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Sony 1040Q repeated picture via HTPC
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Sony 1040Q repeated picture via HTPC Reply with quote


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I recently completed my first HTPC build, running Linux Mint 13 and all-new hardware except for the case and hard drive. I previously had the Sony 1040Q projector connected to my Marantz dvd player via the Composite cable (as I couldn't get the Audio Authority 9A65 box to work with Component converted to RGB, as discussed here ... yes, still dragging my feet on getting the Barco 708s fixed; absolutely terrified of trying to reassemble all those inaccessible connectors).

The problem I'm having is that the HTPC to projector connection is resulting in a double or triple image. Not ghosting, literally 2-3 images side by side. Two images at 640x480 and three images at 1024x768. I haven't gotten any responses to the original posting at AVSForum, so I figured I'd try the experts here. Smile

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438520/computer-to-crt-projector-connection-options

The connection is as follows:

computer
VGA splitter
- Sony CRT monitor (my only spare monitor)
- VGA extension cable to 5-BNC breakout to projector

Just in case the VGA splitter is the problem, I plugged my main monitor into the DVI port and the projector's vga extension straight to the DSUB port. That resulted in the exact same output. I suppose it's possible that the VGA to 5-BNC breakout cable is defective, but that seems unlikely, given that the picture looks correct ... just squeezed and needing adjustment.

Any ideas what could be causing it?

Dan
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your answer is on this page. See if you can find it.... Very Happy

http://www.curtpalme.com/PJSpecs_Sony.shtm
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, according to that link you posted on AVS, I already answered your question years ago....... Very Happy
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought I saw the answer, but I was reading the chart wrong... Is it because of the 10 Mhz bandwidth? If so, is that something I can tailor on the computer to match? (Tough to Google those items without just getting results for monitoring bandwidth.) I only have a 60 Mhz setting that I can access directly.

Dan
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your problem is your PC is sending 480P and the 1040 can not sync to it and so displays a double image. I don't think your PC can send a 480i signal which is the max for the 1040.
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I think I see what you mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/480p

There's no workaround to limit the resolution output by the PC? Maybe a separate video card that allows lower resolutions? I found this in a quick search, so it seems possible:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1423516/split-and-convert-component-video-480i

Dan
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Curt Palme
CRT Tech



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 24296
Location: Langley, BC

TV/Projector: All of them!


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You'd need a video card that does 320 X 240.
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curt Palme wrote:
You'd need a video card that does 320 X 240.


Good, so there is a solution. I don't suppose you'd have one of those lying around your parts bin? (Or a recommendation for a decent one to look for that is likely to be recognized by Linux.)

Dan

p.s. I finally found a box the right size for my Barco's tray, so that's one obstacle out of the way for eventually shipping it to you for repairs. Very Happy
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkap wrote:
Curt Palme wrote:
You'd need a video card that does 320 X 240.


Good, so there is a solution. I don't suppose you'd have one of those lying around your parts bin?

Dan Very Happy


I do but you'll need a 386 with and ISA slot and at least 1 meg of ram to plug it into Laughing

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AnalogRocks
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Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OR

One of these ( cheap-ish ) converter:
http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-VGA2NTSCPRO-Converter-Remote-Control/dp/B00006B8EH/ref=sr_1_20?ie=UTF8&qid=1353381038&sr=8-20&keywords=VGA+to+s-video+scaler

OR the more expensive one:
http://www.amazon.com/Atlona-VGA-To-Component-Composite/dp/B000O5GIFM/ref=sr_1_22?ie=UTF8&qid=1353381369&sr=8-22&keywords=VGA+to+s-video+scaler

Do some research and read some reviews on these before buying.

Your other option is to find an older video card with S-video out that works in your newer motherboard (PCIe16x? slot)
However most of the S-video stuff I've owned was AGP slot.

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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been playing around with xrandr, which seems promising on the surface. It shows a 320x200 minimum for the monitor, and after trying a few different things, I succeeded in getting an 320x240 entry added. I couldn't get the command line stuff to load it as a default, but going back into the GUI for monitor settings that option appeared. Unfortunately, when selecting it I lost all signal to the monitor and the projector doesn't show any picture, so I'm unable to set it back now. :/ I guess I'll have to hook up a DVI monitor and hope that it still has a workable default resolution, otherwise I'm not sure how to recover things, let alone move ahead...

Dan
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ooooo you have entered a scan rate that's too low for your monitor to display. That's why an external box is better in this application.
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macgyver655




Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 8508



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkap wrote:
Unfortunately, when selecting it I lost all signal to the monitor and the projector doesn't show any picture, so I'm unable to set it back now. :/ I guess I'll have to hook up a DVI monitor and hope that it still has a workable default resolution, otherwise I'm not sure how to recover things, let alone move ahead...

Dan


I think if you go into safe mode you can change the resolution back but I haven't directly tried it. I'm to lazy right now.
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, it was an easy recovery this morning. Apparently, xrandr changes are only temporary and are lost after reboot unless xorg.conf is configured, so my additions were gone and it reverted back to the monitor's 1024x768 default. Now I'm back to square 1. Smile

AnalogRocks wrote:
Ooooo you have entered a scan rate that's too low for your monitor to display. That's why an external box is better in this application.


It sure looked like it can accept resolution down to 320x200 and scan rate down to 6 Mhz, according to the xrandr info... I think the bigger problem is that I had setup errors I couldn't figured out, so even though the 320x240 was selectable in monitor configuration, it wasn't fully functional.

Dan
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slightly off the original topic, but I was starting to get my stuff organized today for finally sending the Barco 708s projector [board] in to Curt for servicing, figuring that'll be the much easier configuration (I have a DVI monitor in place now, so I can run the same 1280x1024 signal to both the monitor and projector and not have to fuss around any more with modified mirroring setups in Linux, plus no VGA splitter to potentially confuse things), but I'm curious if I'll have a problem going that route, too.

I was planning on ordering one of several similar VGA to Component cables at the same time so I'll have it by the time the Barco is ready to reassemble, but then I ran into several warnings such as, "Your display system must support component video (Y, Pr, Pb) signal output function in order for the image to display properly."

Will the HTPC output a component-compatible signal? My original assumption was that the necessary signal is there simply by connecting the corresponding VGA pins to the red, green, blue, and sync lines of component.

Dan
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 26690
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkap wrote:
Slightly off the original topic, but I was starting to get my stuff organized today for finally sending the Barco 708s projector [board] in to Curt for servicing, figuring that'll be the much easier configuration (I have a DVI monitor in place now, so I can run the same 1280x1024 signal to both the monitor and projector and not have to fuss around any more with modified mirroring setups in Linux, plus no VGA splitter to potentially confuse things), but I'm curious if I'll have a problem going that route, too.

I was planning on ordering one of several similar VGA to Component cables at the same time so I'll have it by the time the Barco is ready to reassemble, but then I ran into several warnings such as, "Your display system must support component video (Y, Pr, Pb) signal output function in order for the image to display properly."

Will the HTPC output a component-compatible signal? My original assumption was that the necessary signal is there simply by connecting the corresponding VGA pins to the red, green, blue, and sync lines of component.

Dan


Those VGA to Component cables are only for video cards that support it. Most of the new ones don't.
VGA and Component signals aren't compatible. You'll end up with an all green picture.
Why do you want to run component? Just use a VGA to RGBHV cable and call it a day.

Oh yeah. You won't run DVI to the projector what you will usually end up with is a DVI-I port ( both analog and digital are available on the DVI-I port )with analog RGBHV out. Your computer monitor is looking for DVI-D ( digital signal ) unless your monitor supports anlalog in via the DVI port. It's a little confusing.

Read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface

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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnalogRocks wrote:
Those VGA to Component cables are only for video cards that support it. Most of the new ones don't.
VGA and Component signals aren't compatible. You'll end up with an all green picture.


Crud. How do you tell if component is supported? Is there a term for it (like "IEC958" for digital audio) to look for in the specs?

Quote:
Why do you want to run component? Just use a VGA to RGBHV cable and call it a day.


The Barco 708s takes component (or composite or s-video), not RGBHV...

Quote:
Oh yeah. You won't run DVI to the projector what you will usually end up with is a DVI-I port ( both analog and digital are available on the DVI-I port )with analog RGBHV out. Your computer monitor is looking for DVI-D ( digital signal ) unless your monitor supports anlalog in via the DVI port. It's a little confusing.


Yes, you confused me with that paragraph. Smile I'm familiar with the DVI stuff, but I'm not sure what you were referring to there... My computer outputs DVI-D only, not DVI-I, but the projector connection (VGA to ?) is the issue, not the monitor.

Dan
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like I need to go this route:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/327755-33-video-card-component-ypbpr

Dan
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkap wrote:
AnalogRocks wrote:
Why do you want to run component? Just use a VGA to RGBHV cable and call it a day.


The Barco 708s takes component (or composite or s-video), not RGBHV...


I was mistaken there. I was looking over this page and Curt wrote, "Some projectors such as certain Ampros and Barco 70x units use four cables: One for each color and one for both the H and V sync signals. This is referred to as 'RGBs' or RGB with composite sync." I slapped my forehead when I remembered the Barco has a 4th "S" input which is Sync.

So, maybe I could make do with the current VGA to 5-BNC cabling for the Barco once repaired? I would just have to figure out how to get the H and V sync onto a single input. Neutral But even for that, it appears I would need a separate interface. From the Barco manual:

"RGB analog input terminals with composite sync input or with sync on green. The projector detects automatically where the sync signal is located. Always use an interface when a computer and local monitor have to be connected to the projector."

The diagram shows VGA output running from the computer to the interface (several example models given, such as R9828079), with a VGA cable back to the monitor and 4-BNC out to the projector.

Also, I've been unable to find a clear answer to whether using the s-video TV-OUT on a video card limits the Component adapter to s-video's 480i. Any ideas?

Dan
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dkap




Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 109



PostLink    Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dkap wrote:
Also, I've been unable to find a clear answer to whether using the s-video TV-OUT on a video card limits the Component adapter to s-video's 480i. Any ideas?


I think I may have found a definitive answer to that question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-Video#7-pin_mini-DIN

"The three extra sockets may be used to supply composite (CVBS) or an RGB or YPbPr video signal..."

If RGB/Component is supported via separate pins, then it makes sense that the adapter would not be limited to s-video's 480i. The next trick is figuring out which video cards output RGB and which output Component.

I see lots of CD453 ATi Radeon X600 cards available, but the only info I can find on them is "7 Pin TV-Out." Additionally, this looks like the perfect cable, but it specifically states it isn't for ATI cards. I can't find a comparable cable for ATI, other than this or this (8-pin and colored as composite A/V).

Dan
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