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My new JVC digital projector (DLA-X75R/DLA-RS56)
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Spanky Ham




Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 5643
Location: Comedy Central


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


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Gary,
I agree with the pumping, but I think that is a lot more noticeable on very low cr pjs. With JVCs new pj, a good DI should be a lot less noticeable with high native cr. I believe the guys that have already received theirs have confirmed this. As Crabb said, if you don't like it then turn it off. With the JVC, you still get 30k to 1 on/off cr. Darin used to always say the same thing and that a DI was just a cherry on top. I would have loved to have seen Darin's face when he found out that JVC decided to put a DI on the new models. He had been telling for years how it would improve their pjs and now they went and did it.
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phillyguy83




Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 47
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal, how do DVDs look when upscaled into your PJ? Do you notice many artifacts? I ask because one of the reasons I like my CRT so much is that I can scale to 720p instead of being forced to throw a 1080p picture, and if the DVD's bitrate is high enough, the picture looks really nice--no artifacts. I'm interested to know how digital compares.
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DVDs (480i sources) look no different on my previous CRT as compared to my current digital. In other words, both look soft, very lacking in detail. Also lacking in colour depth.

Upscaling is an extremely simple/well understood algorithm which in both cases was performed by my PS3. I'm not sure what artifacts you refer to - maybe some of the very early scalers would introduce issues, but for at least 5-8+ years now any cheap source with a built-in scaler will give adequate scaling.

Doesn't matter if you're scaling to 720p or 1080p. The result looks identical.

Sticking to CRT because of how DVD looks (IMHO) doesn't make any sense. There's nothing about CRT that makes DVD look better than digital.

Kal

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phillyguy83




Joined: 28 Nov 2012
Posts: 47
Location: Colorado


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply. I should clarify that I like my CRT for many more reasons than how DVDs look; it's just one of the reasons I like it.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
DVDs (480i sources) look no different on my previous CRT as compared to my current digital. In other words, both look soft, very lacking in detail. Also lacking in colour depth.

Upscaling is an extremely simple/well understood algorithm which in both cases was performed by my PS3. I'm not sure what artifacts you refer to - maybe some of the very early scalers would introduce issues, but for at least 5-8+ years now any cheap source with a built-in scaler will give adequate scaling.

Doesn't matter if you're scaling to 720p or 1080p. The result looks identical.

Sticking to CRT because of how DVD looks (IMHO) doesn't make any sense. There's nothing about CRT that makes DVD look better than digital.

Kal


Ahh Kal.. Are you not making scaling and deinterlacing more simple than it is.?

One thing is that you might not notice a difference just using a PS3, ill say i find a lot of difference how scaling and deinterlacing on the latest chipsets and algorithm look like.

I dont seem to be able to find 2 different chip, or 2 different algorithm that look the same.

Try compare HQV to ABT deinterlacing, and Lumagen to DVDO scaling, and mix different deinterlacers with differnt scalers, and you will se quite different results and artifacts showing up or not.

And also the different ways Digital VS CRT generates the image, do a difference, i cant see how its possible to look identical, for me its a bit like night and day..

Maybe you need to put a CRT next to your JVC and some different DVD players deinterlacers, and scalers to check if your cant find some differences if you look realy hard and reallly long... Wink
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garyfritz




Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 12026
Location: Fort Collins, CO


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...or maybe he could just say "I love what I've got" and enjoy it!! Very Happy
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, what I meant to say is that upscaled/dinterlaced material on my new digital doesn't look any worse than it did on my CRT. phillyguy83 mentioned liking going to 720p instead of 1080p and the lack of artifacts on his CRT. I've never noticed any artifacts myself on my digital (or my CRT for that matter) from taking 480i to 720p, 1080p, or 1080i that look different on my digital vs previous CRT.

Yes, my CRT and digital look different overall, but there's nothing about the digital where it specifically has 480i upscaling issues. In other words, there's nothing about my old CRT projector that I miss when watching DVDs. There's nothing about a CRT projector that makes it 'better' for DVD than a digital projector. This is what I meant when I said "Sticking to CRT because of how DVD looks (IMHO) doesn't make any sense. There's nothing about CRT that makes DVD look better than digital."

Kal

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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Sorry, what I meant to say is that upscaled/dinterlaced material on my new digital doesn't look any worse than it did on my CRT. phillyguy83 mentioned liking going to 720p instead of 1080p and the lack of artifacts on his CRT. I've never noticed any artifacts myself on my digital (or my CRT for that matter) from taking 480i to 720p, 1080p, or 1080i that look different on my digital vs previous CRT.

Yes, my CRT and digital look different overall, but there's nothing about the digital where it specifically has 480i upscaling issues. In other words, there's nothing about my old CRT projector that I miss when watching DVDs. There's nothing about a CRT projector that makes it 'better' for DVD than a digital projector. This is what I meant when I said "Sticking to CRT because of how DVD looks (IMHO) doesn't make any sense. There's nothing about CRT that makes DVD look better than digital."

Kal


Unless someone prefer CRT.. and then DVD should also be prefered on CRT.

There are lot of artifacts combing and other isues with DVD scaling that most dont notice, when i first got my Radiance XS+ i was amased how bad DVD looked, after lot of testing i found out it has terrible deinterlacing compared to almost everything else, but if feedet with a progressive 480, or 575 it has the best scaling i have ever seen.

I asked about the Radiance deinterlacing on a Danish forum, and another Lumagen user, and a calibrator/ Lumagen seller told me it was just my unit, told them what movie what image, and where to look and none of them was able to see the same combing/ artifacts.

I was able to visit the other Lumagen user, who used a JVC projector, and was able to point out the combing / artifacts on exact same place as i had at home, he was able to see it clearly when i pointed it out, feeding the Radiance progressive from his oppo also solved the isue in his setup.

What im trying to say is, its ok you dont notice a difference, its just not usefull for others who are more sensible to artifacts, and gets anoyed from it.

We need to accept what we each prefer, and that some are more picky than others, and we cant just lower the standard to whoever claims that there is no difference.

So if someone say that DVD is better on CRT, and 720P is better then 1080P.. Then we have to belive it is so.. Even that we have never seen it, or the option to test it.

Lets make the most picky users set the ultimative reference, and those that dont care or cant see, have no need to hunt for the same reference.
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could very well be that there are artifacts and issues that I'm completely missing that someone else would see. I would suggest that anyone interested in switching from CRT to digital take a look at the specific digital model that they're considering and see for themselves and make their own decision.

Kal

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jbmeyer13




Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 1135



PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stridsvognen wrote:


Unless someone prefer CRT.. and then DVD should also be prefered on CRT.

There are lot of artifacts combing and other isues with DVD scaling that most dont notice, when i first got my Radiance XS+ i was amased how bad DVD looked, after lot of testing i found out it has terrible deinterlacing compared to almost everything else, but if feedet with a progressive 480, or 575 it has the best scaling i have ever seen.


Hey Kurt,

Aren't you feeding the Radiance a progressive DVD signal? My BD player outputs 1080p (even for DVD) and I'm not sure if I can see a reason why you wouldn't want to allow it to do that. Interestingly enough I agree with your sentiment on DVD; I used my Panny RP91 via Component into my HDQ and it looked about as good as my LD player Shocked I ran the same DVD through my BD player and it looked better in every possible way.

What are you using to upscale LD and other legacy interlaced sources?

Regards,

Justin

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km987654




Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 2857
Location: Australia

TV/Projector: Barco BG809s


PostLink    Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:


Unless someone prefer CRT.. and then DVD should also be prefered on CRT.

There are lot of artifacts combing and other isues with DVD scaling that most dont notice, when i first got my Radiance XS+ i was amased how bad DVD looked, after lot of testing i found out it has terrible deinterlacing compared to almost everything else, but if feedet with a progressive 480, or 575 it has the best scaling i have ever seen.


Hey Kurt,

Aren't you feeding the Radiance a progressive DVD signal? My BD player outputs 1080p (even for DVD) and I'm not sure if I can see a reason why you wouldn't want to allow it to do that. Interestingly enough I agree with your sentiment on DVD; I used my Panny RP91 via Component into my HDQ and it looked about as good as my LD player Shocked I ran the same DVD through my BD player and it looked better in every possible way.

What are you using to upscale LD and other legacy interlaced sources?

Regards,

Justin



If your BD Player is outputing 1080p for DVD then the BD player is performing the scaling rather than the Lumagen or DVDO. I would have thought this was not ideal.
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stridsvognen
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jbmeyer13 wrote:
stridsvognen wrote:


Unless someone prefer CRT.. and then DVD should also be prefered on CRT.

There are lot of artifacts combing and other isues with DVD scaling that most dont notice, when i first got my Radiance XS+ i was amased how bad DVD looked, after lot of testing i found out it has terrible deinterlacing compared to almost everything else, but if feedet with a progressive 480, or 575 it has the best scaling i have ever seen.


Hey Kurt,

Aren't you feeding the Radiance a progressive DVD signal? My BD player outputs 1080p (even for DVD) and I'm not sure if I can see a reason why you wouldn't want to allow it to do that. Interestingly enough I agree with your sentiment on DVD; I used my Panny RP91 via Component into my HDQ and it looked about as good as my LD player Shocked I ran the same DVD through my BD player and it looked better in every possible way.

What are you using to upscale LD and other legacy interlaced sources?

Regards,

Justin


Its quite easy.. just use what look best.. Many BD players do a better job than old scalers and DVD players.

For DVD i use my Denon DVD A1XVA outputting 480/576P to the Radiance. Letting the HQV chip do the deinterlacing.

For Laserdisc i use my MSB LS2 player, feeding my Crystalio 2 coaxial, using its comb filter and deinterlacer, sending 480P to my radiance.

There are often lots of options in scalers like the DVDO Lumagen Crystalio and others that makes for a lot of mess if not set right, so its not just plug and play to use it this way, that might be a good reason that it often look better just using the DVD/BD player.
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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For anyone who may be interested, the bulb on my RS-55 reached what I felt was an unacceptable amount of dimming after 964 hours on the clock. The dimming only occurred during the very final hours (probably after 960) and the picture up until that time looked very nice. It should be noted too that I also had an unexpected power outage after 900 hours which probably contributed greatly to the bulb going bad. Other than that power outage I have been cooling the projector normally during shutdown after 1-2 hours of viewing

I happened to already have 2 new spare bulbs on hand and when I replaced the bulb the results were a dramatic increase of brightness and a great picture again just like it was new. I also notice new spare bulbs for this platform of JVC can now be bought for around $125 on Amazon now.

That being said I am still very interested in any information related to a possible upgrade to the newer DC bulb that Kal mentioned earlier in this thread. Is it just a difference in the bulb or is it a change to the power supply as well?
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ecrabb
Forum Moderator



Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RV, a couple of things I'm curious about on your dimming…

First, what size and gain screen are you using? Second, where is your aperture set, and did you try changing it after you noticed the lamp was dim?

I opened up my aperture the other day and realized I've probably been watching too dim of a picture lately. I left it a few clicks open, but I need to get my meter out and see where I am.

Regarding the lamps, the new models use a totally different lamp and power supply. There's nothing you can change or upgrade between generations of projector.

Also, on the $125 lamps on Amazon, from everything I've heard and seen, I'd stay away from those. While it's about 1/3 of the price of a new OEM lamp from an authorized dealer, they don't last nearly as long, and the performance is sub-par as far as drop-off and color rendition. From what I've seen, the only way to save any money is finding the correct Philips/Osram bare bulb and re-lamping your original housing. From the sound of it, you can do that for about half price, but you have to find the correct bulb form a reputable seller first. I'm probably not far off replacing mine, so I'll let you know what I found out.

Cheers,
SC
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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1. With so many bulb knock-offs and issues, I only go with real JVC bulbs. Yes, they're $400 or so but I'm not taking chances with something blowing up and doing thousands in damage to save a few bucks.

Kal

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RVonse




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 3049



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ecrabb wrote:
RV, a couple of things I'm curious about on your dimming…

First, what size and gain screen are you using? Second, where is your aperture set, and did you try changing it after you noticed the lamp was dim?

I opened up my aperture the other day and realized I've probably been watching too dim of a picture lately. I left it a few clicks open, but I need to get my meter out and see where I am.
I did not think to try opening the aperture nor do I have a meter. But the dimming was so significant you would not need a meter to notice.
ecrabb wrote:

Regarding the lamps, the new models use a totally different lamp and power supply. There's nothing you can change or upgrade between generations of projector.
Before I purchased my present RS-55, I attempted to fix a broke RS-40 from ebay that I bought on the cheap. The RS-40 turned out not to be practical to fix but while troubleshooting I learned some things about the power supply and lamp. JVC actually calls the lamp supply a ballast on their schematic and it is surprisingly very simple and small. On the 40, all it amounts to is a small switching power supply (like a laptop power supply) that is also controlled by a separate processor board with a few control wires. So it would seem feasable to me that a new lamp and power supply could be totally different as long as the control signals to it were compatible. And if JVC did not make the control lines compatible they sure could have. Or even if they did not make the control lines compatible, perhaps someone smarter than me can figure how to adapt them.
ecrabb wrote:

Also, on the $125 lamps on Amazon, from everything I've heard and seen, I'd stay away from those. While it's about 1/3 of the price of a new OEM lamp from an authorized dealer, they don't last nearly as long, and the performance is sub-par as far as drop-off and color rendition. From what I've seen, the only way to save any money is finding the correct Philips/Osram bare bulb and re-lamping your original housing. From the sound of it, you can do that for about half price, but you have to find the correct bulb form a reputable seller first. I'm probably not far off replacing mine, so I'll let you know what I found out.

Cheers,
SC
How many hours do have at this point?
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ecrabb
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Joined: 13 Mar 2006
Posts: 15909
Location: Utah

TV/Projector: JVC RS40, Epson 5010


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RVonse wrote:
I did not think to try opening the aperture nor do I have a meter. But the dimming was so significant you would not need a meter to notice.

I wasn't suggesting you need meter or should use one; I only mentioned it because I want to check and see where I really am without seat-of-the-pants ballpark guesses.

I have no doubt the dimming was significant, but the effect the aperture has on brightness is also very significant. I don't recall the actual amounts, and it depends on your throw distance, but where my projector is mounted, I'd say it nearly doubles brightness from aperture closed to aperture open.

RVonse wrote:
How many hours do have at this point?

I'll have to check, but I think I'm probably up around 900. Took me two years to get there. From the AVS thread on my projector, I recall most guys only getting around a thousand hours, so that's what I was expecting. Not the cheapest digital projector to operate, but that wasn't my primary goal.

I'll probably start searching for a bare bulb in a few weeks to see if that's an option. Failing that, I think I'll contact AV Science and just get a lamp from them. I'd like to replace mine while it's still usable; that way I can keep a used bulb on the shelf for an emergency spare instead of having $350 tied up for a couple of years.

Cheers,
SC
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jamsys




Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 152



PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My playstation 3 decided to die, and along with it all my settings... Does anyone have the best settings for the PS3 and JVC????

Help

Thx

Scott
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kal
Forum Administrator



Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Scott,

There are no "best settings" really.

Just make sure to match what you have in your JVC with what's in your PS3. In other words, make sure you match if you do 0-255 (full) or 16-235 (limited) in the JVC with the same in the PS3. Either will work equally as well. The two simply have to match.

Kal

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kal
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Joined: 06 Mar 2006
Posts: 17860
Location: Ottawa, Canada

TV/Projector: JVC DLA-NZ7


PostLink    Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kal wrote:
Update:

I've had my RS56 for exactly one year now.There's just over 1000 hours on it. It uses a newer bulb than the previous years models where some of the early bulbs had light output issues (bulbs dimming early/bulbs dying early). They supposedly fixed these issues by the third generation of bulbs, but my model uses a completely new bulb as many of you (know. It's one of the reasons I waited a bit to buy an RS56 instead of an RS55).

I run an 8 foot wide 16x9 screen with ~1.1-1.2 gain.

I run the projector in low lamp mode with the iris at -6 (range is 0 to -15 where 0 is open all the way) and have been tracking the light output using a light meter as the bulb ages:

Projector installed early January 2013.

Apr 14/2013 - 424 hours: 10.5 ft/L
July 23/2013 - 646 hours: 10.4 ft/L
Nov 19/2013 - 931 hours: 10.0 ft/L

Note: I'm kicking myself for not taking a bunch of measurements in the first 400 hours as I was curious how it behaved during this time. I did not however notice a massive light drop off in the first ~400 hours. I never felt I needed to adjust the iris during this time. On my next bulb (already purchased) I'll definitely measure it every ~100 hours or so.

At 931 hours I changed the iris from -6 to -5 and light output jumped up to 10.7 ft/L.

This 6.5% change in light output is barely perceivable. I notice it of course as I play with the iris but if someone was to choose one of the two iris settings and ask me which one it was, I could never tell.


An update to this: I'm now over 2500 hours and still running in low lamp mode but the iris has been opened up almost all the way but I'm still producing over 10 ft/L. The bulbs give the "warning" to replace after 2900 hours (if they make it that far) which I intend to do. So looks like I may actually get to the 2900 hour point and still be able to do 10 ftL or more on low lamp mode throughout the life of the bulb by opening up the iris slightly over time.

I've been very pleased with the stability of light output over time. With the rate we use the projector (a few hours/day) looks like we'll be able to do about 3 years per bulb while staying in the quieter "low lamp" mode - which I'm very happy with!

Kal

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