw out a lot of light and with the right technique they have very good ansi contrast as well. Resulting in a very nice punchy picture. Also resolution and deep colors (HDR) is a advantage on a digital. I always find the picture on high-end digitals like top of the line JVC's and Sony's incl. laser very impressive. It's always the Wow factor. But sometimes after watching a long movie I get tired of the intensity of the projector. The sharpness (high resolution, sitting close by to enable experiencing 4K) high light output, saturated colors, digital improvements like movement. On my Barco I never have this, I can binge watch a serie without getting tired. CRT is still very natural movie watching, most filmlike. Consider, if you have technical skills for CRT pj, a batcave and the room to install such a beast it is still very good bang for the buck for some years to enjoy.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2790 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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From this response it looks to me you should not sell the Barco, even if you couldn't setup in your remodelled theatre. A split pack is still easier to setup than a conventional CRT so you may never know what the tomorrow brings...
_________________ projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 305 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Hahaha Gjaky, you are probably right. I can always stash it on my attic, one part is already there
_________________ Philips vacuum cleaner | Trystar double toaster | Car radio with orange plastic memory arrows | Class A Fridge
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Pzyked
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 Posts: 30 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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8-10 bulbs wow I have never changed one bulb. One bulb about 2000-5000 hours. The Sony Ruby lasted for 500 hours if you wanted some light left, have owned this. But that is ages ago.
But today you have lamp warranty so lifetime no issue at all. If you don't marry your CRT and live with it for 24 hours a day.
Also the intensity is just to adjust down the light output so no issue. CRTs are softer, because of less resolution.
And can be very nice to watch, but cant compare to a 4K Sony overall. And yes prices dropped drastically on crt, and lucky if you even sell it, so 500-1000USD you get much CRT.
Motion resolution and input lag is better on crt, where do you need that watching blueray 24 frames? Minor difference.
Then if you have newer digitals.
All better digital scan 72hz or 96hz for 24hz films natural and automatic correct.
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Pzyked
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 Posts: 30 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Pzyked wrote: | 8-10 bulbs wow I have never changed one bulb. One bulb about 2000-5000 hours. The Sony Ruby lasted for 500 hours if you wanted some light left, have owned this. But that is ages ago.
But today you have lamp warranty so lifetime no issue at all. If you don't marry your CRT and live with it for 24 hours a day.
Also the intensity is just to adjust down the light output so no issue. CRTs are softer, because of less resolution.
And can be very nice to watch, but cant compare to a 4K Sony overall. And yes prices dropped drastically on crt, and lucky if you even sell it, so 500-1000USD you get much CRT. But Franciscos CRT has a lot of great mods and tubes, so might be different.
Motion resolution and input lag is better on crt, where do you need that watching blueray 24 frames? Minor difference.
Then if you have newer digitals.
All better digital scan 72hz or 96hz for 24hz films natural and automatic correct. |
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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redfox001
Joined: 16 Mar 2009 Posts: 2251 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Francisco wrote: | But sometimes after watching a long movie I get tired of the intensity of the projector. The sharpness (high resolution, sitting close by to enable experiencing 4K) high light output, saturated colors, digital improvements like movement. On my Barco I never have this, I can binge watch a serie without getting tired. |
Also my experience.
I had a Sony qled UHD television that was almost unwatchable making me tired. Now I have the Pioneer kuro 60 inch 1080p that is a joy to watch again. I might consider storing my crt for this plasma
_________________ 701s->runco933->8500ultra->hd1->hd350->vw100->cinemax+919sp+3x919+9500mp->cinemax+919sp(modded)+kuro600a
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Francisco
Joined: 05 Apr 2007 Posts: 305 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | CRTs are softer, because of less resolution.
And can be very nice to watch, but cant compare to a 4K Sony overall. |
Don't get me wrong I totally agree, you can't compare and that also not my intention. It's just what I like about CRT. What I do like about digital UHP, laser etc. is exactly what CRT doesn't have. A lot of punch, sharpness, light, however I can get tired of it as well. So it's a bit of an oxymoron. This is all my personal experience with it.
About lifetime of UHP lamps I maybe exaggerate a bit but with 500-600hrs of use, they do drop quite a bit of bite in the image. Laser for example is far more stable during it's lifetime.
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Pzyked
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 Posts: 30 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Francisco wrote: | Quote: | CRTs are softer, because of less resolution.
And can be very nice to watch, but cant compare to a 4K Sony overall. |
Don't get me wrong I totally agree, you can't compare and that also not my intention. It's just what I like about CRT. What I do like about digital UHP, laser etc. is exactly what CRT doesn't have. A lot of punch, sharpness, light, however I can get tired of it as well. So it's a bit of an oxymoron. This is all my personal experience with it.
About lifetime of UHP lamps I maybe exaggerate a bit but with 500-600hrs of use, they do drop quite a bit of bite in the image. Laser for example is far more stable during it's lifetime. |
About bulb you are some "incorrect". Dila almost no drop or change. SXRD some drop. But minor, because you have so much light, and this can be adjusted down.
Digitals will always be more correct after what I have seen both with color and gamma even after 1000 hours. Or even 2000 hours for that matter.
I know people with JVCs that have over 17000 hours runtime, and changed bulb around 2000-2500 hours and measures still perfect . I agree with you "can't compare" CRT with a Sony 4K or JVC Dila. Two different dimensions, both in picture and experience. For me I will remember my 9 inch, but also know that time have moved on, and be happy with what I have now.
The Eiseman simulator tubes have seen it,
Have seen both the latest new lugs and new Eiseman lug, and cant say I see much difference.
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gjaky
Joined: 05 Jun 2010 Posts: 2790 Location: Budapest, Hungary
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: |
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I think this is also a matter of preference. I have a friend who is an avid DLP fan, he has a fine collection of top end DPI, Projection design and Barco 1 and 3 chip projectors. He checked out the VW5000 as well and he did not like it either, he complained about uneven colour response and poor MTF. But for example this guy is an MTF nut, and not interested in the on/off contrast at all
_________________ projectors in the past : NEC 6-9PG xtra, Electrohome Marquee 6-7500, NEC XG 1351 LC ( with super modified Electrohome VNB neckboard !!!)
current: VDC Marquee 9500LC
The MOD: VNB-DB, VIM-DB
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Pzyked
Joined: 02 Apr 2017 Posts: 30 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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gjaky wrote: | I think this is also a matter of preference. I have a friend who is an avid DLP fan, he has a fine collection of top end DPI, Projection design and Barco 1 and 3 chip projectors. He checked out the VW5000 as well and he did not like it either, he complained about uneven colour response and poor MTF. But for example this guy is an MTF nut, and not interested in the on/off contrast at all |
Totally agree.
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jbltecnicspro
Joined: 23 Apr 2016 Posts: 512
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Link Posted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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gjaky wrote: | I think this is also a matter of preference. I have a friend who is an avid DLP fan, he has a fine collection of top end DPI, Projection design and Barco 1 and 3 chip projectors. He checked out the VW5000 as well and he did not like it either, he complained about uneven colour response and poor MTF. But for example this guy is an MTF nut, and not interested in the on/off contrast at all |
Wow. Never thought I'd see the day when someone would take MTF over contrast. I always assumed that those who poopoo on/off contrast haven't seen a projector with proper on/off and didn't know what they were missing out on.
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